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Cybru & Philippe Van Parijs : producers v consumers ?

 
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dai



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:28 pm    Post subject: Cybru & Philippe Van Parijs : producers v consumers ? Reply with quote

CYBRU

I've heard rumour of a plot :_To automate The Welsh - a lot !_To replace us - every single one -_So that every job will soon be done_Obediently by some robot ... Automata will drive to work_& their duties they won't shirk_To put themselves in deepest debt_& they never ever will forget_To ensure robot bankers get their perk ... Their bosses will be robots too -_But more expensive models ( true ! )_Whilst the sales staff for the goods they make_Will be cheaply made ( for economy's sake )_& their customers will all look like - " R2-D2 " ... Our children will be taught in schools_To be obedient to these rules_" You are programmed to obey -_You must not question what we say -_For your robotic teachers are not fools ! " ... Each child born into this new Wales_- & micro-chipped despite their wails -_Will become a model subject_- & those that won't they will reject :_They'll re-process each one that fails ... Now I hesitate to make this point -_But I think that something's out of joint :_This rumour may indeed be true_But it seems to me they'll be few_Bugs in their programme which will disappoint ... dai repwblic - Dai Saw - David B Lawrence - the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !

CYBRU

I've heard a rumour of a plot :_
To automate The Welsh - a lot !_
To replace us - every single one -_
So that every job will soon be done_
Obediently - by some robot ...

Automata will drive to work_
& their duties they won't shirk_
To put themselves in deepest debt_
& they never ever will forget_
To ensure that robot bankers get their perk ...

Their bosses will be robots too -_
But more expensive models ( true ! )_
Whilst the sales staff for the goods they make_
Will be cheaply made ( for economy's sake )_
& their customers will all look like - " R2-D2 " ...

Our children will be taught in schools_
To be obedient to these their rules_
" You are programmed to obey -_
You must not question what we say -_
For your robotic teachers are not fools ! " ...

Each child born into this new Wales_
- & micro-chipped despite their wails -_
Will want to become a model subject_
- & those that won't they will reject :_
They'll re-process each one that fails ...

Now I hesitate to make this point -_
But I think that something's out of joint :_
This rumour may indeed be true_
But it seems to me they'll be few_
Bugs in their programme which will disappoint ...

dai repwblic - Dai Saw - David B Lawrence - the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !


[ I often pace around reciting these from the phone before I send them - but exactly how I declaim them can change afterwards and I now happen to have begun to doubt this ' the ' - and whilst I am about it, in the original I took out this ' a ' and now I am doubting that too ... and what about putting ' their ' in there and ... look : just pick the version YOU like ! ]

& one response to my textrick proem above was -

Look up Philippe Van Parijs, Lawrence. He argues that because of increased use of robots and concomitant (spelling) loss of gainful employ there should be an EU-wide citizen's wage (not introduced in just one country as it would make it too migrant-attractive!! It has to be EU-wide

So very briefly - and hopefully I will come back to this to write a bit - I'll look up Mr - uh ?

Philippe Van Parijs: Real freedom for all with a basic income -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsmYN1Y_jgo

http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/0198293577.001.0001/acprof-9780198293576

Real Freedom for All: What ( if Anything ) Can Justify Capitalism ?

Philippe Van Parijs - 1997 - Print ISBN-13: 9780198293576


What is a just society? It is a society in which the real freedom to do whatever one might wish to do is fairly distributed among all. This conception of social justice combines freedom, equality, and efficiency. It justifies granting to each citizen an unconditional basic income at the highest sustainable level consistent with two conditions: respect for everyone's formal freedom and an appropriate level of resources target at the less able. Is such an unconditional basic income not a recipe for exploitation of the hard workers by the lazy? Not in any sense that makes exploitation intrinsically unjust. Can a higher unconditional basic income be sustainably achieved under capitalism than under socialism? There are empirical and theoretical reasons to think so. But only the effective presence of such a powerful and liberating distributive mechanism can justify capitalism.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Van_Parijs

Philippe Van Parijs ( French: [filip vɑ̃ paʁɛjs]; born 23 May 1951 ) is a left-libertarian Belgian philosopher and political economist, mainly known as a proponent and main defender of the basic income concept and for the first systematic treatment of linguistic justice. ...

... In Real Freedom for All: What ( if anything ) can justify capitalism?(1995) he argues for both the justice and feasibility of a basic income for every citizen. Van Parijs asserts that it promotes the achievement of a real freedom to make choices. For example, he purports that one cannot really choose to stay at home to raise children or start a business if one cannot afford to. As proposed by Van Parijs, such freedom should be feasible through taxing the scarce, valued social good of jobs, as a form of income redistribution. ... Another part of Van Parijs' work is about linguistic justice. In order to address the injustice arising from the privilege enjoyed by English as a global lingua franca, he discusses a wide range of measures such as a language tax which would be paid by English-speaking countries, a ban on the dubbing of films, and the enforcement of a linguistic territoriality principle that would protect weaker languages.

Van Parijs's work is sometimes associated with the September Group of analytic Marxism, though he is not himself a committed Marxist.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

... mmm ... and now I have to concoct an argument to connect my poem with Van Parijs ... ho-hum .... the thing about my poem " Cybru " is that it portrays a society in which there is no coincidence between those who produce and those who consume ... which potentially presents the problem in a novel way - or rather a way that has not been visible for nearly a hundred and fifty years but is now becoming visible again as the number of cases being uncovered is now multiplying : the problem of slavery.

You can view slavery in economic terms e.g. the way in which Ancient Roman and Athenian citizens enjoyed their leisure to pursue politics and philosophy was more or less because all women and most men were enslaved to produce the things which they consumed ... but you can also view slavery in terms of empathy : what enabled these citizens to enslave others is contained in that word " others " - these were not Altruists but Ultraists who drew a boundary around themselves and placed " others " beyond it ... in other words slavery is the inevitable consequence of Democracy because Democrats do exactly this and constantly : Democracy is based upon the idea of dividing society into contending parties and in the contention those of other parties are denigrated and thought the less of and then even the lesser of and then the least of until they are not thought of at all ... because those who have obtained power over the state will use it to pursue their own sectarian interests and therefore in order to maintain their own continued control of the state they will be compelled by the logical consequences of Democracy to exclude those in minority groups from possessing any political rights at all and will thus steadily dispossess them of their economic rights until such a point that they will be de facto slaves and the property of those who control the state - yet the Democrats will present the situation which they have created as being one of poverty stricken ingrates being dependent upon the largesse and generosity of those who control the state - of those who have in fact enslaved them.

Now it seems to me at first glance that Philippe Van Parijs is in fact offering to put a Democrat's gloss upon exactly such a process and that he is trying to explain away Europeans' mass dependency upon their welfare states as an opportunity not a calamity ... but what he proposes still leaves control of the economy in the hands of a very few ... and whilst I usually use the term Aristocracy to mean those who exercise coercion upon the rest of society through the use of economic means in this case these very few are going to be undoubtedly in a community which I would I term a Monarchy ... what Philippe Van Parijs proposes in maintaining everybody at a given level of income regardless of the economic circumstances is that the governments involved will contrive to control those economic circumstances in order to meet this demand ... Monarchies are notoriously economically incompetent and that is why they wage wars - they do not know how to promote productivity so they subsidise their economies and prolong their control of the state by subsidising this bread and circuses game by waging wars. Wars hold out the prospect of controlling the means i.e. simply stealing the means to subsidise declining economies, but also they are a great stimulus to economic activity of a sort in that they excuse the licencing of credit and the almost unlimited expansion of expenditure which prolonged wars involve.

That is my first response - I suppose that I may yet hope get around to reading around the subject of what Philippe Van Parijs' arguments actually consist of.
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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well to start with I will just Guggle with " Philippe Van Parijs robots."

http://www.basicincome.org/

http://www.basicincome.org/about-bien/

" Founded in 1986, the Basic Income European Network (BIEN) aims to serve as a link between individuals and groups committed to, or interested in, basic income, i.e. an income unconditionally granted to all on an individual basis, without means test or work requirement, and to foster informed discussion on this topic throughout Europe. ... "

http://www.basicincome.org/basic-income/

" ... Liberty and equality, efficiency and community, common ownership of the Earth and equal sharing in the benefits of technical progress, the flexibility of the labour market and the dignity of the poor, the fight against inhumane working conditions, against the desertification of the countryside and against interregional inequalities, the viability of cooperatives and the promotion of adult education, autonomy from bosses, husbands and bureaucrats, have all been invoked in its favour. ... But it is the inability to tackle unemployment with conventional means that has led in the last decade or so to the idea being taken seriously throughout Europe by a growing number of scholars and organizations. Social policy and economic policy can no longer be conceived separately, and basic income is increasingly viewed as the only viable way of reconciling two of their respective central objectives: poverty relief and full employment. ... "

http://www.basicincome.org/news/2015/08/uk-jeremy-corbyn-richard-murphy-and-basic-income/

" UNITED KINGDOM: Jeremy Corbyn, candidate for Labour Party leader, recruits Basic Income advocate to draft economic plan ... ... Although Corbyn himself hasn’t spoken on basic income yet, there have been some speculations as to whether he could possibly support the idea — namely: ‘Why Anti-Austerity Needs The Basic Income: SNP, Jeremy Corbyn?’ and ‘Universal Basic Income: How the Labour Party could stand up for workers, help the poor and be pro-business’. ... It is good news for basic income supporters that Richard Murphy is involved in drafting Corbyn’s economic policy. ... Murphy, an economist at Tax Research UK, is also an advocate of basic income and co-author ( with Howard Reed ) of ‘Financing the Social State’ (pdf), which recommends the implementation of basic income in the U.K. This policy paper was published in 2013 by the Centre for Labour and Social Studies. ... "

OH ... OK ... no wonder so many of my friends are talking about The Basic Income ...

http://www.basicincome.org/bien/pdf/Flash75.html

BIEN

BASIC INCOME EARTH NETWORK

News Flash Volume 27, no. 75, July-August 2014

[ If you would like to be added or removed from the subscription list, please go to: http://www.basicincome.org/bien/subscribe.php ]

" This is the newsletter of the Basic Income Earth Network (BIEN), which was founded in 1986 as the Basic Income European Network and expanded to become an Earth-wide Network in 2004. It serves as a link between individuals and groups committed to or interested in basic income. It fosters informed discussion on this topic throughout the world."

[ I find this to be very dry reading - where on Earth are these robots ??? And none of those video links leads to the explosion of aliens ... whatever Nigel Farage might allege ... there is in fact far too much to take in during a single brief session with this one newsletter ... my eyes are already sore and my brain is aching even before I have finally even clicked upon anything ... ah ... here is some stuff about robots taking our jobs ... well other people's jobs - they can not have mine : my job is surely far far far too important to be being done by an illiterate arse like me ... I can not help but feel that I am writing like a robot recently - and now my batteries are clearly flat ... a cigarette break perhaps before I try to face up to this ? ... ]

Federico Pistono, Robots Will Steal Your Job, But That's OK: How to Survive the Economic Collapse and Be Happy.

PUBLISHER’S SUMMARY: You are about to become obsolete. You think you are special, unique, and that whatever it is that you are doing is impossible to replace. You are wrong. As we speak, millions of algorithms created by computer scientists are frantically running on servers all over the world, with one sole purpose: do whatever humans can do, but better. That is the argument for a phenomenon called technological unemployment, one that is pervading modern society. But is that really the case? Or is it just a futuristic fantasy? What will become of us in the coming years, and what can we do to prevent a catastrophic collapse of society? Robots Will Steal Your Job, But That's OK: How to Survive the Economic Collapse and Be Happy explores the impact of technological advances on our lives, what it means to be happy, and provides suggestions on how to avoid a systemic collapse.

One of the solutions discussed in this book is an unconditional basic income (a federal stipend guarantee).

Federico Pistono, Robots Will Steal Your Job, But That's OK: How to Survive the Economic Collapse and Be Happy, Second Edition. CreateSpace, January 14, 2014.

Federico Pistono, “Get ready, robots are going to steal your job.”

SUMMARY: This article argues that robots are replace a significant amount of human labor and concludes that government need to introduce new policies in response. “These can include tax reforms to provide a safety net for those who become unemployed, smaller government, programs to stimulate start-up innovation, sharing and open source and providing citizens with an unconditional basic income (a federal stipend guarantee).”

Federico Pistono, founder and CEO of the online learning start-up Esplori, is a computer scientist, activist and social entrepreneur. He is also the author of the book Robots Will Steal Your Job, But That's OK: How to Survive the Economic Collapse and Be Happy.

Federico Pistono, “Get ready, robots are going to steal your job.” CNBC, 9 Jun 2014

John Aziz, “Prepare yourselves for the robot economy revolution.”

SUMMARY: According to this article, “We are at the beginning of a tidal wave of new economic innovation and growth that will change the way we think about the economy forever.” The author concludes, “But on a rising tide of growth, it will be possible to redistribute wealth from richer to poorer, if the political will to do so exists. In fact, high levels of job displacement will probably make it necessary to do so, perhaps through the implementation of a universal income program, where the government taxes the owners of the robots, and pays each citizen a guaranteed basic income.” John Aziz is the economics and business correspondent at TheWeek.com. He is also an associate editor at Pieria.co.uk, and his work has appeared on Business Insider, Zero Hedge, and Noahpinion.

John Aziz, “Prepare yourselves for the robot economy revolution.” TheWeek.com, June 2, 2014.

John Aziz, “Could a robot do my job? Probably, but I'm still optimistic.”

SUMMARY: This article discusses technological unemployment and concludes optimistically, “If the economy is disemboweled by a lack of consumer spending, corporations fat off the self-perpetuating riches of automation and plentiful, cheap energy will likely be all too happy to support generous redistributive programs to support the spending of the hordes of out-of-work people, like a universal basic income.”

The author, John Aziz, is the economics and business correspondent at TheWeek.com. He is also an associate editor at Pieria.co.uk. Previously his work has appeared on Business Insider, Zero Hedge, and Noahpinion.

John Aziz, “Could a robot do my job? Probably, but I'm still optimistic.” TheWeek, May 20, 2014.


The Conversative, “Should the Conservative Party adopt a Negative Income Tax?”

[Josh Martin]

The author of this post begins by highlighting the issues with the current benefits system in the UK: it is too confusing, too complex, and too inefficient. Further, the recent emphasis on employment as the best route out of poverty has proven false. Research has shown that even full-time work cannot guarantee one’s financial well-being. The author then shows why the recently created Universal Credit will fail and why the ideal benefits system is a negative income tax that establishes a guaranteed minimum income (much like a basic income). This system will save the government money and will help ease the transition into an even more technological economy.

The Conversative, “Should the Conservative Party adopt a Negative Income Tax?”, The ConVersative, 7 July 2014.


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I have decided that this is the most interesting bit in BIEN's newsletter for me -

2. News about Basic Income from around the world

SPAIN: New political party that endorses BIG takes five seats in European Parliament

Podemos, a new Spanish political party that includes unconditional basic income (UBI) as one of its main economic policy objectives, has one five seats in the European Parliament. Organized barely three months before elections for the European, the party seemed to come out of nowhere to a win nearly 8% of the vote (1.2 million votes) and finish in fourth place in the elections held on May 25, 2014.

Podemos (which means “we can”) grew out of the anti-austerity protest movement known as Indignados. It claims to be a party of ordinary citizens who desire a fundamental change in the political process toward greater democracy, freedom, and social protection. The Guardian quoted the Party’s leader, Pablo Iglesias, "It's citizens doing politics. If the citizens don't get involved in politics, others will. And that opens the door to them robbing you of democracy, your rights and your wallet." Party leaders promise to accept a salary of no more than three times the Spanish minimum wage.

The party also supports doing away with tax havens, a maximum salary, the reduction of the working week to 35 hours, more protection for workers against dismissal, and lowering the retirement age to 60. According to Global Voices, “The objective [of Podemos] is to dismantle the austerity measures put in place by the different governments that have been in power. To strengthen and increase citizens’ rights to political participation, education, housing, health and the fight against corruption are the core elements of the party's programme.”

For more on Podemos, see the following articles:

Thomas G. Clarke, “How the rise of Podemos in Spain should be an inspiration for the progressive left in the UK.” Another Angry Voice. May 28, 2014

Ashifa Kassam, “Podemos hopes to cement rise of citizen politics in Spain after election success.” The Guardian, 27 May 2014

Cristina Flesher Fominaya, “‘Spain is Different’: Podemos and 15-M.” OpenDemocracy. 29 May 2014

Elena Arrontes. “The Rise of ‘Podemos’ in Spain, the Citizen's Party.” GlobalVoices. Translated by Kitty Garden, 1 June 2014
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dai



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The role of robots in society is a popular subject at the moment -

FUTURE PROOFING - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b068xjtj

- there is a part of this which discusses the implications of robot technology eg if robot taxis roam the streets and a child is knocked down who is legally responsible ? One answer volunteered is that nobody is, that they are like wild animals : if you were bitten by a fox nobody is responsible for that ? ... But what if you were bitten by a domesticated dog - surely the owner is responsible for controlling it ? ... Surely the person who wrote the programme is responsible for the consequences ... but what if what they create is a self-writing programme which changes in an unforeseeable way ? ... Those are future problems but right now the stocks and shares markets are now driven by automated programmes : one unexpected sequence of decisions could result in the automatic collapsing a country's economy ... even if you could establish culpability what would you be able to do about it : you can not reverse the consequences ... likewise look back at the history of economic decisions made in Westminster and their consequences for Wales : our economy has been thirty or more years bankrupt since the miners' strike ... if our society collapses economically the country might recover in time but our society will not : the society that presently exists will be scattered and the country will later be taken over by another society which will not be Welsh but will simply be occupying the same geographical area labeled " Wales."
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