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Edward I : trashing the Welsh by cashing in the Jews

 
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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2637

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:31 am    Post subject: Edward I : trashing the Welsh by cashing in the Jews Reply with quote

I'm really not sure how to present this : I was doing a bit of speculative reading around the subject of why the Medieval Jewish Community in Wales were apparently concentrated in North Wales amongst what had amounted up until about 1282 as the last scrap of " Cymry Rydd " holding out in Gwynedd. This poses an intriguing possibility : that the Jews had found their way there because England was so bloody awful for Jews at this time - literally bloody : on a smallish scale, there was a sort of prolonged Medieval English Holocaust going on -

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[ Perhaps singularly the worst event, but in fact the worst anti-semitic atrocity was Edward I having some 300+ hanged.]

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/centuries-later-york-comes-to-terms-with-the-worst-anti-semitic-attack-in-britain-1.418904

Centuries later, York comes to terms with the worst anti-Semitic attack in Britain

Now, 822 years after some 150 Jews were massacred in York's Clifford Tower, a commemoration hopes to dispel the myth of the Cherem of York – the prohibition of resettling the city since the mass-murder. ... Eight hundred and twenty-two years after some 150 Jews were massacred in York's Clifford Tower, the most comprehensive commemoration of the worst anti-Semitic attack in the British Isles will take place today (Friday) in England's ancient Capital of the North. The event will be the culmination of an academic project chronicling the York Massacre using advanced technology and dispel, the organizers hope, one of the most pervasive myths of Anglo Jewry, that of the Cherem of York – the prohibition of resettling the city following the mass-murder of its Jews. ... ... The York Massacre was just one of a wave of anti-Jewish riots that began eight months earlier at the coronation banquet of King Richard I, when a group of Jews who arrived to pay their respects were forbidden entry. Despite being under the King's protection, the Jews who had prospered for over a century as money-lenders, became the target for attacks by local noblemen who were anxious to wipe out their large debts. Murderous attacks began in London and spread to other Jewish settlements throughout England. ... .... The riots reached the northern towns of Norwich, Lincoln and Stamford in March; homes of Jews in York were attacked, forcing the 150 Jews of the town to take refuge in the royal castle. But as there was no force defending the tower, and the local knights and clergy were leading the attack, the Jews preferred to kill themselves rather than accept forced baptism. Those who did not commit suicide were killed when the castle was set on fire. ... ... The rioters next burned all the records of the Jews financial affairs, thereby absolving them of their debts which would have been payable to the King following the death of the Jews.

[ AND THAT WAS OVER ONE HUNDRED YEARS BEFORE 1282 - SO YOU CAN GUESS WHY SO MANY JEWS PREFERRED PORTHCAWL - YET ENDED UP RETIRING TO RHYL ? ]

[ HERE ARE SOME GOOD FACTS IN A BADLY WRITTEN WEB-PAGE - http://www.pjcea.org.uk/newsletter/2008/0804/0804ahc.htm ]

I was looking for some web-pages describing the less famous incident which I find more upsetting where a family were dragged out of their home and ' baptised ' and murdered in one go by stuffing them one by one headfirst down a well, to die by drowning one crushed one upon another : what must it have been like to be upside down struggling for air with your children dying beneath you whilst others are being forced down upon you, down onto them, from above you ? Forget the idea of this being done by " Christians " to " Jews " and get your head around the fact that these things are done by " some other people " to " some other people " - i.e. think in terms of " some German people " killing " some German people " and get to grips with the fact that " the Nazis " are not pantomime nasties invented by Hollywood but their equivalents are all around us - and then get to grips with the fact that every single one of us belongs to some kind of minority by which we can be identified by others for their purposes of their licensing criminals to do their violence to us for their ends, typically to liberate us from any property or money that we may possess - and we do not have to possess much, so long as " some other people " reckon that they can get away with it ! ... Look at that little old lady over there, she is looking back at us in a funny way - and she is talking in a foreign language ! - I bet she is ... Welsh ! - I bet ... she is a Nationalist ! - That means that she is a ... Nazi ! - Neo-Nazi-Nasties don't deserve to live ! - They certainly don't deserve to get a pension ... out of us ... who are so proud to be ... to be ... British !!! - AND BEING BRITISH MEANS .... UM ...ER ... HANG ON, NO - WAIT A MINUTE - I'VE NEARLY GOT AN EXCUSE ...UM ... ER ... WHATEVER THERESA MAY SAYS IT MEANS !!! - Whatever Theresa May ever says David Cameron always endorses, AND neither of them believe in our having our taxpayers' money being ripped off by these scumbag Neo-Nazi-Nasty-Nationalist-Taffy-Butty-Pensioner-Welfare-Scroungers --- let's take it back now !!! --- AND WE'LL KICK HER LITTLE DOGGY !!! ... ... ... ( and you didn't seriously think that any topic thread on Repwblic was going to be all about history - at all, at all ? ) ( You then have to insert your own Irish accent in there and devise an explanation for yourself as to how to justify that that is both funny in this context and not at all, at all, at all racist or imperialist or ... dull witted, mindless, moronic ... perhaps like Sacha Baron Cohen ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb3IMTJjzfo I just can't believe that he's actually one of the London Welsh ... Oh, well - yeah - maybe I can ... his lot were from Pontypridd I think originally, you know ... )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_My_Country_There_Is_Problem

NOW THIS IS QUITE SENSIBLY CAUTIOUS - http://www.jtrails.org.uk/whats_on/events/c-1175/jewish-bodies-found-in-medieval-well-in-norwich/

Jewish Bodies Found in Medieval Well in Norwich - The find of the remains of 17 sets of skeletal remains in a medieval well in Norwich is a dramatic discovery, particularly at it is now claimed that they are the Jewish victims of a medieval pogrom on the basis of DNA evidence and the known history of violence against Jews in the 12th and 13th centuries in Norwich and elsewhere. ... At JTrails, we look forward to seeing further detailed and hard evidence for these claims, which if verified, would constitute one of the most important finds in medieval Anglo-Jewish archaeology. ... However, the sensational conclusions that have been presented so far, seem to have been reached by some significant inferential leaps, vaulting large gaps in the physical evidence and by appeal to the negative stereotypical generalisation that the Jews were hated and attacked in the 12th and 13th century, even though the worst depredations on the community were largely after 1250 and many Jews in England could live an entire life-time without witnessing either murder or massacre in their own town. The archaeologists also make unhelpful comparisions of the Norwich finds to 'ethnic cleansing' in the 20th Century, when in fact persecution of Jews in the medieval period was for religious reasons - racial anti-Semitism was a 20th century creation. It hardly helped this impression when the archaeologists seemed keen to point out that one of the skeletons 'had a big nose and ears' which one supposes was to imply the Jewishness of the remains, by implicit appeal to Jewish stereo-types. ... [ I'm LAUGHING ... because this is much funnier than Sacha Baron Cohen - who could make up this kind of material ? ] ... It is important to point out that of 17 skeletal remains, only 7 returned DNA profiles, so we do not know what the origins of the other remains were. However, in the programme, the geneticist presenting the findings to the cold case team stated that 2 of the skeletal remains yielded DNA common in Europe at the time - that is to say they were in all probability local non-Jews, probably Christians. Of the 5 that were stated to be Jewish, the geneticist stated that 6% of the European population in this period had this DNA. At this time the Jewish population of England and Europe was only around 1% of the population, so the implication is that some non-Jews or Christians, had this DNA also. By the end of the programme, the cold case team has seemingly edited out all reference to the non-Jewish skeletal remains in a dishonest, misleading and exploitative summary of the evidence, which was presented as a certain and unchallengable conclusion. The emotional reaction shots of the 'community' at the end was deliberatley set up and staged by the producers who clearly had decided to create an effective, if manipulative conclusion to the documentary. "

Can you understand why I preferred to quote from this ? It is critical and it illustrates how we project things back onto history - and it is a nice web-site too, and not the usual Google-whack. I am interested in the comments made about DNA evidence there because of this curious business of there being Jews concentrated in the north of Medieval Wales i.e. apparently in what remained of " Cymru Rydd " before the final onslaught by Edward I. If you do the genetics of Great Britain, Brittany and Ireland there is not much in the way of variation : the idea of there being a ' Celtic Race ' which so many Americans are enamoured of has no more reality to the idea of there being an ' Aryan People ' - it is entirely possible for a black skinned person from Africa to be genetically more similar to a white skinned person from Wales than the latter is to one who looks almost identical to themselves who lives next door in Wales. Why ? Well there is something which does mark out Wales from Ireland, Scotland, England & Brittany - but not from Cornwall apparently : there is some DNA around in Wales which identifies a proportion of the population as the descendents of people who supposedly arrived from North Africa in what is taken to be pre-historic times. The same DNA is found in pockets all the way along the Atlantic coasts of Africa and Europe - pockets which suggest that this DNA was carried around by what may have been the Phoenicians and you know who traveled with them : Jews ! There is no need to do a lot of history to get the point : we are all in this together, we always will be - and we always were : so let us just sit back and enjoy the whole thing, and let us not be too fussed as to who begat what, why or when ... but let us be entertained by a few of these things ... and use what we can learn from them to generally improve our ways of thinking ?

http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/11720

http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/24175

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YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A LOUSY INTRODUCTION : I WAS ROOTLING AROUND AND MADE SOME NOTES - JUST NOTES - AND A FRIEND STUCK THEM UP SOMEWHERE - ABOUT WHY THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SO MANY JEWS IN MEDIEVAL NORTH WALES, IN " CYMRU RYDD " - IN " LLEWELYN'S LANDS " - SO I'LL JUST SLAP THEM AS THEY ARE INTO THE NEXT POST ... you will take note of how rough these are ?


Last edited by dai on Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly, I'll try to chop the original emails back up into their constituent bits ...

From:
To:
Subject: ' The following person has been ascertained to be Welsh and therefore as of Right - Royal ' / RE: THE
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 23:43:30 +0000

Dear Gethin,

that is a very nice photo - I just have to admire Cofiwn & Co for inspiring people to be interested in Welsh history & legend - and as you know, I like to mythologise a bit - provided that I make it obvious to others when I " whack it up " to entertain. I was speculating about the Gwladys / Gwynllyw myth being to do with the ( washer at the ford/warrior king ) thing.

I haven't been doing much historical in recent years but in line with my wrestling with my identity over the Israeli business, I wondered just earlier this evening whether there was any information out there on Jewry in Medieval Wales i.e. before the final conquest and crushing of Gwynedd after which they would have befallen the same fate as those living in England.

I thought that the most likely place to find Jews in 13c Wales would be in the south - but no, it seems that they found sanctuary in Gwynedd : with Llewelyn ? -

http://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/pre-1290/list_alpha.htm

Bala (6) Merioneth
Beaumaris (6) Anglesey
Conway (6) Caernarvonshire
Criccieth (6) Caernarvonshire
Flint (6) Flintshire
Harlech (6) Merioneth
Newborough (6) Anglesey
Rhuddlan (6) Flintshire

[ NOTE (6) - Towns, including some with archae , from which Jews had been excluded prior to 1290 - see - http://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/pre-1290/background.htm#archae - the " archae " were the accounts which the local Jews had to make to the Royal Exchequer : the Kings of England enslaved the Jews in England in much the same way that the modern mafia works.]

There are no write ups on that website for the individual histories of these : it could be that they are in garrisons ?

I predicted to myself that it might be Chepstow, Newport or Cardiff but the only South Wales Jews listed were -

Caerleon, Monmouthshire

If you have any ideas as to why there may have been a lot of Jews in medieval North Wales, I would be interested to hear.

I am not doing this just to provoke - I use this sort of thing to challenge those who want " Welsh identity " to made " easy."

We could make one straightforward innovation in " being Welsh " - since everybody, if given the resources, could probably prove that they are somehow descended from some Royal House and are therefore related to Prince Charles somehow - we should pass a law ( as soon as we get ' Y Repwblic ' ) that declares that everybody in Wales to be regarded as " Royal."

E.g. It would be a great boon to the tourist industry : we could cater for coach-loads of Brummies crossing Offa's Dyke and immediately acquiring " Royalty " for the afternoon and issue them with plastic crowns etc and certificates declaring them to be the Kings and Queens of places like Salop Street and Ainsley Avenue. All immigrants coming to live in Wales could then confidently expect a better experience than elsewhere because not only would they be treated like royalty they actually would be made so by the naturalization process. We could thus make Wales safer for Charles & Camilla, because here in Wales they would acquire the status of being just like everybody else, and so could relax and enjoy themselves ...

Perhaps you think that this is just too off-the-wall, but people love those fake geneology certificates which are printed out saying that two yellow crossed fingers on a black shield are ' The Armorial Bearings of the Jones-Jones ' - I bet you that a certificate declaring ' The following person has been ascertained to be Welsh and therefore as of Right - Royal ' will sell !

Regards,

David B. Lawrence

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From:
To:
Subject: A BIT MORE OF "NOT HISTORY" - "PRE-WRITE" - FW: there IS an historical bit in this - I will highlight it in yellow so that you can choose to ignore the rest - FW: ' The following person has been ascertained to be Welsh and therefore as of Right - Royal "
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 03:15:59 +0000

Dear Gethin,

" NOT HISTORY " - but notes towards a " PRE-WRITE " - perhaps ... I was hoping to dig up something more intriguing : at this period the Statute of Jewry 1275 ordered " Each Jew, after he is seven years old, shall wear a distinguishing mark on his outer garment, that is to say, in the form of two Tables joined, of yellow felt of the length of six inches and of the breadth of three inches. " People were variously walling other people up in houses or stuffing whole families down wells etc and I like to think that here in Wales things were a little better and I assumed that being opposite Bristol there would be Jewish communities in places like Chepstow and Newport because of their trade with Spain and Portugal. Seeing none listed on that JCR website in South Wales besides Caerleon but lots of locations recorded in North Wales - in what then remained of " Cymru Rydd " - intrigued me : were they castle-builders allied to Edward's invaders or refugees finding a safe asylum in Llewelyn's Land ?

Being sleepless I wondered whether I could do a little more research into what Welsh Jews were up to & on whose side ?

First of all it occurred to me that Edward 1st threw the Jews out of England and Wales in 1290 - having recently embarked on a very expensive castle building campaign in North Wales and so presumably he was owing somebody a lot of money.

Now you have probably heard of and not liked my argument that Llewelyn Olaf was not at all a popular man in Wales, so when Edward 1st waged war on Prince of Wales the first time round all he did in effect was lend his name to others who wanted to get Llewelyn off their backs as he progressively extended the territories that he held sway over. Most of those who fought Llewelyn in the first war were in fact Welsh and to begin with they were happy with the result : Llewelyn lost.

But they ceased to be happy when Edward 1st introduced into Wales the same legal reforms that were sweeping all before them in England : it was not that ' English Law ' was sweeping away ' Welsh Law ' but that both were being swept away by ' Edward's Law ' which secured more power to the king to make statute law i.e. to do as he pleased, in a way that Llewelyn as Prince of Wales could not do. So those who had previously fought with Llewelyn now became allied to him once more ...

... let me then imagine a possible scenario : Llewelyn has travelled south - he is way out of his comfort zone, and his own army is smaller than the combined forces of his temporary allies who are in fact old enemies who want him to see him killed in favour of other more popular claimants ... such as his own brother Dafydd ? ... Thus Llewelyn's army is not going to be encamped in the same place as the main army ( by the river, to hold the ford ) but in a position to the rear from where he then makes a visit to his allies and is thus fortuitously found by a very advanced detachment of the English army ...

... a small advanced detachment of the English army that is actually waiting in just the right place at just the right time and just between two Welsh armies that they are both supposedly very hostile ? It looks to me as if they knew exactly what they were doing and the " accident " of running Llewelyn through is merely a cover story : somebody Welsh arranged for Llewelyn to be murdered by the English army in order to avoid blame attaching to themselves, lest it harm their prospects ?

But why is Edward 1st hammering Llewelyn like this anyway ? Gwynedd in feudal terms is not a great conquest, Llewelyn was basically allowed to keep it after the first war because it was worthless : feudalism is an economic system which is driven by borrowing money to finance the means of making conquests. There simply is not enough money in the whole of Wales to finance Edward 1st's castle building campaign in Gwynedd - but there will be enough in the rest of Britain ...

In 1278 Edward 1st's monks at Glastonbury " discover " the graves of King Arthur and Guinevere in " Avalon " - and in 1284, directly after he had begun consolidating his conquest of Gwynedd with the construction of Caernarfon Castle's walls looking out over the straits looking suspiciously like the fortifications recently built in Constantinople looking out over the straits, he holds a great feast around a newly constructed round table in Winchester and he wears - Llewelyn's crown.

So arguably, Edward 1st was not just picking on the Welsh but had an astounding plan : he was claiming by right of conquest Llewelyn's inheritance as the last ' King of the Britons ' and then laying claim through that to an inheritance from King Arthur to not only the whole of the ' Kingdom of the Britons ' but also ultimately to an inheritance from Rome, to be the legitimate ' Roman Emperor in the West.' Hence Caernarfon was to be the ' Constantinople in the West ' and he was to be the counterpart to the Byzantine ' Roman Emperor in the East ' - eventually ... but he needed to hammer the Scots first !

Edward 1st had witnessed aristocratic rebellions against his father, a failed crusade - returning through Constantinople ? - and war and political intrigue on a continental scale in Europe : he knew that he was antagonising people and that within England he was surrounded by enemies without direct access to the sea. English people were relatively quiescent and his main foci of attention within Britain were in holding down the Welsh, waging war against the Scots - and preventing them receiving any aid from the Irish - and in extending the conquests in Ireland, if his bankers calculated it to be profitable ?

Is it feasible that Edward 1st as a man of action - not of mathematics - just found that his psycopathic sums didn't add up ?

I know that Jews were as likely to have been merchants and craftsmen as bankers, parts of an urban elite that inevitably would be found in towns - and most towns were built around castles - but given that every place name mentioned has an Edward 1st castle in it ( except Newborough - a walled town ? ) don't these records look as if Jews are building castles ?

Can it also look as if Edward 1st expelled the Jews because his wife died and there was nobody left to govern his insanity ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_I_of_England http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_of_Castile

" It has traditionally been argued that Eleanor had no impact on the political history of Edward's reign ... However more recent research has indicated that Eleanor may have played a considerable role in Edward's counsels ... Some of Edward's legislation, for example the Statute of Jewry and his approach to Welsh resettlement show signs of similarity to Castilian approaches. ... If she was allowed no overt political role, Eleanor was a highly intelligent and cultured woman and found other satisfying outlets for her energies. ... The queen was a devoted patron of Dominican Order friars [ ' THE BLACK FRIARS ' - THEIR ' BLACK ' INQUISITION WAS BY THEN OVERTURNING THE ' WHITE ' INQUISITION OF THE FRANSCISCAN FRIARS ] ... The queen's heart was taken with the body to London and was buried in the Dominican priory at Blackfriars in London, along with that of her son Alphonso.... negotiations for the marriage of young Edward of Caernarfon to Margaret, the Maid of Norway, heiress of Scotland, were hurried on ... Few later queens exerted themselves in economic activity to the extent Eleanor did, but their ability to do so rested on the precedents settled in her lifetime. ...

// EARLIER ON THAT WEBPAGE // ...

Her acquisition of lands was an unusual degree of economic activity for any medieval noblewoman, let alone a queen - and the level of her activity was exceptional by any standards: between 1274 and 1290 she acquired estates worth above £2500 yearly. In fact, Edward himself initiated this process and his ministers helped her. He wanted the queen to hold lands sufficient for her financial needs without drawing on funds needed for government. One of his methods to help Eleanor acquire land was to give her debts Christian landlords owed Jewish moneylenders. In exchange for cancelling the debts, she received the lands pledged for the debts. The debtors were often glad to rid themselves of the debts, and profited from the favour Eleanor showed them afterwards; she granted many of them, for life, lands worth as much as the estates they had surrendered to her, and some of them became her household knights. ... The surviving proceedings from this inquest reveal a pattern of ruthless exactions, often (but not always) without Eleanor's knowledge. Her executors' financial accounts record the payments of reparations to many of those who brought actions before the judicial proceedings in 1291

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_the_Jewry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Expulsion

" ... As special direct subjects of the monarch, Jews could be taxed indiscriminately by the King. Some have described the situation as indirect usury: the monarch permitting and encouraging Jews to practise usury and then taxing the profit. In the years leading up to the Statute, Edward taxed them heavily to help finance his forthcoming military campaigns in Wales, which commenced in 1277. One theory[citation needed] holds that he had exhausted the financial resources of the Jewish community when the Statute was passed in 1275.[1] ... "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_I_of_England#Finances.2C_Parliament_and_the_Expulsion_of_Jews

" .... Edward I's frequent military campaigns put a great financial strain on the nation.[163] There were several ways through which the king could raise money for war, including customs duties, money lending and lay subsidies. In 1275, Edward I negotiated an agreement with the domestic merchant community that secured a permanent duty on wool. In 1303, a similar agreement was reached with foreign merchants, in return for certain rights and privileges.[164] The revenues from the customs duty were handled by the Riccardi, a group of bankers from Lucca in Italy.[165] This was in return for their service as money lenders to the crown, which helped finance the Welsh Wars. When the war with France broke out, the French king confiscated the Riccardi's assets, and the bank went bankrupt.[166] After this, the Frescobaldi of Florence took over the role as money lenders to the English crown.[167] ....

Another source of crown income was represented by England's Jews. The Jews were the king's personal property, and he was free to tax them at will.[168] By 1280, the Jews had been exploited to a level at which they were no longer of much financial use to the crown, but they could still be used in political bargaining.[169] Their usury business – a practice forbidden to Christians – had made many people indebted to them and caused general popular resentment.[170] In 1275, Edward had issued the Statute of the Jewry, which outlawed usury and encouraged the Jews to take up other professions;[171] in 1279, in the context of a crack-down on coin-clippers, he arrested all the heads of Jewish households in England and had around 300 of them executed.[172] In 1280, he ordered all Jews to attend special sermons, preached by Dominican friars, with the hope of persuading them to convert, but these exhortations were not followed.[173] The final attack on the Jews in England came in the Edict of Expulsion in 1290, whereby Edward formally expelled all Jews from England.[174] This not only generated revenues through royal appropriation of Jewish loans and property, but it also gave Edward the political capital to negotiate a substantial lay subsidy in the 1290 Parliament.[175] The expulsion, which was reversed in 1656,[176] followed a precedent set by other European territorial princes: Philip II of France had expelled all Jews from his own lands in 1182; John I, Duke of Brittany, drove them out of his duchy in 1239; and in the late 1240s Louis IX of France had expelled the Jews from the royal demesne before his first passage to the East.[177] ... "


David B. Lawrence,

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From:
Subject: the fate of the Jews and the fate of the Welsh at the hands of Edward I - FW: A BIT MORE OF "NOT HISTORY" - "PRE-WRITE" - FW: there IS an historical bit in this - I will highlight it in yellow so that you can choose to ignore the rest - FW: ' The f
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 12:08:05 +0000

Dear Several Historical Persons,

THIS IS FOR LEISURELY READING ONLY : IT MOST PROBABLY REQUIRES A CHURCHWARDEN AND A SMALL DRY SHERRY ...

As you know I usually depreciate myself by " whacking up " my historical pieces to make people aware of the abuses of history - well, my abuses of history - but that is not to say that my abuse of history for my various ideological purposes is unfactualised. What tends to happen is that in my investigations into other things I come across interesting obscure facts that I tend to hypothesise about without having the time or resources ( or knowledge or discipline ) to think about properly.

So when I present an idea to others I am torn between saying " this is really interesting and perhaps somebody else could investigate it who is more responsible and careful than me " and saying " this is just political / religious entertainment ! "

I think that I was still a teenager when I first became aware of there being some connection between the fate of the Jews and the fate of the Welsh at the hands of Edward I " Longshanks " - but it is a murky memory and back then I was not doing what I am doing now, which is my looking for ways to illustrate an account of how patterns of religious and political ways of thinking are deeply connected. One example of that his hinted at below - the independent Welsh lords and princes were usually deeply allied to the Fransciscan and Cistercian orders, to the " White Inquisition " which challenged alternative beliefs systems within Christianity with a legal method which the later Republicans drew upon in opposing the alternative : the " Black Inquisition " of the Dominican Friars whose order became allied to the power of the papacy, which licensed the " Black Friars " to torture anybody who disagreed with whatever the Pope believed at that moment - and if they continued to assert that the Pope was wrong, then those people could be handed over to the secular authorities to be burnt at the stake. Even as late as the 18c they were burning Republicans as heretics for questioning their reasoning that this gentle Jesus, meek and mild, wanted suffering - for every child : the Dominicans had literally in previous centuries burnt children.

It was the way in which the Papacy was projecting its authority over the rest of the Catholic Church which led to the rise to power within the Inquisition of the Dominican Order, the " Black Friars," which unleashed anti-Semitism across Europe. This was because they were employed for the political purpose of promoting papal power as the chief indoctrinators of the faith to emphasise a strict conformity of religious belief and therefore obedience to the Pope. Thus the presence of other ways of believing was intolerable so the Inquisitors had to be tough not only on the heretics ( like the Cathars and Bogomils ) but also on the causes of heresy ( such as Jews and Muslims, previously simply ignored by the Inquisition ) and so naturally they were concerned to get control of the source of all these heresies and also the major seat of those other religion's authorities - Jerusalem ... hence the number of crusades against Moslems, Jews and above all those other most dangerous of peoples : the other Christians - the Orthodox Christians who were headquartered in Constantinople and their politics of tolerating a diversity of beliefs ... i.e. ... their version of Republicanism which belonged to the last phase of the eastern remnant of the Roman Empire ... which was still very wealthy and so very well worth sacking - several times over !

... Ah ... well, it all swills around in my head : but just think of how the " Black Inquisition " might have spilled over from England into Wales, and the possibility that Llewelyn's beseiged remnant of Wales was a refuge for those ruined by it - heretical Jews, a scattering Moslems visiting or as economic migrants from Lundy perhaps - and the last of the Druids of course, and possibly even a few early Quakers explaining their ambitions to found a colony in America to Prince Madoc ?

I don't know how to investigate it this one in any practical way : it requires Medieval Welsh, Church Latin and lots of time.

Regards

David B. Lawrence
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Moritz



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
than elsewhere because not only would they be treated like royalty

A Pub: the Guide says "They treat you like royalty in there."

There is a row of spikes with severed heads.
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dai



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was not " The Kings' Head " then ?
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