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marianneh



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:05 am    Post subject: Taj Reply with quote

The liberal imam Taj Hargey has publicly burnt burqas. He calls the burqa 'this cultural rag.' He says it is a 'vile' piece of cloth which imprisons women and has grave health risks.

He says it increases distrust and poses a security risk. He has no time for those who say it should be tolerated in the name of multiculturalism. He urges that it should be banned in Britain.

Taj Hargey tells us that the burqa was known in Iran and Byzantium a millennium before Islam even existed. Male potentates kept their women veiled as a status symbol. Their women did not have to work.

They were not just snobbish but controlling. Their attitude was that women were property.

Dafydd has mentioned that in Genesis, the burqa was the costume of a prostitute. Tamar's father-in-law though she was 'an harlot' because she was wearing a burqa and had veiled her face.
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dai



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that I should unveil Marianne as apparently the most popular writer on Y Repwblic in 2016 ...

http://weblisting.freetemplatespot.com/repwblic.informe.com

This domain's most popular links:

Y Repwblic :: Those whose Children lie upon the Stones

Y Repwblic :: Has Richard Dawkins lost it?

Y Repwblic :: Of Course the Famine was Genocide
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dai



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sort of sits well here but could be a separate discussion [ TEXT ]

Review debating Naked V Nude = http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/9583752/The-Naked-Nude-by-Frances-Borzello-review.html

After all what are clothes for ?

Are they just practical garments or symbols ?

I am inclined to believe that women make investments in their vestments with a view to men making investments in their divestments.
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:54 pm    Post subject: manet Reply with quote

I well remember this picture by Manet. The guy running the art classes in Abergavenny wanted me to imitate the pose struck by the pale nude in my capacity as a life model.


We couldn't manage the Nubian bystander or the cat though - and the cat wouldn't have kept still. Although you get agonising cramp at times, life modelling is a worthwhile and gratifying occupation.

You may have less than zero talent as an artist and be totally ignorant on the subject, yet you're contributing to artistic endeavour. You may be the least significant person in the room with nothing to say but everyone - yes everyone- is looking at you.

It's not for everyone. Some people think they can do it but break down in tears or run away when it comes to the point. Yet, paradoxically, it can be an excellent occupation for a shy person.

I've been taunted so much on my inferior leg, that I think most people doubt I have legs. It causes surprise if I wear anything that reveals them. 'People exclaim: ''Good God! You've got knees!''

But nudity is something else. People are concentrating on other things. The tutor said what a good model I was, not only because I could keep still but because I was so well proportioned. Some people apparently have upper halves which look as if they belonged to a different person from their lower extremities.

One artist surprised me by opining that I was 'rather gorgeous' although they must have much flashier models all the time, real beauties. Another one who kindly drove me to the station from the class in Cwmbran, assumed I must be mega confident. But the opposite is the case. It's probably the same for most life models.

Artists and tutors prefer female models as their bodies are often curvaceous and symmetrical in an aesthetically pleasing way. But of course, anyone can do it. Dafydd used to be a life model quite regularly.

Once he was talking about it to Roger in a pub. He didn't notice that the woman behind him was giving him disgusted looks.

Apparently some people objected to a church hall in Abergavenny being used for life modelling, and the classes were closed down. This is pathetic.

The artists have a matter of fact attitude. You might as well be two oranges in a bowl. This is a sensible attitude.

But you do sometimes get a prurient or disapproving reaction if you mention what you do to people who have never been to a life class. These people really need to grow up.


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dai



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But surely the " Naked V Nude " controversy is more or less about display in ways which have parallels in language e.g. not just swearing giving offence but the way that once normal words like " shit " and " cunte " are turned into unacceptable words in conversation and replaced by " polite " words like " pooh " and " fanny " which in the blink of an eye will be made " rude " - this is just about manipulating others in the same way that menstruation is referred to in so many coy ways and used to portray women in ways which shame and humiliate them.
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:54 pm    Post subject: euphonia Reply with quote

Euphemisms rarely remain euphemisms long. They will become associated with the proscribed things they are euphemisms for.

So new euphemisms will have to be coined. It's a disease of language. I'm not sure there's anyhing we can do about that.
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dai



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah - a notable answer which must surely elaborate upon with many digressions, allusions and short cuts to avoid long straight answers to ... You know that I am deeply annoyed when The Democrats in Wales and Westminster insist that The United Kingdom has " The Rule of Law " which they treat as nothing but a euphemism for making crimes legal ? ... Dafydd and I were arguing over " AC-DC " earlier and I wonder whether you have actually tried to read him : the bit on whether women should have pitical rights makes for a nice fit with your thread if you care to look at it -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._V._Dicey

http://www.constitution.org/cmt/avd/law_con.htm

... And surely preventing people wearing clothing by inferring that burkhas may have bombs under them etc is " hate speech " so - try this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hBATlxWuW5U

Brendan O'Neill - hate speech laws & censorship make people stupid

& does this go here too ? - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEQy515CyXU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aPwsPf6vpxw
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:28 am    Post subject: tesla or edison Reply with quote

We had to read some of the wit and wisdom of the unfortunately named A C Dicey while doing a law course. I thought his idea was that the British had an unwritten constitution, and that was great.

You could do anything that wasn't specifically prohibited. There was no law saying you could walk down the street, but there was a presumption that you could do that.

My law text books were rather stern about AC DC. They said that certain rights have been taken away from us which he was confident an unwritten constitution would preserve.

I'm afraid I can't remember the details but I can remember the irrelevant alleged fact that he was an extremely unco-ordinated young man who couldn't tie his own tie or shoe laces. I'm afraid I'm no longer a free speech extremist and have expressed disagreement with Brendan O' Neil on the Ella Whelan thread.

About language and how it is used, I think we can read too much into it. My real brother gets very annoyed when swear words are bleeped out on TV. He thinks it is censorship.

But we can all imagine what they are. You can't please everyone. There would be complaints if expletives weren't deleted.

On the euphemism subject, I don't think much of C S Lewis, but he was right to say there are some body parts and functions, you can only mention by being crude, clinical or resorting to baby language. On the thread where we speculated if there are swear words in Welsh, I confessed that Roger and I said 'biji-bo' for penis which is an example of baby talk.

Maybe one day we will grow up and say 'cal' or 'cala' which is what Dafydd ap Gwilym said.

I have become increasingly squeamish, and do wish a beloved friend wouldn't say ''I'm going for a shit''. If you dislike euphemisms, you could say something which hints at the full horror of it, while bringing in an amusing allusion to a historical or political event.

An obvious example is ''I'm going to bomb Dresden.'' This is not unproblematic.

People might not understand it. It is rather insensitive to people in Dresden.

I've recently been lamenting 'chaupadi' in Nepal rather turgidly. I can't say what I mean. The 'm' word sounds almost exactly like mensuration, something that requires a tape measure.

What if I said, ''I'm fulfilling Enoch Powell's prophecy about 'Rivers of Blood'''? They'd probably call the counter terrorism unit.

While staying with my real parents, who could be relied on not to understand, I would whine on the phone, ''O damo; mae misglwyf arna i!''

I have to snap out of this. After laying claim to the primal wound, I'm now claiming what Cymry call the month wound as well.

Let's pull ourselves together and look in a purely academic way at the words 'naked' and 'nude' which have slightly different connotations. 'Naked' sounds more passive, and 'nude' deliberate.

In a TV series and book on the English language in the 80s, an old man in Yorkshire describes swimming nude in the local stream - he probably called it the beck - as a boy.

He pronounced 'nude' in a Chaucerian way 'nood- uh' or 'nuddy.' This is just of academic interest.

Dafydd used to have a bit of costumery to set off his otherwise unadorned body when he was a life model. He might represent Poseidon or some other supernatural personality.

I was going to say that context is everything. Nudity is acceptable - at least in one person - in a life class. It's not appropriate in the high street.

But it's a bit hypocritical of me to say that. I discuss this further in 'A Guide for the Perplexed - About Exhibitionism.' Dafydd and I did once fall off the gold standard. Marcus was far from impressed.


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dai



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh - not working ... there was a Guardian article ... What I was thinking about was " laying ( a subject ) bare " - " the naked truth " - etc - implies to me that " naked " implies an act of uncovering whereas " nude " is just sort of there, voluntary perhaps ... " Nude " has fewer associations.

There has been this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-38473304
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:07 pm    Post subject: godiva Reply with quote

This woman didn't really lay bare the naked truth about her former friend,did she? It was more like ingenious lies.

If your so called friends have stolen from you or done something else illegal, that may be a serious situation you have to do something about. Otherwise, why get bogged down in variants on revenge porn? - not that it is porn in this case.

I had a friend I really believed I was extremely close to. But she appears to have had a personality transplant. She does have bipolar so it's not entirely her fault.

As I didn't enjoy being humiliated in front of everyone, I withdrew from the situation. Now I hear she's told everyone about how hurt she is that I've dissed her and her friends, but she hopes it can be resolved!

She's apparently also accused other people of doing whatever she has done to them, and most of her other friendships have also bit the dust, but it doesn't matter for her as her magnetic charm will always pull new people in.

I did feel like forcing a confrontation, when I heard that she'd been casting herself as the victim. But what's the point?

People have a right to reject you or to hate you. I don't think they have a right to lie about you, but there's not much you can do about it. And she might believe her own version anyway.

All you can do is briefly set out your own case to mutual friends, and otherwise move on.

Unfortunately, some books will give advice on revenge. It might be to send away for porn in the name of the targeted person, but asking for it to be sent to the next door address, so the neighbours will think, ''Ooh, So-and-So's a bit of a perv!''

We had an acquaintance who, long before the days of the internet, wanted us all to agree that it would be a good idea for him to send nude - and he said pornographic - pictures of his ex girlfriend to her parents.

To his disappointment, we all implored him not to do it. I also said, ''It's a criminal offence, sending obscene material through the post!''

''Oh yes!'' he breathed. I thought, 'It's a breakthrough! I've made contact!'

He concluded, ''I'll have to take them round by hand!'' This led to a storm of protest.

''How would they know it was me?'', he demanded. Liz said, ''I think they'd have a pretty good idea!''

I saw the picture accompanying the story about vengeful Benedikta, and thought, ''How odd! If I didn't know better, I would think that was Lady Godiva's statue in Coventry! Oh, it is!''

Perhaps, we shouldn't be coy about Dresden. There is a verb in German which is effectively to 'coventrate', to utterly destroy.

I have known an educated friend to go off towards the gents in a pub with the explanation, ''I'm going to storm the Iranian embassy.''

You just have to work out the meaning from the context. After all, it is sufficiently obvious that he can't really be going to storm the Iranian embassy.
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dai



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I understand the law - at least how it used to stand - it is not unlawful for a person to be view another person in a state of undress : it is about whether the circumstances result in public disorder by ( a ) a person spying on another who thought that they were undressing in privacy ( b ) a person undresses with a view to offending others ... in which case it may be a moot point as to whether a parent can allow a small child not of an age able to exercise social judgment to be naked on a beach etc ... I understand that that guy who was walking naked from Land's End to John Noakes was relying on that sort of argument : that he just happens to enjoy walking naked and does not do so in the various High Streets along the way with the intention of causing offence - the responsibility for the public disorder rests with those who take offence to this ... I am inclined to agree with this argument ... Given that on any weekend it is likely to be possible somewhere in Wales to view consenting adults drunkenly clothed saved for their flies open to be copulating in the doorways of various High Streets ...

... Almost inevitably tonight - Blwyddyn Newydd Dda ...
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:47 pm    Post subject: nat Reply with quote

Lady Godiva does look nice. But if you fell from horseback in that state, you could be badly hurt.

I fail to see the point of riding naked through the streets of Coventry or anywhere else if no one's allowed to watch. It defeats the purpose.

Douglas Murray has no particular sympathy for the naturist who keeps being arrested, and aspires to travel the length of the country au naturel. But he did say he was no more ridiculous than a Muslim woman who wants to be covered in a black bin liner.

I think we would have to accept that there's nothing inherently wrong with what he wants to do. It's just that society isn't ready, and maybe it never will be ready. If people don't want to see the show, it's a bit inconsiderate to force it on them.

We had a naturist who did life modelling in Abergavenny. I was asked if I minded appearing in a double bill with him.

I replied genially that of course I didn't mind. I didn't in theory.

Then I found out that the tutor meant immediately. I thought, ''What, now? Today?''

I felt a rising surge of panic. But it was ok.

We stood not touching but looking at each other as the artists sketched away.I just kept my eyes focused well above his waist. I was afraid that otherwise something awful would happen.

I'd go to pieces or the world would dissolve. The tutor and I were later talking about puritanical people who objected to nudity per se.

The tutor said the naturist was not paid for life modelling. He enjoyed it.

''I don't think he should be paid either!'', I exclaimed, ''If he actually enjoys it, why should he be paid for it as well?''

''You're being puritanical now!'', said the tutor, ''Why shouldn't people enjoy their work?''

After the abolition of the Lord Chamberlain's office, and the showing of the musical 'Hair!', in which Marsha Hunt's Afro was more photographed than her nudity,it looked as if we were at the portal of a new world. Maybe it was the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

A few years later, the judge in the Rupert Bear Obscenity trial looked round like a puzzled old dog, repeating, ''Fecking in the streets! Fecking in the streets!''

It wouldn't have done any harm if we had come to this. But it was not what people wanted.

We've had a sharp backlash I think. Recent case law indicates that it is a criminal offence to be nude or enjoy variants on sex, if there is even a theoretical possibility that you might be seen by a 14 year old boy.

People have recently hesitated to show imagery of the napalm girl from the Vietnam War, not because her pain is disturbing but because she was running naked down the street.

In this country, adults who have spied on people in changing rooms have gone to prison, but Donald Trump has admitted barging into the changing rooms of teenage beauty queens in the hope of seeing something interesting, and he's now going to be president.

One curious phenomenon is that older people will often complain to the police that if they climb on top of the wardrobe, and train a powerful pair of binoculars through the window, they can see their neighbour undressing.

A variant is a reader who wrote to a magazine to complain that with the help of a telescope he could watch people making out in cars some distance away, from his own window.

He shared a mathematical tally of the details, and claimed to be disgusted. The agony uncle didn't pull any punches. He said, ''You should see a psychiatrist.''

But these frustrated voyeurs, who think they are upstanding moral re-armament types, are only an extreme version of people who read exposes of other people's sex lives in the tabloids, to be disgusted and titilated at the same time.
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dai



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well herein lies the difference between Democracy and Republicanism in my mind - which can be imagined as the difference between the two legal systems : the contended and the inquisitorial, one about winning and utterly punishing the other side and ruining their lives and the other about deciding the truth of the matter, apportioning blame and trying to effect a reconciliation ... To me the point is that all belief systems - religious, political, philosophical or just Daily Mail - create their inherent understandings as ideologies so there is no point declaring one to be right and the other wrong - what is needed is an end to conflict in whichcase mutual understanding, a transcendent view, progress towards an agreed relationship so that even if harmony is not achieved toleration is achieved ... Which is what makes me rave against The Demockerats in Wales and Westminster who profess to agree to this sort of toleration but do not practice it even if they mean it e.g. " Of course we tolerate The People in Black - but of course they are not suitable for professional jobs and their attitudes make them unsitable for many sorts of employment and they would probably be happier at home in some sort of Black country like ... Dudley ? ... And they are all descendents of Elihu Burritt you know - foreigners !

For the benefit of The People in Foreign Places & Birmingham -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elihu_Burritt

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Country
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject: camouflage Reply with quote

I don't think the black country is black anymore. Some local butterflies evolved black spots on their wings for camouflage during industrialisation.

The spots have been bred out now. My adoptive grandmother grew up in Walsall in late Victorian times.

She was not at all remarkable but we saw her as a wonder because she was still alive in the space age, the time of video recorders and rubik's cubes but could remember hansom cabs, the Boer War and the time that everyone was wearing fancy dress as it appeared to us.

She didn't appreciate the 80s fashions she lived to see; they were just a variant on nudity, something it was necessary to grumble about.

My sister recounted that the old woman said she could remember running down the high street of Llanelli on the day Lloyd George brought in old age pensions.

''I think that's amazing'', she exclaimed. I thought it was amazing too. At that time, she had never been in Llanelli in her life. Perhaps she'd been on the gin again.

Even in the Victorian era, some people had thought we should be less buttoned up about dress. Constance Lloyd who later married Oscar Wilde, wrote for the Rational Dress Society. She recounted that a woman had been standing on a ladder washing a window at an upper storey, when she tripped over her long skirt and fell to her death.

I'm well aware of the danger of long skirts but am still committed to wearing them in practice as I am so ashamed of my legs or rather one my legs. My partner reassured me, ''Has it ever occurred to you that the reason people look at your legs and laugh, is that you can't be bothered to depilate them, and look like a gorilla?''

I was reading Kate Roberts' novel 'Traed Mewn Cyffion' in the original Welsh but turning to an English edition whenever I got stuck which was often. It was set between the 1880s and the First World War.

One word I decided not to remember was 'timpan'. I couldn't believe I'd ever need it. But perversely, it has stuck in my mind, and I can't forget it.

The equivalent in the English edition was 'bustle.' This was a roll of cloth that Victorian ladies wore under their skirts to make their bottoms look bigger than they were.

They may have been covered up but, unlike Muslim women, they weren't encouraged to be shapeless in public. Far from it; their fashions often emphasised an hour glass figure.

I'm not sure this was entirely a good thing. And it must have started long before the Victorian era.

Roger and I applied to be extras when 'The Libertine' with Johnny Depp was being shot on location in Crickhowell. Roger was thought to have an inappropriate beard for the century in question but the film makers were impressed by my eyebrows as I'd so obviously never made any attempt to prettify them.

They were the most untamed eyebrows they'd ever seen on a woman. So I was called back.

The idea was that in the seventeenth century, people didn't wash, and had no concept of hygiene. The costume attendants had a lot of fun putting artificial dirt under our fingernails.

Then when we went outside, a team was waiting to throw mud over us. People who looked too clean were sent back to change.

I'd arranged what I was to wear, a long drab skirt made from sacking and some other nondescript stuff including a black bodice. They fitted ok.

On the day of filming, the costume assistant discovered that the bodice had strings attached so it could function like an external corset. She pulled the strings to their full extent so that my waist contracted to a third of its normal size, and tied the ends in an inaccessible way.

We were then on location, constantly on our feet for twelve hours in a courtyard on a freezing February day. But we did have a bit of a lunch break and jocular conversation.

It would have been fun or at least bearable if I hadn't been constantly struggling for breath. The fat didn't disappear but formed a plateau under the sharply defined waist. It looked quite extraordinary.

Fluttering in the chest caused by the inability to breathe deeply may be of some interest to sadists. But by the end of the working day, my patience was exhausted, and this was even obvious to casual observers.

I'm not really complaining about this. It was interesting for once, but it does show some of our former fashions could challenge Islamic dress as crimes against humanity.

If given a choice between having an iron - well it felt like iron - cage around my waist and stomach and baggy harem trousers for everyday wear, I'd have to choose the latter.


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject: neptune Reply with quote

I've mentioned an exasperating fundamentalist friend who expressed a belief in Witchcraft at her sixtieth birthday party. At the same event, she was disconcerted to be given a card which showed a detail from the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

It was the bit where God extends his finger and brings Adam to life with what looks like an electric charge. She demurred that it was a 'bit risque.'

''It's not risque, Judy; it's art'', said the donor patiently. Of course, Adam is naked but you don't even think about it. The image is so familiar.

I was thinking Judy was quite exceptionally ridiculous. But now we hear that a virile muscular nude statue of Neptune in a square in Bologna will be censored on Facebook. It's either that or being banned from Facebook altogether.
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:30 am    Post subject: kilt Reply with quote

There was at least one occasion before the battle of Cable Street when the British government saw fit to ban the costume of young men they saw as troublemakers. After one of the Jacobite uprisings - or maybe after both of them - the culture of the Scottish highlands was proscribed.

I'm not denying that Jacobites were troublemakers from the Hanoverian point of view, but we should deplore ethnocide on principle. Not that I've ever been able to take it seriously.

Our O level history teacher was once telling us that after the '15 or the '45, the wearing of the kilt was banned in the highlands. My friend Cathy shrieked with laughter.

He then elucidated with weary disgust, ''It had to be replaced with trousers, Cathy. Don't get excited.''
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dai



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well ... I have said it before : I think that it is women who are concerned about what women wear whereas men are indifferent and would prefer women to wear less ...
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: euch Reply with quote

You will be seeing women wearing less soon Dai, by diktat of Brussels. The test case was about a workplace in Brussels too.

Until recently we've been behaving like - well - pussies as Donald Trump would say. We've had a World Hijab Day when women who are not Muslims have been encouraged in the best liberal tradition to don a hijab for one day to show solidarity with their Islamic sisters.

According to 'Princess Sultana' of Saudi Arabia in what may be a true account relayed by Jean Sasson, she was on holiday in Cairo when she 'saw her first blood' as the idiom has it. Had she been at home in Saudi Arabia, she would have had to veil on the spot.

She was astonished years later to hear from Western girls that they had never heard of this harbinger of womanhood until it happened to them, and then thought they had an awful disease.

In Saudi there was no taboo on talking about it. It was from first menstruation that a woman had to wear a veil. Sultana went into the cothes souk a child whom nobody took any notice of, and came out in a black tent. Suddenly all the boys and men were ogling her and trying to get a glimpse of her forbidden flesh.

She couldn't see anything clearly. It was awful. She narrolwly avoided being knocked down by cars on the way home. It would be a constant hazard from now on.

I've heard of an Arab youngster in a shopping mall in his country. Two black shapes that were presumably human stepped on to the down escalators. You could only tell which side their faces were because they would not have been crazy enough to go down the escalator backwards. He turned to his Western friend and said without a jot of irony, ''Check them out!''

Sultana found it a terrible form of oppression. Why not have an International No Hijab Day so the shrouded living can find out what they're missing?

As of today, for the remaining time we spend in the EU, employers will be able to impose laicite if they want to. They can forbid the wearing of the burqa and any other religious symbolism such as a cross.

I don't imagine they will bother about yin-yang symbols but they would be empowered to ban them too. I'm becoming increasingly anti- burqa. I've heard that babies in the womb get rickets in the West quite often if their mothers' bodies are cloaked in burqas.

I've had a cavalier attitude to foetal rights up to now, but if you intend to have a baby, you might as well give it a good start by allowing it access to sunshine.

The risk is less in Africa and the Middle East.We can be confident now that the human race evolved in Africa and our default colour is probably black or brown. It's thought we went through rapid evolutionary change on coming to northern Europe where the sunlight is so weak.

Had we not become fairer we would have gone extinct. A man with rickets could still shuffle forwards and have a bonk. But a woman with severe rickets could not have a live child before the advent of caesarean section. The bones of her pelvis would be seriously distorted.

When black and brown people come here, it behoves them to take vitamin D supplements but more importantly, they have to let the sun get at their bodies.

I have read that before 1492 when significant numbers of Europeans began to colonise the New World, the fair skinned people of the earth lived in a 1,000 mile radius of Oslo.

I don't know about that. The hill people of the Atlas mountains are not that dark. Iranians and Kurds are often pink in complexion, especially if they are female and so are some higher caste Hindus. Even Australian Aborigines are sometimes quite fair skinned and even fair haired as small children.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject: zaiba Reply with quote

Zaiba Malik grew up in the North of Engalnd in the 70s. She was the child of immigrant Pakistani parents.

She wrote a really funny coming of age book based on her own early life. As I was a child and adolescent in Britain at the same time, some of it had nostalgia value for me as well.

She was sometimes just a bit embarrassed by her parents. He mother would introduce herself to British strangers in broken English, ''We are a Muslim please.'' This became the title of the book.

She had cultural clashes and had to endure baffled and somewhat impatient questions about her religion and culture from other girls at school.

These moments were no more awkward and embarrassing than ordinary episodes of teenage angst. What I really admire about Zaiba is that while she was usually as self conscious and anguished as any half grown kid, when she encountered truly disgusting episodes of racism she reacted with fury and gave the offender more than they bargained for.

Unlike her mother, Zaiba did not wear her religion on her sleeve. But as a social experiment, she deicded to go around for one day in a burqa to see what kind of reaction she had. This was just a few years ago.

She didn't feel happy seeing herself in the mirror in the thing. She had heard that some women said it gave them a feeling that they were protected from stares and leers. It made them feel safe.

Zaiba had the opposite experience. She was ignored in a hurtful way or else stared and glared at. People gave her contemptuous glances, or harassed her, calling her, ''You stupid Muslim.''

She felt extremely unsafe. There is no excuse for anti-social behaviour - unless it's by me of course - but I really wouldn't recommend wearing a burqa, and I don't think Zaiba Malik would either.


Last edited by marianneh on Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:58 am; edited 2 times in total
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dai



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmm ... But surely when non-Muslim women go to those countries were things like the burqa are worn they often receive hostile treatment e.g. diplomatic wives etc don a headscarf " out of respect " for " Muslim values / tradition / custom " - only it is nothing to do with Islam which advocates modesty but objects to stupity and insists upon morality : the burqa is argued to help control the sexual appetite of men yet Islam does not transfer men's responsibility for their behaviour onto those women who just happen to be passing nearby - it would destroy the basis of Sharia Law ( not that I agree with it as a legal system otherwise ) ... Arguably the burqa etc completely covering women has its origins not in suppressing the sexual desire of men but in women cultivating a paler skin in order to present themselves as more desirable ... and arguably that has got nothing to do with sexual desire but economics in much the way that young women contrive to present themselves as more desirable here in Wales e.g. what poorer women tend to do is to mimic the appearance of richer women in order to secure husbands who either are rich or who are pretending to be ... The consequence is that here in Wales the choice of clothing - especially shoes - is confined to this purpose : if The Women in The World elsewhere find it impossible to go out other than covered in a burqa without receiving hostile comment then equally The Women in Wales find it impossible to go out other than covered in cosmetics without receiving hostile comment - " Oooh - she's got no bra on : she's just asking for it ... " ...
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