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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2639

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[ a text : we disagree on most things - " Loony Liberal V Cranky Commie " - ] DAF : AT THE BOTTOM - DO YOU THINK THAT JULIUS CAESAR'S FUNERAL FITS ? YOU CAN SKIP THE REST =

http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=4162#4162

" Properly Separating Religion & Politics " - was supposed to more generalised but I became pre-occupied with these allegations of " anti-semitism " because they offended me deeply : my basic argument is that for whatever reasons they are being made they trivialise the matter and debase the currency of all such arguments about " anti-X-isms " ... But it wonders all over the place - as usual ... it has an amusing poem in there which ... er ... I think however you would have to know a bit about the history, myths and legends of Ye Olde Soccer Mobs of Englande ...


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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose that the Jewish reader is going inquire as to why I have not gone to schul today ... the answer is because I am knackered having not arrived home before dawn : I was grasping wearily at the wheel whilst the day was being broken ... composing verse whilst in reverse is quite perverse ... At this turning of The Wheel of The World I now think that a little straight talking is in order to those I am complaining about : surely children are off limits - even to perverts like you ? ... I have now asked her to put her account of things in writing so that I can circulate her description of you in a Security Note : I advise you to contemplate the possible consequences of such a document being in circulation.

It is not after all as if I am about to forget your behaviour in Hereford.

Religion and Politics are but two parts of The Public Discourse and anybody may express any opinion on Y Repwblic : I do not mind people lacking any political education - nor do I mind contributors being rude or hostile : but neither hiding in corners and muttering to yourselves nor subverting other people's meetings - real or virtual - amounts to any sort of a discourse ... Conduct your arguments on Y Repwblic please !

The standards of conduct expected on Y Repwblic are only marginally higher than yours : excepting that they are in some manner ideological please do not post images or provide links to pornography, violence or sporting fixtures because these tend to attract the immature - the deal with informe.com is that Y Repwblic should be readable by those over thirteen years of age and therefore we are aspiring to write at that level.

____________________________________________________________________

There are so many things I might say - or rather would have said : I simply turned my back on Ersatz Israel for thirty years because of the screwy emotions involved ... I always preferred to do practical things and to leave others to sort their own messes out : as far as I was concerned - am concerned - the remedy for the situation there is Judaism because although the Zionists have always tried to clothe themselves in the appearance of it ( hence their recent efforts to claim that criticism of Zionism is the same as anti-semitism ) Zionism is fundamentally the anti-thesis of Judaism ... However there is no time for me to exercise everybody else's right to my opinion this evening ... When I started this thread it was partly because any Limply Lefty Liberalis-ish-ish-ish outfit like Y Repwblic can not ignore this running sore on our political consciences - somebody else would start such a thread and in anticipation of potential contentions there are in fact two threads which are supposed to compliment each other ...

... As you can see there is no balance and this is because I knew that it was pointless raking over the ashes of those Leftish arguments ... But I studied Ideology ( Destitute Tracey etc ) and on and off I keep poking at " The Book " and " The Model " - neither of which are - every going to be ? - ready for publication ( basically lest fools abuse them ) ... " The Book " is a Meta-Ideology drawing upon - amongst other things - Personal Construct Psychology ... " The Model " originated in my frustrations in trying to use Reportation Methodologies because - well - they are not usable ... I was also struggling within my religious life I suppose : I had gradually developed a fairly co-herent view of Quakerism - " ... and so I am Non-Theistic Nomostic Hylozoist and - " " Onkl Dofid ! - Can I go to bed now ? " - but my part of Quakerism ( traditional " unprogrammed " silent worship ) is basically descending into an incoherent and unwieldy mess in which RSoF is unable to make any distinction between Religion and Politics - and foolishly issued a sort of " Bill of Attainder " supposedly singling out the goods from the illegal settlements and naming " Israel "... nobody outside of Israel knows where the settlements actually are - certainly not The Quakers ! - but of course that situation has been deliberately contrived by The Democrats in Israel ...

( YES : I DISAGREE WITH THE ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS - BUT ALL LAWS AND POLICIES MUST BE UNIVERSALISED : THIS PRONOUNCEMENT BY RSOF CAME PERILOUSLY CLOSE TO BECOMING AN EXAMPLE OF REAL ANTI-SEMITISM - BECAUSE IT WAS " PLANNED AND SYSTEMATIC " - YET THE ZIONISTS IGNORED THIS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THE ACTUAL PROBLEM : THEY ARE USING THE ALLEGATION TO SMEAR THEIR CRITICS AND RECKLESSLY DEVALUING THE ARGUMENT - ZIONISTS ARE MOSTLY WEALTHY MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER ACTUALLY ENCOUNTERED ANTI-SEMITISM AND SO THEY DO NOT CARE WHETHER ANYBODY JEWISH LIVING ON A COUNCIL ESTATE IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE BEATEN TO A PULP : WHAT THEY WORRY ABOUT DURING EACH MILITARY OFFENSIVE BY THE ISRAELIS IS WHETHER IT IS DEVALUING THEIR VARIOUS FINANCIAL INVESTMENTS ... THESE RECENT SHRILL ALLEGATIONS OF ANTI-SEMITISM IN THE UK AND USA ARE CLEARLY BEING DIRECTED AT THE SUPPORTERS OF THE ISRAELI LEFT - AND I THINK THAT THEY ARE ORCHESTRATED BY THE ISRAELI RIGHT : THE INCREASING NUMBER OF ACTS OF CRIMINALITY BEING PERPETRATED AGAINST THE ISRAELI LEFT HAVE BEEN TACITLY ENCOURAGED BY RIGHT WING PARTIES AND THE GOVERNMENT AND SECURITY SERVICES IN ISRAEL - AND I HAVE BECOME INCREASINGLY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS ... I NOW THINK THAT THE SUSPENSION OF THE CONSTITUTION IN 1967 WAS CLEARLY NOT MERELY FOR THE PURPOSES OF DEALING WITH THE EXTERNAL " ENEMIES " OF ERSATZ ISRAEL )


... When I saw the constitutional mess developing in Wales due to the political miseducation of The People in Wales I began to have an urgent need to try to challenge the consequences of the incremental developments of Devolution e.g. The Welsh Government began to make laws ( incompetently draughted ) without defining the extent of its jurisdiction ( stupidly equating that with mere geography ) and without creating a suitable legal system ( utterly insane ) ... Nobody in Quakerism is expected to politically conform to a particular ethicality but we are expected to explain to other Quakers how our public advocacy of a political ethicality has been reconciled to Quakerism and we are required to conform religiously to a Quaker morality ... RSoF does not endorse any political creeds any more than it endorses religious creeds - but when we are engaged in religious advocacy for a particular concern then as Quakers we can formally ask for financial, technical and social support - providing that we are not pursuing sectarian ends which seek to divide The People in The World other than by arguments about morality : Quakerism was intended to become The Religion of The World - so you will understand then why given my own sensibilities I prefered it ...

... But after thirty years I began to be irked : it is all very well to insist upon avoiding credal statements so that Jews, Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Satanists, Atheists etc can all sit down together in one room to worship without words ... But a false sort of this non-credalism has developed and led The Quakers in The World into a trap of their own making : if anybody tries to set down a coherent account of what all of these different versions of Quakerism have in common there is a chorus of ( silent ) protests ... Individuals in Quakerism are not allowed to pretend to make any public pronouncements as to what Quakers believe - therefore all publications containing corporate statements involve hundreds if not thousands of contributors and editors and committees and ... the result is that whilst we worship without words we have otherwise buried Quakerism in so many words that nobody has a clue as to what we are saying - including us ! ... This all began to came to a head over the issue of " Non-Theism " about twenty years ago and it is still a very hot topic for some very distressed Quakers who are bewildered by the new idea ... I ought to point out that apparently Non-Theism has not even registered with most of The Quakers in The World yet but is steadily persuading many in the English speaking countries ... If you want to pay to read my published contribution to the debate it consists of two pages in -

Godless For God's Sake - Ed David Boulton

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Godless-Gods-Sake-Nontheism-Contemporary/dp/0951157868

- but to be honest I think that my biographical sketch there was the weakest contribution to that anthology ... Here in Cardiff Quaker Meeting the anxieties and concerns of those whose ways of thinking are more conventional and traditional were discussed in a formal debate in which they demanded that whilst Quakers may not believe in Jesus then they should at least believe in the existence of God ... one way that question might be answered from within a sort of Jewish-ish-ish-sh Non-Theism might be to quote the first ( English ) ten words of The Torah - “ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth " i.e. even heaven is a created thing - but God is not created i.e. God does not exist - so get used to it : He is beyond the understanding of created beings like ourselves ... which sort of leads straight to the thing which still sets Judaism apart : that it asserts that God has a name but that Jews do not know what His name is ... whilst that might be just an accident due to historical circumstances it entirely sets Judaism apart in terms of theology : despite having drawn upon Jewish literature and liturgy neither Christianity nor Islam seemed to have grasped the significance of this - and to be honest neither have I ... I thought that I had a satisfactory scientifical explanation as to the natural mechanism underlying the Quaker Meeting For Worship which explains why it works even for ardent Atheists ( to their bewilderment - and no, it is not a conjuring trick ! )

... ( and at that point whilst I was writing this I began to suffer not so much from doubt as terror ) ...

... I do not know where I am going with this : it is taking me by surprise - it feels like I will be handing out my personal contact details next ( if you want to ask a question of me in private you can always join the Y Repwblic and then use the messaging system above ) - ... _ ... - ... _ ... - you have probably noticed that I have some basic recipes for cooking up a piece ... the reason for that is that several years ago at a critical time in the board's existence - bordering upon its non-existence - I resolved that somebody simply had to try to rescue The Republicans in Wales from our own difficulties resulting from our being made into political pariahs by the supporters of the non-political system called The United Kingdom since 1792 ... There are 500,000 - 600,000 adults in Wales claiming to identify themselves as " Republican " - which is 20% of the electorate in Wales - but since the late 1950s we have been plagued by self-appointed Black Factions publicly proclaiming themselves to be " Republican " and imitating The IRA etc - perfectly dovetailing into the propaganda of the supporters of The United Kingdom because their ideas of " Republicanism " are culled from exactly what they have seen broadcast in The Media ... I myself was not aware of the extreme degree of prejudice that has been inculcated into the majority of the minds of The People in Wales by this propaganda until I decided that - despite my inadequacies - I would try to get Republicanism taken back into Welsh Political Society ( WPS ! ) because of the mess that The Democrats in Wales were making of the constitutional issues - mostly because The Democrats in London have insisted upon having their " Sovereignty " without actually even knowing what that is : it was a fantastical piece of nonsense concocted in the 19c as a way of refusing to The People in Ireland a succession of Home Rule Bills for over a hundred years ... until one was finally conceded in 1912 - and then suspended in 1914 - which led to The Easter Rising in 1916 - and then The Anglo-Irish War - and then The Irish Civil War - and then " The Troubles " - and then ... ?

Around noon I wrote a proem for this - " The Foggy Dew " - but right now I need to eat - and think ...

[ GONE MIDNIGHT : I DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED - AS I OUTLINED IT TO COPY I PROBABLY TOUCHED DELETE - THE AGONY OF TRYING TO RECAPTURE THE WORDS AND RHYTHMS - I GOT FED UP AND TEXTED WHAT I RECALLED OF IT TO DAFYDD ASKING HIM TO REPAIR IT - I ENDED UP WRITING THIS WHILST MOURNING FOR IT ]

C'mon - I only want to be your bard -_
To speak The Truth - why make this hard ?_
YOU SHOVED ME !!! ... Why delete a damned GOOD proem ?_
Oughhh ... Give me Your words then - You ought to know them - _
But treat me - please - with more regard ?

------------------------------------------

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yaS3vaNUYgs - so please ... beware of - " The Foggy Dew "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG6bL-1KPuI - another view of " The Foggy Dew "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvCh6tTnq7o - how they think - " The Foggiest Dew "

[ next day - still not thinking clearly ] - I thought of trying to find a documentary about 1930s - 1940s Palestine to demonstrate the kinds of potential sectarian violence that may exist in Ersatz Israel but I think that Michael Portillo's BBC documentary serves two purposes - A) it demonstrates The United Kingdom's imperial mind set which was sewing into Palestine the seeds of the violence which would burst its seams in 1948 and which now runs like a bloody red thread through the history of the conflict between Israel and Palestine - B) I think that in using the sectarian conflicts in Ireland as an example instead it helps others to think more clearly about these issues because their sentimentalities lie elsewhere and therefore they are not so inhibited by them from being able to think clearly. ... I have just added a third - " The Foggiest Dew " - and again I find myself shaking my head thinking - " See - Republicanism predicts this : they have no politics at all - they do not reflect on their consequences of their actions so they do not change their behaviour - not even in the light of obvious experiences - they just intend to try harder next time ! ... They are utterly willful - and so NOT Republicans ! "

[ - and I am still not thinking clearly : I have thought that a jokey story might help to explain what I have in mind next ... but ... perhaps not ... meanwhile - how about you fixing my broken proem yourselves ? ... ]

[ text to Daforitz ]

YOU DO CROSS WORDS This will not seem so likely to The People in " The Foggy Dew "_Who believe that in conquering others they will bring power to just a few_The Nomos governs The World you see and so we can not be divided_God's " Cosmic Torah " rules the world and so He can not be defeated_" The Unbreakable Law " will simply break all those who would this do // The Nomos rules The World we see and so it can not be divided_God's Cosmic Torah governs this// governs us all // frames our lives // and He can not be defeated_The Unbreakable Law //of Nature//will //will simply // break all those who would this do

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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2639

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have rather too many ideas as to how to finish the above : it would expand exponentially ...

... You will grasp from the gist of the poem that there is a scientifical idea at the centre of my own ideological stance which is arguably mystical : Non-Theism rejects the literal existence of gods but embraces all religions because they are the human activity of making sense of The People in The World - and this in turn means that Religion is the necessary precursor to Politics because it is the result of how The People understand The World ... The Democrats in declaring that their religious beliefs are not a public matter for public scrutiny are evading giving us any account of the basis of the violence which they are doing to The People which is claimed to be " political " : fundamentally their argument amounts to - " The Democrats are only using political violence against The Republicans in order to teach The Republicans that The Democrats do not accept anybody using violence for political ends."... The flaw in their argument is that Republicans are intrinsically non-violent - sometimes explicitly Pacifists but implicitly Pacificators because of the intrinsic nature of our political arguments : it is not merely that in defending themselves from the violence of the supporters of The United Kingdom our political forebears were subjected to these allegations but that The Democrats in The World make these allegations as part of their denying that they use violence when they can not win a political argument - in other words Democracy is intrinsically Ultraist and therefore non-political ... The reappearance of Religion in The Public Discourse means that Non-Theism is likely to become important to where " The Wheel of The World " is going to turn to next i.e. " The Spiritual Revolution " which was much contempted by The Democrats as feeble-minded non-sense and ignored by them because " Religion is a matter for Private Contemplation not Public Scrutiny " has been steadily undermining the grounds upon which they can stand : The Democrats apparently think that they can stop " The Wheel of The World " from turning ... The Democrats actually believe that they can do as they please - and without consequences ...

... What were the consequences of my rejecting the literal existence of God ? ... Aged sixteen - possibly aged fourteen - I firmly rejected the entreaty to join myself to what I was brought up with : on the one hand I think that what is mostly professed as " religion " is feeble-minded non-sense - but on the other hand I think of it as our collectively trying to make sense of The People in The World ... it is a human social activity and those who get together to enjoy sneering at superstitious beliefs and equate them with the idea of " religion " are still doing religion themselves - but usually very badly : as often as not they are themselves doing a version of Hierocracy in which they manipulate each other using ideologies like Marxism which explain away the necessity for such things as " Truth, Love, Freedom, Peace - and Life ! " ... Hierocracy is essentially religion gone wrong - Iran is a good example : a bunch of clerics correctly and courageously opposed The Shah's regime - but when The People in Iran overthrew it there was a frightening turmoil and so when Ayatollah Khomeini returned they were all relieved to see him : the idea of a strong moral man to steady the helm of The Ship of The State appealed to them ... but he deliberately drove it " safely " aground instead ... Lil' Sis can still speak a bit of Parsi : the Iranian students our parents were helping spent a fair bit of time arguing with my Dad as he imparted his experiences as a trade union leader and warned them about their " ideology."...

... And suddenly the parental ghosts in my head have both materialised - one upon of each of my shoulders - to scrutinise what I am writing this morning : their definition of " ideology " is " running off into fanciful notions " - whereas mine is the correct definition : a study of ideas, a self-examining belief system which is self-critical as well as critical of others and therefore capable of the revision, reform and revolution of is own construing of The People and The World ... Most people only ever repeat what they have been told to say by others who also coerce them to say these things with both silly and serious threats like " If you do not believe in The Lord - ! " and this is the sort of strategy used by Hierocrats because their political power depends upon their professed beliefs not being subjected to public scrutiny ... My parents questioned the reality of every " ideology " but they did not explicitly admit that they had constructed a belief system too : as far as they were concerned they had apprehended Reality and as far as I was concerned they were right - I was an extremely confident young adult who had no time for the way that others thought because they were so muddled and above all so emotional : in my family a fairly standard strategy was - " You see : you are getting emotional - so you do not have sufficient detachment to discuss this objectively - therefore your argument is defective ! " ... The People in My Family are The Good People but not The Kind People ...

... The person that I am now reflects The Worst Day in My Life upon which I had to make a decision - which I did in an entirely rational and reasonable manner and without any consideration of the emotions involved : it was clearly impossible to continue with my studies at university whilst ill - nor I could not fulfill my professional responsibilities as a student representative ... what precipitated this decision was a misplaced sense of my personal integrity : I decided that it was dishonest to continue to cash my student grant giro when I knew that I was ill and could not pass my examinations let alone manage to make up for the time lost to being ill ... It was my responsibility to myself and to others to turn my attention away from my career in architecture for eighteen months or so in order to study psychology and deal with this weird phenomena : my mind is sane but my body is insane ... This had begun six months beforehand and initially had frightened me - I did initially think that such an idea was in itself insane - but after the third bout of it I knew that it was not just some weird one-off invent ... On the other hand after struggling with this for thirty years I deliberately requested a final unequivocable unrevocable diagnosis from the most qualified medic in this field - " Basically David - you are a one-off event ! "

... It took sixteen years to even get a credible diagnosis - " Mixed State Cyclothymia " - and whilst I do not mind diagnostic label being known to others I do not think that it really says anything about me personally : everybody is a Cyclothyme - but some are more so than others ... everybody responds to a stress with a surge of chemicals which put their bodies into a state of readiness for fight/flight which then subsides away again and the length of everybody's cycle differs but is typically three days ... About two months before I first became ill I was at an international conference in which I might have caught an exotic infection : I went to a conference several years ago where there were a number of Cyclothymes and about half of them said that it had erupted into their lives after they had illnesses - we mostly agreed that it is probably damage to our autonomic nervous systems and clearly it is not of a psychological nature ... But I did not know that thirty years ago ... I was of course extremely emotional about the mysterious illness which was disrupting my life - and that is why being a Cyclothyme has proven to be both a curse and a blessing : it has given me an opportunity to learn how to deal with my own emotions and also other people's emotions ... First of all I had to deal with my family's reaction to my decision ... my Dad listened to my reasoning and made thoughtful suggestions ( like my not being suited to studying architecture and that I should come to his college to study building technology ... i.e. the course he was teaching ! ) ... my Mum demanded to know if it was a girl - NO ! ... was it homosexuality - NO !! ... was it drugs ? - NO !!! ... only ... MUM !!!!

... My closest friends treat my Cyclothymia with humour : a typical joke is to point remote controls at me with gestures or commands to turn the volume down or up, change the channel or - switch it off Lawrence !!! ... Nobody thinks of me as " insane " who knows me well - but equally they would probably all agree that I am " obscure " in my interests and concerns ... I watch virtually no television besides the BBC News in order to keep an eye on how The People in Wales are being deceived ... I rarely read a novel or watch a film ... I do not do crosswords or sports - I substitute proems and walks in the country ... I read a bit and I write much more ... because of The Worst Day in My Life : I thought that I had a psychological problem so over the course of the following eighteen months I ripped my own mind apart to find it out how it worked - and glimpsed three psychological problems which I then proceeded to fix over the next ten years ... but without the cycles of excesses and deficits of neurotransmitters stopping : within five years I had learned how to surf the wave and I no longer felt terrified of it ... I learned a lot about psychology and I still put it to good use but I decided that - despite the number of crappy counselors around - I no longer wanted to be involved in counseling for a variety of reasons besides not trusting myself ... I basically do not trust the accepted paradigms of psychology and given my experiences in teaching them I think those excited by psychology are sick - as presently practiced " Psychology " is a corrupt religion : Hierocratic - and potentially dangerous ...

... The different schools of Psychology are for the most part as sectarian and deluded as those various cults of " The True Believers " like Communists, Socialists, Anarchists, Liberalists, Facists and Conservativists : even as you enter their political surgeries for a consultation they have their prescription pads ready in their hands, re-commending their favorite drugs to you - or at least the drugs just sold to them half an hour before hand ... " Have you ever taken Xtesi before ? " ... " Er ... no - I am a Cyclo : my body chemistry is very sensitive - so I have to avoid all those sorts of thing if possible and - " ... " - Well take one of mine then - here ! " ... " Er ... do they work ? ... Have they been properly tested ? " ... " Not yet - but we are going to keep on experimenting with them upon The People in Wales and The World - until they work : our experiments will all be carried out within the agreed rules of Demockery and - " .. " - BUT - but - surely Democracy has been shown to be wrongly construed : it is not political at all - it is just a conjuring trick in which The People in Wales and The World are given a choice of voting for candidates all chosen by The Aristocrats and - " ... " My dear Mr Lawrence ... I am The Doctor and you are The Patient - you have to trust your doctors - not question them : now which of these coloured pill do you want to choose for me to make you swallow ? " ... " oh ... um ... do you have any White ones ? " ... " No - anyway : this is The National Health of Wales Service - you can vote for any colour of pill you like - but we have to prescribe The Red Ones ! " ... " But what happens if these disagree with me ? " ... " Well ... then we will bury you ... but do not worry : it will not cost you a penny - we will charge it to the taxpayers ! " ... " Oh - OK ... mMm ... that was very sugary - could I try a green one now ? ... mMm ... addictive ... "

---------------------------

3pm - an hour and a half later - I had a visitor in the middle of writing the above who wanted counseling : one of my complaints in life is that just because I can handle other people's negative emotions they come to me to discuss them - then having relieved themselves they go off to enjoy the company of others where they can do nice happy pleasant things ... I often feel like I am being used by others as a public convenience : I do mind supporting others - and it is understood amongst mature adults that certain things ought to be done for others with no expectation of reciprocation or even thanks ... but the fact is that the supporters of The United Kingdom are inculcated in the values of those whom it is designed to serve - The Aristocracy : these few hundred families view The People in Wales and The World as things to consume not relate to - and these values pervade the whole culture which has been created by them through the way in which they have shaped The State ... This is essentially why there are so many immigrants here - The Aristocrats do not want to pay a man to support a wife and children - they just want to pay sufficient wages to feed and clothe The People in Poverty ... Hence poor people have been putting off founding new families and so there has been a demographic crisis which The Aristocrats have " remedied " with immigration ... in other words having found our nation not satisfying their apetite they have started consuming the young adults of other nations - and damn the consequences ... And the parallel in Ersatz Israel ? ... That place is without parallel : it has a similar but much more severe demographic problem with dangerous implications. ... I was about to paste in some proems : I needed to go for a walk after my visitor left : I keep feeling ... well - what I feel - what I received whilst I was walking ...

I am Repwblic's " Sleepless Knight " :_I am never ready for a fight_My weapons are arguments, jokes and facts_And I spew out words in lengthy tracts -_But my shining White armour is full of shite ... = A loafer with jug of wine - and Thow ?_Breaking The Dawn with His Cock's Crow_Contemplating those past futures_Just one of those evolving creatures_Which Democrats don't like - You know ? = I know - there will be no Glorious Morn -_And I have often wished that I was not borne_But let us make The Best of It -_Let us enjoy The Beauty - and endure The Shit -_For this It : we must await The Harvest of The Corn.

I am Repwblic's " Sleepless Knight " :_
I am never ready for a fight_
My weapons are arguments, jokes and facts_
And I spew out words in lengthy tracts -_
But my shining White armour is full of shite ...

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !

A loafer with a jug of wine - and Thow ?_
Breaking The Dawn with His Cock's Crow_
Contemplating those past futures_
Just one of those evolving creatures_
Which The Democrats don't like - You know ?

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !

I know - there will be no Glorious Morn -_
And I have often wished that I was not borne_
But let us make The Best of It -_
Let us enjoy The Beauty - and endure The Shit -_
For this is It : we must await The Harvest of The Corn.

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !


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dai



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am going to come back to this later - but first : an ( almost ) Biblical take on Republicanism - Rolling Eyes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ0wNXzcZls - Republicanism vs Democracy

A few hours later and I have just watched that again and have a big grin on my face : I too have dubbed them " The Demoncrats " and he argues much like me but he does not address the problem of how to make the laws or organise The State - I suspect that he thinks that the answer is in The Bible but of course that was actually tried in The United Republic of 1649 - 1653 and it produced all sorts of problems not least of which was that The Democrats were yammering for every adult male to have a vote in each election regardless of property rights and therefore The Aristocrats seized control and made Oliver Cromwell " Lord Protector " who promptly replaced #1 President John Bradshaw who tried to rule by scriptural precedent with #2 President Henry Lawrence who tried to rule by consulting directly with God through His Angels ...

... There are several youtube videos debating " Republicanism V Democracy " and it is not as radical an argument as you might suppose - but in Wales the level of political education is so abysmal that " Democracy " is equated with voting and " The Rule of Law " is taken to mean that if Parliament makes a law then whatever it orders is lawful - there is no Justice in The United Kingdom merely Legalism - and The People in Wales are so ignorant they literally do not want to understand such things as Human Rights ... The Democrats tell them that we have " The Rule of Law " and " Human Rights " but de facto The United Kingdom is founded upon the non-political principle of " Sovereignty " which is not compatible with those things : everything associated with the non-political system whose supporters call it The United Kingdom is illusory because it can all be withdrawn upon the private whim of The Prime Minister because it has no constitutional defences to stop this or at least make it any coup obviously illegitimate if it can not be stopped ... Ersatz Israel has in fact a slightly better constitutional situation in that it does at least have a constitution ... albeit that it was suspended in 1967 ... both are in essence - on paper at least - bandit states which are at best indifferent to The Rule of Law and are often much worse than that ...

... What I thought of adding to the above was a brief comment about how through another Quaker I was introduced to Dafydd ap Geler Thomas who is my best-ish friend and who above his bookstore " Galahads " and together with Abigail Leonard ( now deceased ) had recently founded ( in 1984 ) what we generally refer to on " Y Repwblic " as " The Cardiff Illuminati " - Marianne Hancock came into the group soon afterwards and ... well : here we are still thirty odd - very odd - years later ... I agreed to administrate and maintain " Y Repwblic " for " Cymru Rydd " but that led to my writing upon it often and apparently they were flabergasted to encounter somebody who is a Real Republican - and withdrew into a secretive Facebook group ...

... " The Cardiff Illuminati " might be characterised as having opted for " privacy " because of what had happened in " The Conspiracy Trial " of 1983 or rather the stupid behaviour of " The Reds " beforehand which resulted in them being infiltrated by both provocateurs and wannabee insurgents - which resulted in The Welsh Socialist Republican Movement collapsing and Republicans of every other colour becoming paranoid ... Abigail in her brash American way declared something like " Aw shucz - hunnys ! - If theyr gonna forz uz tu confezz tu sum kind'o conzpirazzi letz mayk shur itz the biggez an' bes' wun goin - The Illuminiti !!! " ... I think that you can immediately guess that " Galahads " was a very different sort of bookstore to " 108 " which was only a few doors away in Salisbury Road ... " The Reds " were earnestly orthodox and useless - " The Whites " were recklessly heterodox and effective : they are long gone - whereas we remain ... well - sort of : their groups were based upon ideologies - whereas our group is based upon friendship ... ( and alcohol - ) ...

... ( - " Have you got any cash - chip in : three litres of White Lightning and a big bag of chips between us ? " - " Put kettle on ! " - " You Bastards - you've finished the crossword ? - How ? " - " C'mon - it's The Grauniad : they can't even spell poty ! " - " How about - " - " NO ! " - " I am never going to speak to any of you ever again !!! " - " The Neo-Fascists are in town ... what's on telly ? " - " I am too poor to vote Conservative ... " - " That's logickal Cap'n - but is He dead Jim ? " - " SOD THATCHER - WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT KINNOKIO ? " - " You mean to say that we got prosecuted and fined - but you ticked the box to be tried in Welsh - and they never summoned you ? " - " All men are bastards - but some men are more so ! " - " SOD MAJOR - WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT BAMBI ? " - " So ... the police confiscated your sword and whip - and they returned them bent and broken ? " - " It's bloody cold in here - couldn't we put some more books on the fire ? " - " C'mon - this child must belong to someone here ... " - " Fancy going to a meeting ? " - " I'm bored - let's go down the pub and try and chat up The Separatist Feminists ! " - " Is that Das Kapital in your pocket or ... are you just pleased to see me ? " - ) ...

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06-10-16 - 10.30 pm

I know why I am deviating so widely from the subject : to demonstrate the sort of person who is writing ... but I am unhappy about disclosing too much about my relationship to the issue : I rarely mention what I am doing off the board - excepting campaigns to do with Y Repwblic e.g. The Treason Felony Act 1848 is particularly relevant to this activity. I had a discussion with Dafydd about our political activities outside of The Cardiff Illuminati and he seems to be OK with what follows ... on the way home I met Socrates whom I have not seen for a long while and we stood in Queen Street ( it is or was the major retail shopping street in the city centre - the old Roman road eastwards out to Newport ) and discussed our various health problems upon which he was jovially blaming Tin Donna ... I had to point out that she was in fact standing ten yards behind him closely examining a shop window and we called her over and ... well - I guess that she was pleased to see us ... She had been trying to decide whether to buy a new pair of posh shoes ready for her forthcoming radio recital but decided instead that the burning issue of her moment is " Quantum Foam " and lectured us upon how The Laws of Nature appear to breakdown within it - posing the question to me of what this means in terms of The Nomos ... I am not that educated in the sciences to know what to say about this - aside from that obvious quote from Terry Pratchett about Chaos being better organised than Order ... but I can not find it - you can try ?

" Nothing I can say or devise, and nothing anybody else can say or devise, is going to be perfect. " ... " No one's policing their own minds more than an author. You spend a lot of time in your own head analysing what you think about things, and a philosophy comes." ... " There are some people who hate my guts. But that goes with the territory." ... Terry Pratchett



Well quite a few people hate The Cardiff Illuminati without even knowing who we are : The Awkward Squad ... I have described us before on the board in a jokey way as " a drinking, discussion, drinking, demonstrating, drinking group " ... perhaps that is misleading but you have to be part of it to understand it : Cicero recommends friendship on the basis that it is stupid to hang around with bad people - but how can you find good people - or even know what " The Good People " look like ? ... In my experience intelligence and wisdom are often strangers : wisdom consists in doing the right thing not in elaborating explanations for what is being done ... The Cardiff Illuminati certainly has a lot of intelligent and often highly educated people in it but it is above all a microcosmic slice through our society ... but what exactly does being " in it " mean ? ... It is radically different from what is conventionally understood to be " political " because it is ... sort of ... Republican - i.e. if your idea of a " religious " or " political " kind of " organisation " is that people of like minds get together to agree a list of objectives to publicise, promote and pursue by raising money and collecting names then you may not understand this ... The Cardiff Illuminati are of like minds in wanting to disagree with each other : we do not list any objectives nor publicise, promote or pursue anything - still less raise any money or collect anybody's names ... We exist for the meta-ideological purpose of a dialectical debate : in other words we are fascinated by other people's ideologies - and how to rip them apart ...

... so " Y Repwblic " and " The Cardiff Illuminati " operate " imperium in imperio " - in a Trivial way - enough said ?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have wandered a long way off the subject in hand : I came across a poem today by my Palestinian co-religionist Mai Zaru - a Christian Quaker - and I am looking art and listening to this ... Trivia ? ... In a sense - this is exactly what that ancient Roman goddess presented the wayfarer with : the choice between Lies, Hatred, Enslavement, War and Death - The Left Hand Path of Sinister Politics - or - The Right Hand Path of Dexterous Politics - Truth, Love, Freedom, Peace and Life ... and equally the choice Trivia offers us is that between The Closed Conspiracies of The Ultraists - or - The Open Conspiracy of The Altruists ... between The Ersatz Israel of The Real Estate and The Eretz Israel of The Real Thing : The God of The Torah - The Creator of The Natural Law - The Unbreakable Law : Nomos !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfltc6W0veg - " A Dried Pen " by Mai Zaru

... You will note that Mai Zaru even draws upon some of the same spiritual images that The Cardiff Illuminati do - " ... I never knew revolution or the proper equation, whilst searching for answers - we need help to be free ... " ... Mai was sixteen when she wrote that - I think that she is in college in The USA as I write this - and this is because the sentiments are universal : it is not that Mai Zaru and Dai Saw as poets and Quakers - and by the looks of it also as Pure Republicans - actually know each other ... it is that we are both living in The World and responding to the divine order within it which has been violated : it is of course nice to feel that The Nomos as The Unbreakable Law is like The Law of Gravity - that nobody can jump up and then willfully stay up - but that is of little comfort to those witnessing others either suffering or benefiting from the willfulness of others ... I find that my own misfortunes can be born without my lashing out in revengeful retaliation but I can not have my life back even if The Democrats in Wales suddenly decide to admit that what they have done and are doing here in my community in Butetown Cardiff was and is wrong ...

... And what else is the Israel-Palestine situation other than an exceptional case of a complete and aggressive wilfulness in all things ? It is not just a case of The People in Palestine being wronged but also of both themselves as victims and The People in Israel as victors being bound together by an evil which has contaminated and will contaminate everything and everybody associated with it ... Unless we can understand it - and by " we " I mean all of The People in The World - as a complete Ultraism : for both sides are dealing in Lies, Hatred, Enslavement, War and Death ... The only remedy for Ultraism is Altruism : both sides have to deal in Truth, Love, Freedom, Peace and Life ... and this is never easy : The Ultraists on both sides of such conflicts profit from them continuing - Hierocrats, Democrats, Aristocrats, Monocrats benefit from placing others " beyond the boundary " - and their sources of political power can only be challenged by those willing to " embrace the others " - by The Altruists ... and this implies that we - The People in The World - are not excused from becoming involved ... because we are involved : The Republic can not be divided and Justice can not be defined by countries, nations, states, governments, languages or religions ... The Nomos rules The World - and The People in The World who disregard this will broken by The Unbreakable Law - read your Book !


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( Posted circa 03.40 am local time ? )

Gone three in the morning and now I am sleepless_
Laying awake here - thinking how you are reckless :_
Laying awake here - thinking about your recklessness :_
It is easy to know that you are not from My Five_
Because on System X there they do not tap live._
Twenty minutes of loud bleepings - yet all without success ?

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts the moral right - not to sue for copyright !


( Setting up the sign line circa and reviewing this 07.45 am )

Listen guys - although I want to see off The Democrats in The World - chance would be a fine thing - my conception of Republicanism is the correct and proper one based upon The Rule of Law as it was originally expounded i.e. that " Sovereignty " is a divine attribute which belongs solely to God and which we literally can not possess as created beings. Look into the chameleon like non-political systems which lay claim to " Sovereignty " and you find that they " create " it by making laws : there is only law e.g. the privileges of The Queen in England are created by laws and The Crown is placed upon her head and the sceptre and orb are placed in her hands by the laws - and if everybody agrees to this then there is nothing wrong until some fool makes a law which declares that somebody or something is above, beside, below or excepted from one, some, any or all laws - and yet also proclaims that they are establishing, upholding, continuing or restoring " The Rule of Law " and that they are licenced to do so by virtue of " Sovereignty " ...

... " Sovereignty " and " The Rule of Law " are mutually exclusive ideas - " Sovereignty " is mere arbitrary willfulness and therefore it can not be claimed to be a political principle because it excuses those who invoke it from being rational and reasonable - and from being accountable to others : those who invoke it do so in order to use The State to pursue their own private interests - which they inevitably represent to others as being The Public Interest. Thus there are those who represent themselves as being " Republicans " who simultaneously declare themselves to be possessed of - or entitled to - " Sovereignty " ... yet this means that they do not subscribe to " The Rule of Law " and therefore - by definition - are not Republicans but Ultraists i.e. those who believe that they have placed themselves " beyond the boundary " and who are in pursuit of power over The State - to treat it as a possession and The People as Property - which is to turn the political system upon its head and thus into a non-political system which does not serve The Needs of The People but The Desires of The Powerful ... the end result of this is that not only that The People in Poverty end up Enslaved but The People in Power also end up poorer - and also Enslaved : each form of Ultraism creates a certain type of " Stasis " in which The Wheel of The World either ceases to turn or rocks back and forth ...

[ THIS WAS WRITTEN A FEW HOURS LATER - A DETOUR INTO RENAISSANCE REPUBLICANISM ( 1450-1650 ) " THE FOUR ESTATES " AS " THE ULTRAISMS " ]

... The Hierarchic Stasis is characterised by obtaining The Power in The State by manufacturing Lies, The Democratic Stasis by manufacturing Hatred, The Aristocratic Stasis by Enslavement - and The Monocratic Stasis by War : this is The Left Hand Path of Sinister Politics in which The Power in The State progressively ends up in fewer and fewer of The Closed Hands of The People in Power ... The consequences of this are that The Political System in The State becomes progressively more incompetent and The Public Interest of The People is finally legislated away and replaced by The Private Interest of One Community which is unable to conduct The Government in The State successfully because in trying to hold onto The Power in The State they refuse to accept the facts and arguments in The Public Discourse : in order to maintain control over their society they attempt to control everything within their society - Culture, Science, Economics, Politics, Religion and even Spirituality ... Monocracy is the most incompetent form of government and whilst it seems to promise stability with a strong central authority which is able to wield violence against threats to the stability of The State both from within and without it is actually the most unstable form of government and typically collapses in the face of the kinds of economic crises which only damage The Power in The State of an Aristocracy which conducts the business of government in ways that are not quite so irrational and unreasonable ... This final turn of " The Wheel of The World " - when in a Monocracy a tiny minority embark upon either foreign or civil wars because they think that there is a conspiracy against them because they do not accept the consequences of their own behaviour - is what Renaissance Republicans dreaded : that either the forces upon " The Wheel of The World " would result in changes in a society that were so fast that it could not be governed and guided away from being smashed against an unmoveable object - or that these unstoppable forces in contending for power over it would smash the " The Wheel " ... of course - both the unmoveable object and the unstoppable force in Renaissance Republicanism were God ... or at least His Unbreakable Law : The Natural Law which frames The Cosmos - The Nomos ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irresistible_force_paradox

POST SCRIPT : JUST A SHORT ONE - IT SHOULD BE PUT IN A BOX !

Nomocracy is a posh word for Republicanism : it means " The Power of The Law " just as Democracy means " The Power of The People " - and beneath these two terms which have their origins in the philosophical ideologies of Neo-Classical Republicanism ( 1650 - 1850 ) which were developed out of the religious ideologies of Renaissance Republicanism ( 1450 - 1650 ) are two different concepts as to how to define The Public Interest - De Res Publica. Nomocracy uses " The General Will " whereas Democracy uses " Vox Populi Vox Dei " ... Political assemblies in making laws are basically courts : a " Pure Republican " government is conducted solely by Nomocrats who decide the laws by extended arguments in which they construct a shared view of the matters in hand - this is not a perfected understanding : their decisions are always open to a revision if the laws which they have made prove to cause injustice - in which case they are " not legal " i.e. arbitrary legalisms are illegal in Republicanisms - you can not say " It's The Law " if the law in question is unjust : unjust laws discredit the very idea of " The Rule of Law " and so Republicans hasten to correct unjust laws ...

... Democrats also cite the words " The Rule of Law " but they are Ultraists who use Lies and Hatred to make unjust laws to serve the various private interests of those who give them the means to get elected - what they mean by those words is " We Control The State - We Control The People " ... The Lies that The Democrats re-lie upon is that by " The Rule of Law " they mean " We will make any laws we like - and those who resist the injustice of our laws are criminals " - and by " Democracy " they mean " Our Power over The People " - they are criminals ! ... In the middle of the 18c The Democrats performed a breathtakingly bold criminal act : they stole the clothes of The Republicans ... oh - OK ... they devised a whole series of arguments which basically amounted to this : the judicial deliberations of Nomocrats are too slow and too confined by precedents and principles - the jury should decide the law ! ...

... Hence Democrats demand The Common Law - The Sovereignty of The Lynch Mob - as the non-principle upon which their non-political systems are founded : the innocence of their victims is of course always finally admitted - provided that " The Democrats Who Did It " are long dead - and they often make ostentatiously public apologies in which they seize the opportunity to harvest a few more votes by praising themselves for being very apologetic but excuse themselves from any legal liabilities because of " The Rule of Law." ... The Republicans in the mid 18c loudly protested at " The Shotgun Marriage " as I call it which was a necessary political expedient in the Corsican, American and French Revolutions - in that order : the first three " Nation States " which strove to combine the two antagonists together by arguing that Republicanism and Democracy can be a check and a balance to each other - like a judge assisted by a jury ( = French Republican Democracy ) - or a jury assisted by a judge ( = American Democratic Republicanism ) ...

At the time that " Y Repwblic " was created I argued that it should be inclusive of and try to trike a balance between The Pacifist Internationalist's Republican Democracy ( " The Reds " - " The Left " ) and The Militarist Nationalist's Democratic Republicanism ( " The Greens " - " The Right " ) and therefore be " White " - " The Centre " - whose stance is " Pacificator " ... but that has not worked : The Repwblican Ornithopter is still lying in three pieces ... but on the other hand - I think that my project to literally re-write " The White Faction " back into existence after it was blown to pieces by " The Black Faction " in the 1960s is ... well - it is a project ... I am enjoying it ... so ... frankly my dears - I don't give damn : I have rejected Democracy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYj0M19Ap34 - Ret The Repwblican V Scarlet o'Democrat ... ( " TA-RA ! " - ? - Is that Gethin playing Scarlet ? )

The United Kingdom is neither a Democracy nor a Monocracy but an Aristocracy with a strong Hierocracy to assist it to wield The Power in The State ..." Israel " is a Monocracy with a very strong Hierocracy and a strong Aristocracy and a Democracy - but it is not a " Jewish Republic " because it disregards both Judaism and Republicanism ... " Israel " is not a place but " The People in Israel " i.e. all those who mutually recognise each other to have a some claim to inherit that identity from the original bearer of the name and who by no past or existing mechanism have ever bestowed it upon this Monocracy. Monocracies however are not interested in such arguments : they steal what they want and deal with their opponents by violence ... their reasoning amounts to " I do not need any political argument - give me what I want or I will kill you and take it anyway ! " ... So they were not interested in the fact that Judaism is totally opposed to their behaviour and that The Jews in The World were already protesting on behalf of The People in Palestine long before this wretched episode in non-Jewish history ever began : The Zionists have not only enslaved and taken The People in Palestine hostage but have also - to a lesser degree, lest it appear that the harm is equal - The People in Judaism ... To quote the words of Yr Ardystiad - " All nations are born of One People - All laws are born of One Justice - All Freedoms are born of One Peace " ... I believe that Zionism is the anti-thesis to the thesis of Judaism - I believe that Judaism is the remedy for Zionism : I believe that The People in Judaism actually need the help of The People in Palestine as much as The People in Palestine actually need the help of The People in Judaism : we need a mutual synthesis ... now ... if I could spin you just a few more of my woolly ideas - could you manage to knit yourselves one ?

... In the original Renaissance Republican arguments which were based upon Theological Ideologies the only way to escape tbis Enslavement was by turning to God for help : but - " as God is my witness "- He can not be prosecuted nor called into court rooms as a witness for others to answer for " An Act of God " because in Theological Republicanisms ( like Islamic Republicanism ) as The Creator of The Law God - and only God - is " Above The Law " i.e. in theory God as The Sovereign in The World is the all-singing all-dancing all-knowing all-wise and - importantly - all-good and all-powerful and all-perfect ... but ... by the same tokens He can not break The Law In The World - or He would not be God ... not even God's lawyer Satan can defeat The Unbreakable Law - which is that everything that happens has a consequence and that nobody can escape the consequences - even if they result from somebody else's behaviour ... This is the reason for creating laws and mechanisms to enforce them - for not standing by and merely watching somebody else being violated - which is why in creating laws we ought to consider their first purpose to be in giving advice to each other as to how to behave and to state to others what they are permited to do to restrain us if we do not behave as the laws that we create advise us to ...

... No statement can be considered to be a valid law if it licences harmful behaviour to others - nor is it sufficient to declare a law valid because it serves the private interests of a majority : the universal objective of all law making is in our maintaining The Peace in The World and that can only be done if The Law is made in The Public Interest which in turn demands that The Political System must be Altruistic and therefore it must uphold " The Rule of Law "and reject " Sovereignty " or its laws will cease to be credible and nobody will bother to learn them, be advised by them or abide by them ... We have this problem in Wales because the supporters of The United Kingdom have foisted upon us an arbitrary political system through a process which they call " Devolution " - YES : IN 1999 THE UNITED KINGDOM WAS MERELY OPPRESSING THE PEOPLE IN WALES - BUT NOW THEY HAVE CARRIED DEVOLUTION ALONG TO SUCH A POINT THAT THE UNITED KINGDOM IS NOW SUCCESSFULLY OPPRESSING ONLY MONKEYS !

DEVOLUTION IS NOT A CONTROLLED EXPERIMENT - IT IS AN EXPERIMENT IN CONTROL : THE PEOPLE IN WALES ARE DEVOLVING INTO FISH - IN A BARREL ! ... OR PERHAPS THE EXPERIMENT IN WALES ... IS NOW TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL ?


####? - edit this please - somehow ?

The Scientific Law of action and reaction


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

" The River Nile is full of shit -_But you are all in denial - that must be it -_So I will now lead Israel out of here -_Because The Pharoah will cause ten plagues ( I fear ) _We must therefore leave The Egyptian Union : this is - EXIT ( - US )

" The Jordan Valley is full of shit -_
" The Jordan River is full of shit -_
" The River Jordan is full of shit -_
But you are all in denial - that could be it -_
So I will now lead Israel out of there -_
Because The Pharoahs will cause ten plagues ( I fear ) _
We therefore must leave The Egyptian Union : this is - EXIT ( - US ! ) "

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David " Muse's " Lawrence : the author asserts the moral right - not to sue for copyright !

[ I OUGHT TO CREDIT DAF WITH THE SEED IDEA OF THE NILE BEING POLLUTED THUS PRODUCING THE TEN PLAGUES ]

A popular paper proposing promisingly peaceful partnerships - perhaps ?

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/River-pollution-unites-Israelis-Jordanians-Palestinians-405668


The polluted and trickling Jordan River might once again be “deep and wide” as well as clean by 2025, if the joint efforts of Israelis, Palestinians, and Jordanians bear fruit.

" On the diplomatic stage, Palestinians and Israelis have not held direct peace talks since April 2014. But on Tuesday and Wednesday, activists and officials from both governments as well as from Jordan met at the Crowne Plaza Hotel on the Jordanian side of the Dead Sea for the second time this year about water. ... All the projects under immediate consideration would be built either within the Green Line, in Jordan, or in Palestinians areas of the Jordan Valley that are now under Israeli military and civil control. There are no projects planned for Israeli settlements or that would strengthen Israel’s hold on the sections of the Jordan Valley that are over the Green Line. The Jordan Valley has 22 settlements that are home to some 5,000 Israelis. ... The plan assumes that the Jordan Valley would eventually be part of a Palestinian state, even though there is much opposition in Israel to relinquishing the valley, which many believe is vital to the nation’s security. ... But there are many aspects of the project that can move forward without a diplomatic solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. ... "

[ ... Agony : is this offer a scam - or an olive branch ? ]

----------------------------------

... That Cloudy Pillar song is running through my mind as I wake : I prefer the " Symbolist " technique when I write a dreamy piece of peace - writing a poem should be like making a hole in the wall of an apparent reality - it is not only not necessary to entirely demolish the prison of a person's ideology it is actually undesirable ... That is like remedying agoraphobia by demolishing somebody's house around them : what is perceived by others to be a prison is perceived by those who live there to be their home - not a death trap but a place of safety ... They will not perceive those who come smashing a way in to liberate them as being friendly but frightening - just as you can not grab freedom for yourself through the use of violence you can not grab freedom for others either ...

... The original Republican arguments often compared Liberation to Manumission - there is " The Open Hand " again - in other words to the formal ceremony in which a master and mistress freed their slaves : not by shoving them out of their home - which was a prison for the enslaved - but by restoring their " dignitas " - their dignity - their equal rights before The Law : Manumission was actually a public act which signified to the surrounding community that a person's dignity was being restored and this was signified by the presentation of The White Staff of Peace and The Red Cap of Liberty which meant that a person's own volition was restored : that they were free to travel [ ON " THE OPEN ROAD " ] and go where they please - that they were not runaway slaves but law abiding citizens ... This is why in 18c paintings of The Revolutionists in America they are depicted holding The White Staff of Peace and wearing The Red Cap of Liberty - and why these copied symbols feature in 19c European Republicanism : but they were made infamous in 19c Wales by the supporters of The United Kingdom who opposed The French Revolution. " The White Staff of Peace " is both for The Free Man to lean upon in his travels and also to defend himself from assault but without killing his opponents : The White Staff symbolises " Pacificator " and this is also to do with " Freedom from arbitrary authority " because a slave must submit to being beaten with it by his master and has no recourse to a court of law ... The Rule of Law secures our " Dignitas " - which means " The Rights of Citizens " - the word " dignity " has been deliberately debased to mean a priggish assertion of pretended honour in the English language due to over two centuries of propaganda against Republicanism which depicts Republicans as criminals for questioning not respecting those who think that violence is the source of authority.

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" Oh ! Sleepless Knight you are a blot_Upon The Torah whilst you jot_Your facts and arguments that may damage_The wholesomeness of Israel's image ! "_" Oh ? And you do not - Sir Plotalot ? = " You mongrel child - you're far too wild_The Friends of Israel have you filed_Under " L " for " Lwnatics "_For turning all your pranks and tricks_Against Ersatz Israel : our evidence is highly piled -
/ Your crimes against us are reviled //and just for kicks ? / - do you do this just for kicks ? / - are you doing this for kicks ??? _The evidence against you is now highly piled = // Piled trialed mild reviled = " Six hundred and ten laws you / we can break_But apologies afterwards you / we can not make_For replacing God with Hank-Panky_And replacing Love with Spanky-Wanky :_For replacing a Life with a sorrowing heartbreak./ For killing The Torah with each Life that you / we take "

Well all of the above came pouring into where my index finger was pointed within fifteen minutes or so as I waited to eat breakfast - c10.00am ? - and apparently this constitutes -

" A Conversation with Wales' Repwblican "

" Oh ! Sleepless Knight you are a blot_
Upon All Jewry whilst you jot_ [ better cynghanedd : an archaism for The Real Israel = People - not Property ! ]
Your facts and arguments that may damage_
The wholesomeness of " Our " Israel's image ! "_
" Oh ? And you do not - Sir Plotalot ? "

" You mongrel child - you're far too wild_
The Friends of Israel will have you filed_
Under " L " for " Lwnatics "_
For turning all your pranks and tricks_
Against Ersatz Israel : your crimes against us are all reviled ! "

" Six hundred and ten laws you can break_
But apologies afterwards you can not make_
For replacing G#d with Hanky-Panky_
And replacing Love with Spanky-Wanky :_
You are killing The Torah with each Life that you take."

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts the moral right - not to sue for copyright !
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me try to strike a balance in these accounts of myself and my inherited religious moralities and political ethics have come from -

I have just shed tears and I gave a sigh_Over yesterday and years gone by :_I stood by the wall where Tadcu stood_And said " Dai bach - you can - and should ! "_He loved the triumph of his grandson : it stands but two feet tall ! = I wrote it whilst bawling for him like that barely walking frightened baby

I have just shed tears and I gave a sigh_
Over yesterday and years gone by :_
For I stood by the wall where Tadcu stood_
And said " Dai bach - you can - and should ! "_
He loved the triumph of his grandson : it stands but two feet tall !

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !

= I wrote it whilst bawling for him like that barely walking frightened baby

[ THREE DAYS AGO I TOOK THE OPPORTUNITY TO VISIT PLACES I HAVE NOT BEEN TO FOR PERHAPS FORTY YEARS : UNFINISHED BUSINESS ? ]

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Of course Wales is all around me and whilst I have lived both in other places in both Wales and England I have lived in Butetown since I was twenty one because I am - or at least was - most comfortable here : no better place to live for a Citizen of The World ... it is more Cosmopolitan than Paris ! ... As to where the origins of the Jewish part of my family were this remains a mystery : apparently Estonia - but I suspect not ... As you may have noted far far above this in the thread I am fascinated by the idea that they were in some out-group and the one I suspect them of is The Karaites - " Qaraim " - and amongst the reasons why is the fact that these are The Awkward Squad in Judaism and I think that I share their sensibilities : I instinctively demand simplicity in religion ( and politics ) and because I am a very wordy person - as you may have noted - I instinctively distrust words as a source of authority ... that is why I subvert and mock myself and challenge The Readers to think about what I am saying : I want to get The People to think - but not to tell them what to think ...

... The name " Qaraim " means " Readers " and I think that their eastern approach to Judaism is not only the original but the best : they have always objected to the elevation of The Talmud and other commentaries and philosophical books to be equal to The Torah and their criticism of the Ashkenazi and Sephardi forms of worship amount to this - " You sit on chairs and pews ? You just bow your heads a bit ? Have you no understanding ? Hashem is The Lord and Sovereign of The Cosmos : how can you worship Him other than on your knees before Him ? " - but to be honest I do prefer to sit down ... My own gripe with all of them is answered by Quakerism in that it is foolish to lay any claim to speak about God - but - Quakerism has a big problem at the moment for the same reason : Quakerism has taken this so far in the opposite direction that nobody can speak about God at all ... I find myself longing to somehow make a synthesis between the two : I need the freedom to question everything - and to question The Torah ... Writing these pieces on this thread has helped me to both extricate myself from both and reclaim both - and thus reclaim myself for God ? ... Now you may find that disturbing - but do try to remember that I am a Nomostic Hylozoist Non-Theist - and therefore I just have to be a Pure Republican too !

In other words - I am myself - as you must be too if we are to be of any use to either ourselves or anybody else in Wales and The World.

https://sites.google.com/site/worldallianceofqaraim/statement

Out East amongst The Qaraim Jews are made - they are not born -_So when a son has reached thirteen all but his locks are shorn_Before he is apprenticed beneath The Holy Yoke_Which will either make him better - or - leave him stoned and broke :_For in harvesting new mannah The Readers must flail The Corn.

Out East amongst The Qaraim Jews are made - they are not born -_
So when a son has reached thirteen all but his locks are shorn_
Before he is then apprenticed beneath The Holy Yoke_ [ ... whereas I have been apprenticed upon The Holey Joke ... ]
Which will either make him better - or - leave him stoned and broke :_
For in harvesting new mannah The Readers must flail The Corn.

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !

Thinking about things is fun - think about this : it is just gone midnight - 12-10-16 - and the pound is plummeting ... you should be frightened : we are living in " interesting times " ... The Wheel of The World is now turning again.

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POST SCRIPT : FOR THOSE BEWILDERED BY THE IDEAL OF MAKING A JEWISH-QUAKER SYNTHESIS


Not an unusual Jewish view of Quakers - http://www.thejc.com/comment-and-debate/columnists/48234/how-quakers-turned-spiteful

How Quakers turned spiteful - By Geoffrey Alderman, April 27, 2011 - The Jewish Chronicle

" I have - or rather had - a soft spot for the Quakers ... The claim that the Quaker architect Joseph Avis declined (in 1699) to accept a fee for the construction of the synagogue of the Spanish and Portuguese Jews in Bevis Marks is almost certainly a bubbe meiseh. ... [ HE BENDS THE STORY : AS I UNDERSTAND IT - AVIS REFUSED TO PROFIT FROM IT ] ... But Quakers certainly supported the right of Jews to resettle in England, and were sympathetic to the campaign for Jewish political liberties. ... [ HE BENDS THE STORY : QUAKERS WERE IN FAVOUR OF RELIGIOUS LIBERTY FOR ALL - NOT JUST JEWS AND CATHOLICS AND MUSLIMS BUT ATHEISTS TOO : THEY WERE IN FULL OPPOSITION TO THE STATE'S HIEROCRACY IN A PERIOD IN WHICH EVEN THE PRIESTS OF THE ESTABLISHED ANGLICAN CHURCH WHO QUESTIONED IT WERE BEING PERSECUTED : IT WAS NOT EVEN " JEWS " WHO WERE RE-ADMITTED INTO BRITAIN PER SE BUT " BANKERS " - BECAUSE OF THE RUINOUS CIVIL WAR AND ITS AFTERMATH - FOLLOWED BY THE PLAGUE AND THE GREAT FIRE IN LONDON IN BOTH OF WHICH THE JEWS WERE SUSPECTED BECAUSE OF THE LIES ABOUT " JEWS " WHICH THE " CHRISTIAN " HIEROCRATS PROFITED FROM ] ... Quaker support for the Cromwellian resettlement was contingent on the Jews agreeing to convert to Christianity. ... [ HE BENDS THE STORY : QUAKERISM WAS BORN OUT OF CIVIL WAR AND THUS STRONGLY OBJECTED TO BOTH SECTARIANISM AND CONVERTING OTHERS OTHER THAN BY WAY OF A DIALOGUE TO FIND OUT WHAT IS HELD IN COMMON AND TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCES - " GOD CONVERTS " - IT IS TRUE THAT IN THE FIRST DECADES QUAKER LITERATURE WAS BEING TRANSLATED INTO HEBREW BY WAY OF " PUBLISHING THE TRUTH " - AND APPARENTLY BY BARUCH SPINOZA : ELSEWHERE I HAVE ARGUED THAT THE FIRST QUAKERS CAME FROM AMSTERDAM - JEWS ? ]

[ POST SCRIPT : A DRAMATISATION OF HOW BARUCH BECAME BENEDICT SPINOZA - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9r8xIbc3_k ]

... I make these points as essential background to an understanding of the spiteful decision taken earlier this month by the supreme decision-making body of British Quakers - the Meeting for Suffering - to boycott goods emanating from Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria. ... [ IT WAS NOT " SPITEFUL " - AND IT WAS THE RESULT OF A LONG WRANGLING ARGUMENT : THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A " SUPREME DECISION-MAKING BODY OF BRITISH QUAKERS " - PRONOUNCEMENTS BY BYM ARE NOT BINDING BUT " ADVICE AND QUERIES " - AND THIS TIME HE WAS NOT ONLY BENDING THE STORY BUT DELIBERATELY LYING - BUT I HALF AGREE WITH HIM : THE FINE DISTINCTIONS AS TO WHO IS INVOLVED WERE IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE AND BY IDENTIFYING " ISRAEL " THE WORDING OF THIS ADVICE WAS PERILOUSLY CLOSE TO MY OWN DEFINITION OF ANTI-SEMITISM I.E. " PLANNED AND SYSTEMATIC - NOT CASUAL PREJUDICE " - MY ARGUMENT AGAINST IT WAS THAT " GOODS RESULTING FROM CRIMINAL ACTS " IS THE LIMIT OF ANY ADVICE THAT CAN BE GIVEN BY RELIGIOUS ORGANISATIONS - AND THAT RSOF(Q)UK HAS CONFUSED STATING RELIGIOUS MORALITY WITH LEGISLATING POLITICAL ETHICS : I THINK THAT THIS WAS A NAIVE MISTAKE RESULTING FROM NOT PROPERLY UNDERSTANDING EITHER - BUT THIS MAKES FOR AN INTERESTING ILLUSTRATION OF THE REPUBLICAN ARGUMENT : IN REACTING TO THE PRIVILEGING OF ONE NAMED MINORITY AND THE DE-PRIVILEGING OF ANOTHER NAMED MINORITY BY DOING EXACTLY THE SAME A NUMBER OF RELIGIOUSLY CONCERNED - AND I AGREE WITH THEIR MORALITIES BUT NOT THEIR ETHICS - BUT POLITICALLY NAIVE QUAKERS HAVE FOOLISHLY TURNED RSOF(Q) INTO THE MIRROR IMAGE OF ZIONISM AS AN ERSATZ JUDAISM : ERSATZ QUAKERISM !!! ...

... IN BOTH CHOOSING NEGATIVE REACTIONS INSTEAD OF POSITIVE ACTIONS THEIR ADVOCATES HAVE BOTH CHOSEN " THE LEFT HAND PATH OF SINISTER POLITICS " - LIES, HATRED, ENSLAVEMENT, WAR - DEATH ... PASSIONATE EMOTIONS DO NOT " PROVE " IDEAS TO BE " TRUE " ... BUT " TRUE RELIGION " IN REPUBLICANISM IS A COLLECTIVELY CONDUCTED PUBLIC DISCOURSE ABOUT MORALITY - IN WHICH THOSE EMOTIONAL REACTIONS WHICH GIVE RISE TO THE " FALSE RELIGIONS " OF INDIVIDUALLY CONDUCTED PRIVATE DISCOURSES ARE SUBJECTED TO MUTUAL DIALECTICAL EXAMINATIONS WHICH RESULT IN A MORE DISPASSIONATE UNDERSTANDING OF MORALITY - ALBEIT " THE TRUE RELIGION " HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN APPROXIMATED PROVISIONAL COLLECTIVE UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN " THE FOUR HOUSES OF MONOTHEISM " - ( BUT NOT ONLY THE ORIGINAL FOUR OF " ZOROASTRIANS, JEWS, CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS " BUT ALSO ALL THE OTHER HOUSES OF " MANICHEANS, MANDEANS, SIKHS, BA'HAIS - AND BY EXTENSION HINDUS, JAINS, BUDDHISTS, TOAISTS ETC ) - I THOUGHT THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED TO A SHORT NOTE ON THESE SUBJECTS ... " THE ILLUMINATI " WHO WERE THE FIRST TO EXPOUND THIS VIEW OF MONOTHEISM WERE SYNTHESIZING ZOROASTRIANISM WITH ISLAM IN EARLY 17C IRAN : IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE THAT SEPHARDIC JEWS BROUGHT REPORT OF THIS TO AMSTERDAM - THE WORD " QUAKER " MIGHT EVEN HAVE AN ARABIC ORIGIN : THE FACT THAT THE FIRST QUAKERS WERE CITING THE AVESTA, THE TORAH, THE TESTAMENT AND THE KORAN ALL TOGETHER IS PROBABLY THE REASON WHY 17C QUAKERS WERE DENOUNCED BY THE HIEROCRATS THROUGHOUT MONOTHEISM.]

... Two things struck me about the actual text of the resolution adopted by the Meeting for Suffering. The first was its patronising tone - affecting to understand Jewish suffering in Israel and wishing only to help alleviate this through non-violent means. The resolution waxed lyrical on the work of "Jewish Israeli Peace Groups" and the need to support their partisan efforts. ... [ ABSOLUTELY MY POSITION - EXCEPT THAT I REFUTE THE IDEA THAT THOSE PROTESTING FOR PEACE CAN BE DESCRIBED AS " PARTISAN " WHEN THEY ARE CAMPAIGNING ON BEHALF OF ALL OF " THE PEOPLE " WHICH INCLUDES EVERYBODY : BOTH " ISRAELI " AND " PALESTINIAN " - IN THE WORDS OF YR ARDYSTIAD - " ALL NATIONS ARE BORN OF ONE PEOPLE " - " GOD CREATED MANKIND IN HIS OWN IMAGE " - BUT THE AUTHOR OF THIS ARTICLE IS PARTISAN IN BEING PREOCCUPIED WITH BEING JEWISH AND THEREFORE GEOFFREY ALDERMAN IS PARTISAN - INDEED : RACIST - AND THEREFORE IN MY OPINION HE IS NOT PRACTISING JUDAISM BUT ABUSING THE IDEA OF BEING " JEWISH " TO MANIPULATE THOSE WHO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES AS " JEWS " INTO AGREEING WITH THINGS WHICH CONTRADICT JUDAISM ... HE IS PRACTISING HIEROCRACY : THE FIRST STEP INTO " ULTRAISM " - PLACING OTHERS " BEYOND THE BOUNDARY " - BY TELLING LIES.]

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Actually what I had in mind there was a few brief links and quotations from various types of Quakers : although Quakerism shuns creeds and thus can welcome everybody into a " Meeting for Worship " to perform " The Experiment with The Light " - which really does freak out Atheists etc who have rarely had any direct personal experience of what they reason can not exist : The Numinous in The World. But Quakerism still has to rely upon those who in responding to their experiences in " Silent Worship " are able to express themselves in words i.e. you can not become a regular attender at a Quaker Meeting for Silent Worship ( i.e. the traditional original Quaker Discipline of Worship ) without seriously studying at least one religious tradition - because you need to have a religious vocabulary of some sort in order to fully participate in The Discipline of Quaker Worship - and this is a discipline which you have to impose upon yourself because only those who are abusing the opportunity of having a room full of people not interrupting their pontifications are ever directly challenged by the elders during a Meeting for Worship ... I was once an elder who got lumbered with a difficult situation : fortunately all such offices are rotated so that nobody can acquire any personal authority - I certainly did not - because the elder is just a ... supposedly ... skilled spokesperson for the rest of Monthly Meeting and ...

... there is no point reading about it : if you have no Quaker Meeting for Worship nearby - and you are prepared to perform The Experiment in Silent Worship - just read some books about how to do it : in brief - get rid of the chatter in your head - it is like patiently ignoring your own self - it is like putting your vehicle out of gear but with the engine still running - like watching a very still pond simultaneously mirroring what is above and revealing what is below the surface of The World - do not even think about " God " whilst doing this : everything that we think about involves using ideas which we have inherited, learned or invented - but something may capture your attention - the noise of the engine begins to rise - you struggle to find the words and - somebody on the other side of the room suddenly stands up and " ministers " - giving you their words for what you are experiencing - their own words but inevitably drawn from their own religious vocabulary ... my own religious vocabulary is mostly drawn from The Torah but ... as this thread began to swell I grew restless : I did not want to become " an inter-faith incident " so after discussing it with certain other Jewish/ish/ish/ishy close friends ( here is a quote from a texted conversation with such a friend still in my phone - " I don't care about the Torah or any other primitive ignorant religious writings. They are irrelevant and incorrect." - which seems to be an article of their faith which is frequently cited by The Ashkenazi Orthodox Atheists ) ... I have made a point of making myself known to those practicing Judaism in Cardiff ... Basically you can have any opinion you like of Judaism and Jews and nobody really cares until you open your mouth in a public way : many do not care about accountability to those who are still practising Judaism - but I do ... even though my own past encounters with them have mostly been fractious ... stories which I might tell you another day ... ( guess why ? ) ...

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I have got emails to deal with but they can wait until tomorrow morning : I want to indulge myself ... when we were children the idea that we qualified as being Jewish was more like a rumour : this is a commonplace apparently - perhaps originating as a practice in places where declaring a Jewish identity was very dangerous - children in working out their sense of identity will chatter about it to all and sundry - thus putting themselves and their family at risk - so they were not told until they were adults ... this is a common story ... Lil' Sis takes the matter extremely seriously and uses it as a platform to snipe at me - " A Nomostic Hylozoist Non-Theist Quaker ? When are you going to get yourself a real religion - Judaism ! " ... Our religious and political views are not so dissimilar and we both find Jewish-ish-ish-ishy company congenial but are easy with intelligent people from any other religion - except that her friends have a conventional approach to their religions and my friends are unconventional and generally indifferent to or in revolt against their religions ... Lil' Sis is - or at least was - emotionally attached to and supportive of The State of Israel ... whereas I am not - and so at least one of her friends over there loathes the very idea of my criticising The State of Israel and denoting the mess as " Ersatz Israel " ...

... The usual shibboleth thrown at me is as to whether I acknowledge " The Right of The State of Israel to exist " - sure : as an abstract concept ... but The State is a mechanism not a person : I expect The State of Israel to fall because every action has a reaction and therefore no amount of wishful thinking is going to save it from the consequences of immoral and unethical behaviour ... When I started this thread nine years ago it was because no Liberal Leftie website can afford to ignore the chronic situation of " Israel-Palestine " because of the issues involved ... but for obvious reasons I had successfully afforded to ignore this for ... forty years ... and Lil' Sis - and her friends - and Judaism ... I certainly did not expect to find myself publicly working out a private identity crisis : I just knew that Liberal Leftie arguments about Common Sense and Decent Behaviour have not - and will - not work ... so I experimented Meta-Ideologically to expose the hypocrisy of the claims made for " The State of Israel " as a " Jewish Republic " etc ... There was no point in my trying to master the details of a complicated political situation in which my opinion is irrelevant - it is up to The People in Palestine and The People in Israel to sort it out and for the rest of The People in The World to cheer or boo - it makes no difference ...

... What I wanted for " Y Repwblic " were some difficult, emotive and ideologically divisive issues to furnish examples for political discussions about Republicanism : and for this thread I decided to try to subsume Judaism for the purpose of criticising these claims ... this was not a matter of deceit but of entering into their own ideology to try to rip it apart ... then I felt guilty ... disloyal ... and I felt vulnerable to allegations of " anti-semitism " ... so I pointed out that - you know, sort of - mother's mother's mother - um - ... but along the way over the years something else began to grip me : access to the internet made me more aware of something which I never anticipated - that not only The Holocaust but Judaism itself is being taken over by Zionists and subverted for their purposes ... I was taken by surprise by how angry I became - and how ridiculous I then became : jealously defending a religion which I do not practice ... but whose literature I do draw upon heavily in practising Quakerism - because I do not like The Torah because it is Jewish ... I like Judaism because it is good : and even as I wrote that I became tearful ... No - I have no solutions for the Israel-Palestine situation other than Life, Peace, Freedom, Love, Truth - and The Right Hand Path of Dexterous Politics has to be pursued in that order in order to work. When a conflict can not be brought to a ceasefire then historically the conventions in civilised societies have been to limit the loss of Life : if The People in Israel really do want a reconciliation with The People in Palestine - ( which I believe that they do - but The Democrats in Ersatz Israel do not want a reconciliation but a final solution : conquest - because they have got themselves elected to serve The Monocrats and The Aristocrats - but probably not The Hierocrats - and certainly not The People ) - then The People will have to defy " The State of Israel " - and The Jews in The World will have to reclaim the exclusive use of their name - " Israel " - and also all of the other cultural property which properly belongs to them - and which does not belong to " Ersatz Israel." ... This is going to require an awful lot of tea and biscuits - and time - and - above all - courage ...

... the courage to be able to knock ever-so-casually on thy neighbours' back door and ask them as to whether they could be so kind as to trust us with some of their Sweet White Stuff ... and would they care for some " Conversations with ( Real ) Israel's Repwblicans " - ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ge95aGcth7k - " The Last Chance " - Leon Rosselson


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Repwblic
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( dai ) - I just popped over into the administation ( Repwblic ) to have a look to see who these several people are who are online with me here ... all "bots" ? ... ALL FROM THE USA ? ... c'MON ... SIX " search engines " - all at once ?

LOOK GUYS : YOU WILL LEARN NOTHING FROM SURVEILLANCE - YOU WILL ONLY BE ABLE TO LEARN WHAT THIS IS ABOUT BY GOING TO UNIVERSITY AND DOING A PHD : WHY NOT TRY SENDING YOUR " BOTS " OFF TO LEARN SOMETHING FROM INTERPOL ?

https://www.aber.ac.uk/en/interpol/ - their present slogan is - " Discover how The World works - and how to make it better "

These are conventional Republican arguments from centuries ago - but post-modernised.

[ ... And when I posted the above THREE copies of it appeared ! ... ]

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The " bots " are still latched onto repwblic.informe.com the following day : five from msn and apparently only one from Google ... oh ... you thought these companies were friendly ?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that this thread is now way off course - other stuff has happened here ... and this is supposed to be about things happening elsewhere ... but perhaps a last poetic word about Cardiff ...

To:
From:
Date: Wednesday, 26 October 2016, 11:30
Subject: Fw: " The Mariner " ( Finally "" fixed " - but perhaps not finished ? )

Dear xxxx

when this first began to appear I thought - " Ah, this must be for xxxx ! " - but it may not be finished yet ...

Regards,

David B Lawrence

" The Mariner "

Jews of course do not go on ships_
Oh ! - Except my lot : so here are some tips_
When you hear " A Little Squeak " -_
Do not ignore it : let it speak ... _
What it is saying is " Here's The Leak ! "
For what it is saying is " Here's The Leak ! " ... mmm ... A-A-B-B-B ? ... Yet seems OK ?

" The Czarina left me all of her jewels_
To clean them nicely - with my very nice tools -_
But she never paid me one single red zloty_
And so I still have them - here : in this potty !_
Now children : pay all those you owe - and do not be fools ! "

" Great-grand-papa - where did you come from ? "_
" Ah ... from afar - and from the very best pogrom :_
Like Moses up on The Mountain I stood upon The Steppe_
And then with The Key I locked The Door and I then I began to schlep_ " then I " changes rhythm & hints a bit ?
Whilst carrying my hammer in my hand - to straighten out The Frum."
Carrying my hammer in my hand - to straighten out The Frum."

" Great-grand-mama - please tell us : is your Jack now telling lies ? "_
" No - my lovely darlings : this is The Truth - but in disguise ... _
He is teaching you all to distrust men_
And to sift their words - by mouth or pen -_
Because those who deceive ... we must despise."

Now as I wander through Butetown - in seeing things which make me frown -
Now as I wander about and through Butetown_
I wonder about " The Mariner " - and whether he is looking down -_
Because I must confess that I come close to tears_
But I ought to confess that I come close to tears_
For I must confess that I come close to tears_

When he demands The Truth that - despite my fears -_
There must be no-one more serious than The Clown.
There can be none more serious than The Clown.
There can be no-one more serious than The Clown. ... ( I have written about " The Non-Theist God as Harlequin " )


So what is The Truth but a ship which is sailing ?_
Keeping it floating requires a hammer and nailing_
Then when The Storm is shaking the highest of your trees_
You can still be sailing safely across The Blackest of The Seas_
Whilst laughing and repairing your very own worst failing.

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts the moral right - not to sue for copyright !

OH DEAR - THAT LOOKED OK-ISH WHEN I POSTED IT ... HAVE I NOW UTTERLY RUINED IT ? ...

... I AM BEGINNING TO PREFER THE ORIGINAL MESS - WHICH IS STILL IN THE PHONE :

Jews of course don't go on ships_Oh ! - Except my lot : so here's some tips_When you hear A Little Leek_Do not ignore it : let it speak_It's saying / What it's saying is " Here's The Leak ! " = The Czarina left me all The Royal Jewels_To repair them all - with these here / To clean them ( up ) nicely with / all my nice tools / these / my tools -_But she never paid me one red zloty_( so ) They are still under the bed - ( there - ) in that old potty / I keep them in my potty ! / Where I have kept / keep them still - in that old potty_Now / So - ( my ) great-grand-children ! - pay ( all ) those you owe - and don't be foolish ! // all debts we must pay - so don't be foolish ! = Great-grand-papa - where did you come from ?_Ah ... from far across The Blackest Sea - and from / a bloody / the very best pogrom ... _Like Moses up/on The Mountain I stood upon The Steppe_( And ) Then I locked The Door and with The Key I then began to schlep_And with my hammer in my hand I straightened out The Frum = Great-grand-mama - please tell us : is your Jack now telling lies ?_No - my lovely darlings : he tells you / is telling The Truth - but ( tells you ) in disguise_He is teaching you to distrust men_To sift their words by mouth or pen_Because those who deceive we must / he does despise = Now as I wander ( down ) through ( town ) Butetown_I think " The Mariner " / I think is / looking down_I know it / because / I / must / confess / I'm close to tears_When He demands The Truth despite my fears_" God's Money / That wisdom / The Truth is spoken by / belongs to / those who clown./ That / there is nobody / To speak it / That there is nobody as serious as / a clown / The Clown = So - what is The Truth but a sailing ship ? / So what is The Truth but a ship that is sailing ?_To keep it afloat requires hammers /a hammer / and nailing / Keeping it floating requires hammers and nailing_And then / you can cross / when you sail across The / very best / Blackest Sea_/ And / then / with it then you can sail across The Blackest Sea_/ And / Then when The Storm is shaking your toppermost tree / the sails upon The Tree / And when The Storm is shaking your very own tree _You can then sit and laugh / at your own worst failing. / your own worst failing./ at the worst of your failing._To keep it afloat you must listen for leaks_A man with a suitcase making a trip.


The Clown. ... ( I have written about " The Non-Theist God as Harlequin " ) ... let me try to explain that ... think of each religious tradition as being the record of a number of particular encounters with ... er ... " # " ... so if we could study every text we might see how - in our Western cultures - Monotheism is in fact one continuous thing : a patchwork of religions in which our Western cultures have clothed " # " which if we were capable of standing back in order to view him we might see The Cosmic Clown in The Harlequin Costume who has played this joke upon us - i.e. what we know of " # " would look a lot like the costume of Harlequin - patches of our own making, woven by us and sewed together by us, for us to clothe in the words of our ideologies the histories of the spiritual experiences which are recorded in Monotheism ... Now try to catch hold of some part of the costume of this Harlequin : whichever patch you try to seize upon will immediately come away in your hand - this costume which we have fashioned for " # " will tear along every seam and you will be left holding this empty Harlequin costume in your hand that we have made whilst " # " invisibly skips away - in convulsions of silent laughter ... Laughing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheism ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

In my own case - in brief - both sides of my family - certainly back in the 1960s - viewed religion as " A Good Thing " - and in my parents' case whilst they wanted us to receive some religious instruction as children the options available in the small town where we lived were limited to the local parish church ( i.e. Anglican ) and a chapel ( which at the time was " Congregationalist " - i.e. the proper name for what you may know by the abusive term " Puritan " - a denomination which has since been merged with others of a similar sort as " The United Reformed Church.") My parents would never vote Conservative so we were sent to where The Labour & Coopertive Party in the town worshiped - and I mean sent : my parents thought that this was good for us - not them ! ... By the time I was sixteen I was the star pupil in Sunday School - i.e. in the 1970s the only young adult the chapel had left - and on my sixteenth birthday I was invited to join The Cause and ... I accepted The Bible ( it is still within reach here beside me nearly forty years later - but I actually prefer my battered old seaman's KJB for sentimental reasons ) ... but I turned down Christianity - indeed all text based religions - primarily because I was being a smart-arse ...

... In studying the artifacts of The People in Primitive States I had read Rasmussen and decided that Spirituality was " real " and the universal human experience which gives rise to the ideas transmitted by Religion which interprets it by providing a tradition of such ideas ... so whilst of course all of these diverse various religious traditions are doubtful they must be originally founded upon the experiences of Spirituality which so many of them refer to ... but these religions have been corrupted by those who seize upon these traditions and then use them to assert their own personal authority without having had any of the spiritual experiences which are the non-personal sources of religious authority ... So I set out to entirely clear away the clutter of texts in my mind by practicing emptying it of words in order to find out whether I could actually have some of these spiritual experiences in order to be able to test the various belief systems on offer ... I soon came to the conclusion that the difference between Religion and Spirituality was that in practicing the latter as an individual my personal experiences ought to be tested against that of others : in other words I accepted the basic premise of " Re-ligion " - that it is a collective enterprise ...

... So I draughted a proposal for a religious discipline in which there could be no leaders so that nobody could seize control of it and proclaim themselves a guru or priest or rabbi and ... then I encountered The Quakers ... and I thought - " Oh ! - For three hundred and thirty two years The Religious Society of Friends have already been performing a similar experiment to what I propose ! - Why should I assume that I can do better ? " ... Meanwhile my sister became enamoured of her Jewish-ish-ish-ish-ness and gradually we became antagonists both religiously and politically ... and whenever I encountered the self-appointed spokespeople for Ersatz Israel - like certain friends of hers - the antagonism was strident and sometimes bitter ... but not necessarily unfruitful : I gave more attention to Judaism as a result ... Quakerism is in many respects Judaism's antagonist in that its central aesthetic involves destroying all boundaries : God is One, The World is One, The People is One, dai is certainly one ... one who began to be irritated by The Muddle Way in Quakerism : a lot of The People in Quakerism are refugees from authoritarian religions such as Orthodox Judaism, Shia Islam, Roman Catholicism - and Congregationalism - and whenever anybody like me tries to explain Quakerism clearly there are hysterical choruses of protests against " CREDALISM ! " ...

... This is no place to explain The Muddle Way except to say that whilst everybody else in Quakerism tends to be within their comfort zone within this muddle - I am not : I am living in particularly stressful chronic circumstances which are resulting in my moral resolve to be a good person is being weakened ... Soon after I began this thread I decided that since I knew that the usual Liberal-Lefty sort of critique of " Israel " never works then I might try to subsume a Jewish critique and - as you know - feeble though that is it has led me into an unexpected revelation : obviously I care a lot more about Judaism than I was aware ... even before this however I was fretting about how I was going to make myself accountable locally to the practicing Jewish community : from my own sensibilities they are all entitled to know whose door to knock on ... on the other hand I have had some bad run-ins with some of them in the past over " Ersatz Israel " ... To cut a long story short I found a remedy for the weakening of my moral resolve ... I really appreciate being able to stand to declare " The Right Things " in my local schul ... but - whilst I have no particular problem in holding together Quakerism and Judaism inside my head - I have been having - as you have witnessed - something of a public identity crisis over these past few years.

The fruitful thing to come out of this is to recover once again the sense that I am myself : an individual making choices - " Y "
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hurrah - what a relief : I " knew " that this was around - The People in " Israel " are finally turning on their government !

I wish that I had been more " on the ball " - but better late than never -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/these-israeli-women-marched-from-the-lebanese-border-to-jerusalem-heres-why/2016/10/19/a9b67618-b92c-4c7a-9ad8-d992477e7db1_story.html

These Israeli women marched from the Lebanese border to Jerusalem. Here’s why.

Ruth Eglash - 19 October 2016

JERUSALEM — Two weeks ago, a small group of Israeli women set off on a protest march to Jerusalem from northern Israel to demand that the Israeli government restart a peace process with the Palestinians. ... On Wednesday, after reaching the Palestinian city of Jericho in the West Bank, the core group of 20 women were joined by more than 3,000 others, including about 1,000 Palestinian women. ... Although most of the Palestinians could not proceed beyond the barrier that separates the West Bank from Israel, the Israeli women headed for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s formal residence, where they held an emotional rally. ... The group, which calls itself Women Wage Peace, is made up of women from across the political spectrum and the religious divide. At the rally, many held banners reading, “Right, Center and Left are all calling for an agreement, Women Wage Peace.” ... “We are not an organization; we are a movement. We have defined goals, and when we reach those goals we will disband,” said Marie-Lyne Smadja, a co-founder of the group. “From history we have seen that when women are involved in resolving conflicts, there was much more success.” ... Organizers of the group points to U.N. Resolution 1325, which “urges all actors to increase the participation of women and incorporate gender perspectives in all United Nations peace and security efforts.” They say that it worked in Northern Ireland and in Liberia. ... "


There is a link in that article ( do read all of it please ) to another article by Ruth Eglash -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/10/18/most-palestinians-support-abbass-claim-that-britain-is-to-blame-for-the-israeli-occupation-poll-finds/?tid=a_inl

Most Palestinians still blame Britain for the Israeli occupation, poll finds

Ruth Egalsh - 18 October 2016

JERUSALEM — At last month’s gathering of the U.N. General Assembly, Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas placed the responsibility for the 50-year-long Israeli occupation of his people squarely on the shoulders of the British. ... “Yes, 100 years have passed since the notorious Balfour Declaration, by which Britain gave, without any right, authority or consent from anyone, the land of Palestine to another people,” he said. That declaration, Abbas said, “paved the road for the Nakba of the Palestinian people and their dispossession and displacement from their land.” Nakba, or the catastrophe, is the term used by the Palestinians in reference to the 1948 war. ... ... The words of the Palestinian Authority president were immediately mocked by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who took the U.N. lectern less than an hour later. Netanyahu joked: “He's preparing a lawsuit against Britain for that declaration from 1917. That's almost 100 years ago — talk about being stuck in the past.” ... “The Palestinians may just as well sue Iran for the Cyrus Declaration, which enabled the Jews to rebuild our Temple in Jerusalem 2,500 years ago. Come to think of it, why not a Palestinian class-action suit against Abraham for buying that plot of land in Hebron where the fathers and mothers of the Jewish people were buried 4,000 years ago? You're not laughing. It's as absurd as that. To sue the British government for the Balfour Declaration? Is he kidding? And this is taken seriously here?” Netanyahu said. ... "

And therein is the essence of the problem : I have on occasions recently been marching up and down in the kitchen lecturing Bibi but he has been even less inclined to listen than Arik was when I lectured him in the same way - and Arik had already become a zombie before I first lectured him - which was before he became a living corpse - before he went into that coma ...

... in my view of things The People in Palestine are naturally caught up in reactions to what The State of Israel does to them and The People in " Israel " ( " Israel " in inverted commas because the term applies to all Jewry and pertains to a people not any property ) suffer as a consequence of these reactions : this is The Left Hand Path of Sinister Politics - of action and reaction - which sends any society downwards into a vicious cycle of violence and violent retaliation ... but on both sides there are The People on The Right Hand Path of Dextrous Politics - of refusing to react to violence with violence : they are amazing people and I have had the privilege to meet a few of them from both sides and thus that is where my faith lies - ah - but The Hierocracy for its faith lies ... and these priests of the press releases make a point of obscuring The Truth of The People in Israel and Palestine who campaign for Peace : before the internet it was extremely difficult to find out whether my faith in them was well founded - it is : but it is still very difficult to know what is truly happening on the ground ... let me make a prediction : The Demockerats in The Knesset are in fact way out of touch with reality - they are caught up in a belief system which they are emotionally compelled to believe in and are refusing to accept the realities of the society in which they are living which is why they resort to using violence upon those who do not conform with their wishes ... and that is why they are tacitly endorsing the violence of the non-politicals which is being perpetrated against The Peaceniks in Israel - in order to make it normal and acceptable and then to use this to explain that they have provoked it, that these are Jews who do not properly understand Judaism and therefore that they are apostates of The Tru-ish Jew-ish Faith of Zion-ish and must all be put into concentration camps ... at least ... for their own safety ...
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if anybody is bothering to read this at the moment : things are ... both different and the same over in Israel-Palestine ... indifferent perhaps ...

Meanwhile I try to address other issues on the board and answered a post by Marianne by discussing things touching upon my identity crisis going on here ...

http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=4380#4380
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dullard that I am ... Marianne pointed out to me at the weekend that -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_Judaism

Haredi is a Modern Hebrew adjective derived from the Biblical verb hared which appears in the Book of Isaiah ( 66:2; its plural haredim appears in Isaiah 66:5 ) and is translated as " [one who] trembles " at the word of God. The word connotes an awe-inspired fear and anxiety to perform the will of God and is used to describe staunchly Orthodox Jews ( similar to the definition used by the Christian Quakers ) and to distinguish them from other Orthodox Jews.

- which I naturally find very interesting because I do not accept the story of George Fox being the originator of either the Religious Society of Friends or Quakerism : I know that William Erbery originated the former and I reckon that his co-worker Martha Simmonds was somebody who had encountered the group first recorded as Quakers who probably came from Amsterdam ... and I have suspected that they were Sephardi Jews and I know that Spinoza associated with Quakers ... anyhow ... Haredim are notable for their anti-Zionist stances ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_Judaism

" Haredi Judaism ( Hebrew: חֲרֵדִי Ḥaredi, IPA: [χaʁeˈdi]; also spelled Charedi, plural Charedim ) is a broad spectrum of groups within Orthodox Judaism, all characterized by rejection of modern secular culture. Its members are often referred to as strictly Orthodox or ultra-Orthodox in English. ... In contrast to Modern Orthodox Judaism, which hastened to embrace modernity, the approach of the Haredim was to maintain a steadfast adherence both to Jewish Law and custom by segregating themselves from modern society. ... Haredi communities are primarily found in Israel, North America, and Western Europe. ...

... Haredi Judaism is not an institutionally cohesive or homogeneous group, but comprises a diversity of spiritual and cultural orientations, generally divided into a broad range of Hasidic sects, Lithuanian-Yeshivish streams from Eastern Europe, and Oriental Sephardic Haredim. ... Haredi Jews are typically opposed to the viewing of television and films, and the reading of secular newspapers and books. There has been a strong campaign against the Internet and internet-enabled mobile phones without filters have also been banned by many leading rabbis. ... Haredi neighborhoods attempt to be free of violent crime. In Israel, the entrances to some ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods are fitted with signs asking that modest clothing be worn. Some areas are known to have "modesty patrols", and people dressed in ways perceived as immodest may suffer harassment, and advertisements featuring scantily dressed models may be targeted for vandalism. ... In the UK the largest communities are located in London, particularly the Haredi community of Stamford Hill, and in the Greater Manchester areas of Salford, and Prestwich; as well as in the Jewish community of Gateshead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredim_and_Zionism

From the start of political Zionism in the 1890s, Haredi leaders voiced objection to its secular orientation, and before the establishment of the State of Israel, the vast majority of Haredi Jews were opposed to Zionism. This was chiefly due to the concern that secular nationalism would replace the Jewish faith and the observance of religion, and the view that it was forbidden for the Jews to re-constitute Jewish rule in the Land of Israel before the arrival of the Messiah. Those rabbis who did support Jewish settlement in Palestine in the late 19th century had no intention of conquering Palestine from the Ottoman Turks, and some preferred that only observant Jews be allowed to settle there. ... Around 80% of Israeli Jews identify as secular, and of the 20% who identity as religious, 6% are Haredi. ... The relationship between Haredim and Zionism became more complex after the founding of the State of Israel in 1948. Some Haredi groups adopted a pragmatic position, and involved themselves in the political process of the state by voting in elections and accepting state funding. ...

... Others have maintained a more hardline rejectionist position, refusing all funding from the Israeli state and abstaining from taking part in the political process. ... there is a substantial difference in the positions taken by Ashkenazi and Sephardi Haredim, the latter generally being quite supportive of Zionism. ... United Torah Judaism and Shas are the only two Haredi parties in the Israeli Knesset which advocate a halachic state. In addition, even the anti-Zionist Satmar Hasidim do take part in municipal elections in some places, such as the Haredi stronghold of Bnei Brak. ... [ NOW THE HAREDIM ARE BEGINNING TO SOUND TO ME LIKE " PURE REPUBLICANS " ] ... Many Haredim see Zionism as another battle against forces within who are out to redefine and eradicate traditional Judaism. ... [ WHICH ACCORDS WITH MY ARGUMENT THAT JUDAISM AND ZIONISM ARE ANTAGONISTS : A THESIS AND AN ANTI-THESIS ] ... Historically, many dynasties in Hasidism have expressed anti-Zionist opinions because of the 'Three Oaths'. The Talmud, in Ketubot 111a, mentions that the Jewish people have been bound by three oaths: 1) not to ascend to Eretz Yisrael (the Land of Israel) as a group using force; 2) not to rebel against the nations of the world; and 3) that the nations of the world would not persecute the nation of Israel excessively. ... [ WELL I THINK THAT THE THIRD IS RATHER TOO MUCH TO BEAR - REALLY ! ] ...

... Lithuanian religious Jews oppose the state not because of the three oaths midrash but because they feel that Zionism epitomizes secularity and Jewish desire to be void of Torah. ... Generally speaking, most Sephardi Haredi authorities have never shared the anti-Zionism of their Ashkenazi counterparts ... However, there are anti-Zionist elements in the Sefardic communities as well ... There are a number Haredi groups which not only oppose Zionism, but also do not recognize the State of Israel ... The largest anti-Zionist Hasidic group is Satmar, which has around 130,000 adherents worldwide. ... The group’s position was crystallized by their charismatic leader, Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum, who ... [ ... Anxious not to be viewed as supportive of the actions of the secular Israeli government ... ] ... authored comprehensive and polemic tracts detailing his opposition to Zionism. He encouraged his followers who lived in the "Holy Land" to form self-sufficient communities, rejecting social state benefits, and not to vote in general elections ... [ I LOVE THIS GUY ALREADY ] ... One of the most extreme sects is the Neturei Karta ... A faction within the group ... calls for the "peaceful dismantling of the Zionist entity" ... [and] ... openly supports the PLO and Hamas ... [ OUCH : I DO NOT THINK THAT THE LATTER ARE VERY ... UM ... SUPPORTABLE ]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tal_committee#Tal_Law

[ THIS IS THE LAW ABOUT VARIOUS CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTIONS TO MILITARY SERVICE ] ... On May 11, 2006, the Supreme Court determined that the Tal Law conflicted with the human dignity of those who serve in the Israeli Army and that the law was implemented in a vague way that did not constitute a "worthy purpose" that would justify damage to rights of those who serve. However, the court determined that the law should be left untouched for an additional year and a half to see if its application would improve. Two judges held a minority opinion. Judge Mishael Cheshin determined that the law was illegitimate from its foundation, and completely contradicted the values of Israel as a Jewish democratic state, and Judge Asher Grunis said that the Court shouldn't interfere with Knesset decisions unless they damage rights of minorities, whereas in this case the damaged part is the majority, which must take care of its own rights ... On July 18, 2007 the Knesset decided to extend the Tal Law for another five years, to August 2012 ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Israeli_protests

... In 2013, several independent protests occurred in Israel. In May, the Tal Law ruling in 2012 led to protests by Haredi against conscription. ... Following announcements that the new government plans to gradually incorporate the Haredi Jewish population of Israel into the country's armed forces, there were widespread protests against the government and the draft. On 16 May of that year, between 15,000 and 30,000 Haredim demonstrated outside an IDF recruiting office in Jerusalem. Some reportedly threw stones and bottles at police and called them Nazis. ...

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/a-day-after-violent-protest-haredi-coverage-ranges-from-delicate-criticism-to-complete-disregard.premium-1.524570

... [ ABANDONED : I DO HAVE A LIFE SOMEWHERE ELSE ... IF I CAN FIND IT ]
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yZOFaX6K1pE = lecture / debate by Johnathan Israel on Tolerance

I am not sure where to post this - I dozed in the middle but it woke me up to listen harder around 1hr 20min - very worthwhile ... Utterly irrelevant of course as far as Lil' Sis and her Zionist friends are concerned ... all voted with no exceptions and no abstentions not to talk to me ever again indeed ... BLOODY DEMOCRATS ... please note that in this lecture Israel equated " Democracy " with Republicanism and mistakenly assumed that somehow Hitler got elected in some sort of freak political accident ... No : that political freak show is Democracy.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I must admit that upon this I do frown_To see that closeted wife dressed up in blue with a crown_Being brought out to be praised & paraded around_Whilst she can not utter any critical sound_When they spread both her legs & then lay her down. = dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : moral right.

Now I must admit that upon this I do frown_
To see that closeted wife dressed up in blue with a crown_
Being brought out to be praised & paraded around_
Whilst she can not utter any critical sound_
When they spread both her legs & then lay her down.

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !

A number of things going on but I can not summon the imagination to dig something out of them to comment upon ... I suppose that I am a little concerned that whilst I approve of the above sort of position as espoused by the Haredi I really do not think that if they were in charge of things that The Open Society would spontaneously result ... My own sort of headbangers are more likely I think to bring down that ####ing wall between the two sides ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xhd8DkKUZ4U

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post Script - on the one hand I found the imagery in that proem compelling - on the other hand whilst I know that the whole point of such an idea so briefly stated is to invite interpretations ... to throw a spanner in the works of reason ... never the less some will reason in a paranoid way that I was - or am - or will be - holding Judaism or Jews in contempt ... no : it is just because I am here dealing with the sleep-walking hypocrisy which enraged me for decades - which I deem Lil'Sis to have been drawn into by her Zionist friends to the point where she contradicts what she professes ... damning me for what she perceives to be the moral laissez-faire of Quakerism whilst she repeated things sanctioned by others ... better leave it there : for my part as a teenager I decided that spirituality is our respone to our human experience and religion the human social activity of trying to make sense of things ... As such I regard Judaism as a great treasury of the record of such activities and therefore those who take the care to keep it safe I have a lot of respect for because of the time and effort involved - but I am not prepared to be uncritical ...

... It may help to explain how I feel about those who like to proclaim themselves to be Quakers : either because they think that they agree with what Quakers believe or because they actually once attended worship a few times or perhaps because they actually applied to become members and were accepted and yet have not been to worship for years ... They are often shocked to learn that RSoF no longer count them to be members if they do not show up for worship and can not be contacted to ask why : their membership is then terminated ... Several years ago I explained it this way : it is not good subscribing to the idea of bathing - you actually have to do it and regularly or you stink ... By the same measure I treated my Jewish-ish-ish-ness as merely a curiosity - but for Lil'Sis it has been substantially more a part of her life and therefore a more legitimate part of her identity and therefore both a platform for her to criticise me from and some common ground for us to debate upon ... especially because whilst I refuse to ascribe divine authority to any text I have The Torah, Testament and Koran by my bedside and others beside ready to hand ...

... What I like to read are things like proverbs and so I like Hassidic sages etc - and this is why I was delighted when on my twentieth birthday I was dubbed " Dai Saw " after I responded to criticism of my carpentry skills with a practical joke to demonstrate them played upon my critic ... A " saw " is of course a witty or allusive proverbial remark - and I liked to contrive mine with teeth ... although to be honest I am a little ashamed both of my needlessly cutting people up in the past and with such a blunt instrument as my wit ... which sort of brings me back to the proem above : I see in it several things - and I will probably see some more if I think about it - but I have made the same remarks about others who profess a religion and then thoughtlessly transgress its most basic moral teachings ... the image to me suggests not rape so much as thoughtlessness ... It goes for me with this strange jealousy which has emerged whilst I write this thread : it is like having to cross a street to intervene in front of a crowd of idle but curious onlookers in order to stop a husband abusing his wife ... I care ...

... As to legs being spread and persons being laid down ... probably arguably me : Lil'Sis' allegation that Quakerism is laissez faire is not true - it is just that Quakers are very hostile to the kinds of lazy verbal formulae used in conventional religions ( and not just creeds ... ) ... Hillel's oft quoted remark about " If I am not for myself ... " I never liked other than to emphasise that I interpret this to mean " If I do not speak for myself ... " otherwise it tends to endorse the idea of selfishness which he did not intend : Hillel's challenge is the same as that in Quakerism - do not just repeat these forms of words and use your ability to do so as a means to assert your personal authority ... the words refer to the things which have authority : ultimately it is God who possesses sovereignty not The State ... laws are but somebody's understanding of justice written down and if their understanding is defective then their laws are defective and must be re-written if our understanding of justice progresses : this was once the glory of The Talmud yet now many of those enamoured of it refuse to address its defects. Yet at least in The Synagogue I stand with others and we can clearly chorus in direct statements about what " The Good Things " are - whereas in The Meeting House I sit with others and we clearly refrain from direct statements about what " The Good Things " are : there is only The Silence Within - and some literature provided for when we can not find it ...

... which means that in being very distressed in recent years I have read a lot about who begat what ... which I believe should really be studied in a schul : I was drawing heavily on The Torah and at times I felt like a thief ... That being said I have always found alarming those who are very loud about being Jewish, who have bought the F.o.I. T-shirt, badge and bumper sticker, shouted and screamed about traitors to " Israel," yet know next to nothing about Judaism in comparison to me - and I know very little more ... I have had some very bitter rows with such naive hypocrites over the decades ... but on the other hand when I have had opportunities to talk with those actually caught up in the Israel-Palestine conflict they seem to hold views very similar to mine ... Especially an IDF officer whom I met once whose opinion was that I was basically getting it right : it is a bloody mess and there are no good solutions - certainly no simple ones - except that this conflict will never end without the desire on both sides for justice.

As to religious identities ... we are all the same - because - we are all different ... religion is the human activity of comparing our spiritualities : take an interest in other people's experiences and understandings - but be wary of being coerced to validate others by agreeing that you should be like them ... Your life contains valid information - however ugly or strange.

This whole thread has become far too introspective : back to the job in hand ... maybe I should just go back to playing the banjo ... a bit safer ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0HvSjXPeiA
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not know what to say ... a parting gesture ... of little real use ? ... one hour ago ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38421026

Israeli settlements: UN Security Council calls for an end [ VIDEO ]

The United Nations Security Council has passed a resolution urging an end to illegal Israeli settlements after the US refused to veto it. ... The US has traditionally sheltered Israel from condemnatory resolutions. ... Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu said he would not abide by the vote. ... The Palestinian leadership welcomed the resolution, which was passed by 14 votes to zero, with one abstention. ... President-elect Trump, who will be inaugurated on 20 January, tweeted after the vote: "As to the UN, things will be different after Jan. 20th."

US policy reverse : By Barbara Plett Usher

The resolution reflects an international consensus that the growth of Israeli settlement-building has come to threaten the viability of a Palestinian state in any future peace deal. ... It is a view strongly shared by the Obama administration, and for that reason the US reversed its policy of vetoing any UN Security Council criticism of Israel. ... In a statement, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office said: "Israel rejects this shameful anti-Israel resolution at the UN and will not abide by its terms. ...
"The Obama administration not only failed to protect Israel against this gang-up at the UN, it colluded with it behind the scenes. Israel looks forward to working with President-elect Trump and with all our friends in Congress, Republicans and Democrats alike, to negate the harmful effects of this absurd resolution." ...

[ I FIND NETANYAHU'S REMARKS CHILLING : I WONDER WHAT HAARETZ IS SAYING ?] [ I SPOTTED FOUR ARTICLES ]

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.761011

Netanyahu: 'Obama Colluded Against Israel' at Security Council ( Barak Ravid )

“Israel rejects the contemptible, anti-Israel UN resolution and will not subordinate itself to it,” the bureau said.  ... Israel said it will impose sanctions on two states that pushed for the UN Security Council resolution against Israeli settlements. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ordered the Israeli ambassadors in New Zealand and Senegal for consultation. Israel does not have diplomatic ties with the two other states that called for a vote on the resolution – Venezuela and Malaysia.

[ AW ... I THOUGHT THAT NETANYAHU OBJECTED TO SANCTIONS & BDS ? ]

"This is a difficult night for Israel," Opposition leader Isaac Herzog (Zionist Union) said following the vote. "I strongly oppose this harsh resolution of the UN Security Council, which is a strategic defeat for Israel." ... Saying that the United States should have vetoed the resolution, Herzog said the motion "seriously harms our capital Jerusalem, the settlement blocs and Israel's status and diplomatic achievements accumulated over the years." A reasonable and responsible government would have prevented it, he said. ... ... ... Meretz leader Zehava Galon said that she was happy the U.S. administration did not veto the resolution which was “against the policy of annexation and settlement and not against Israel.” The resolution, she added, was “the direct result of the law to legalize settlements, with Israel having lost all its shame and the world having lost its patience.”

[ QUITE A LOT OF INTERESTING STUFF - AND BOUND TO BE SOME MORE ]
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a Happy Humanist Humbug at Hanukka ? = The United States has to Israel stayed true :_In finally confronting that fool Netanyahu -_They have befriended The People on both sides of The Wall_By refusing to lie - and although yet it won't fall_They have challenged injustice and thus given hope to a few

Having a Happy Humanist Humbug at Hanukka ? =

The United States has to Israel stayed true :_
In finally confronting that fool Netanyahu -_
They have befriended The People on both sides of The Wall_
By refusing to lie - and although yet it won't fall_
They have challenged injustice and thus given hope to a few.

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !

{ The reply was " indeed " }

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38431399
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have got out of bed to reflect on the ... possibly changing ? ... situation ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38455049

[ SAME VIDEO ? KERRY'S SPEECH WAS BASICALLY SOUND AND SENSIBLE ]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38451258

US Secretary of State John Kerry has said the prospect of an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal based on a two-state solution is in grave jeopardy. And he insisted UN condemnation of illegal Jewish settlements on occupied land was in line with American values. ... Earlier, US President-elect Donald Trump tweeted in support of Israel, saying he would not allow it to be treated with "disdain and disrespect". He urged Israel to "stay strong" until he assumed office next month. ...

... In his reply, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he was disappointed with the US secretary of state's speech, which he said was "unbalanced". ... Mr Kerry, he said, had "paid lip service to the unremitting Palestinian campaign of terrorism" against Israel. ... The conflict, Mr Netanyahu added, centred on the Palestinians' refusal to recognise Israel's right to exist, but Mr Kerry "does not see the simple truth". ...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-29/john-kerry-says-settlements-put-middle-east-peace-in-jeopardy/8151858

Israel's building of settlements on occupied land is jeopardising Middle East peace, US Secretary of State John Kerry said, voicing unusually frank frustration with America's longtime ally weeks before he is due to leave office. ... In a 70-minute speech, Mr Kerry said Israel "will never have true peace" with the Arab world if it does not reach an accord based on Israelis and Palestinians living in their own states. ...

http://www.timesofisrael.com/full-text-of-netanyahus-response-to-kerry-speech-on-mideast-peace/

December 29, 2016, 1:12 am - Full text of Netanyahu’s response to Kerry speech on Mideast peacePM fumes at ‘a speech almost as unbalanced as anti-Israel resolution passed at UN,’ in which ‘Kerry paid lip service to the unremitting Palestinian campaign of terrorism’ ... What he did was to spend most of his speech blaming Israel for the lack of peace by passionately condemning a policy of enabling Jews to live in their historic homeland and in their eternal capital, Jerusalem. ... Hundreds of suicide bombings, thousand, tens of thousands of rockets, millions of Israelis in bomb shelters are not throwaway lines in a speech; they’re the realities that the people of Israel had to endure because of mistaken policies, policies that at the time won the thunderous applause of the world. I don’t seek applause; I seek the security, and peace, and prosperity and the future of the Jewish state. ... [ WORTH READING ACTUALLY ... BUT I AM TOO TIRED FOR THIS TONIGHT ]

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israeli-politicians-react-to-Kerrys-Middle-East-speech-476788

Israeli officials spanning across the political spectrum responded to US Secretary of State John Kerry's speech after the American official outlined his vision for Middle East peace in Washington DC Wednesday. ... Kerry claimed an historically right-wing government in Israel is pushing their nation toward annexation of the West Bank, intentionally eroding the viability of a Palestinian state through its settlement enterprise with the goal of creating a "permanent one-state reality." ... Coalition partner and leader of the pro-settlement faction in the Knesset, Education Minister Naftali Bennett (Bayit Yehudi), also remarked on Kerry's speech, saying that Israel should not support the establishment of a Palestinian state. "If it was up to me, we would not allow the establishment of another terror state in the heart of the country," Bennett said, rejecting Kerry's call to preserve a two-state solution. ... But Israel envoy to the UN Danny Danon rejected Kerry's assertion, saying the Obama administration's abstention at the UNSC damaged prospects for ending the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. ... "To coordinate anti-Israel steps with the Palestinians and to advance one-sided resolutions against Israel at the Security Council is not support for Israel, it's the opposite," Danon said. ...

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I think that although they are not openly saying it the Americans ( i.e. The Democratic Party ) are anticipating what I am : Netanyahu is about to go for final conquest in 2017 ( and Trump may well already be working with him ) in order to impose a one-size-misfits-all final solution ... I think that Kerry is trying to distance The USA from what Netanyahu is about to do - but I do not think that this can ever now work : The People in The USA have not asserted the very values which they profess to be fundamental on behalf of both The People in Israel and The People in Palestine - and so they will end up being despised as hypocrites and will be despised by both sides ... by every side - every where ... for what their politicians have done.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I missed this : put it in the same frame ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38462466

Obama and the Middle East - too little, too late ?
- By Paul Adams BBC News

Why now? What's the Obama administration playing at? Isn't it all a bit too little and much too late? ... There's been much scratching of heads since the US took the unusual step of allowing a resolution condemning Israel's settlements policy to pass the UN Security Council last week. ... In The Times of Israel, journalist Avi Issacharoff, said Mr Kerry had set out principles "any reasonable person…knows will form the basis for any future negotiations between the parties". ... But in truth, the Arab-Israeli "peace process" had been moribund for years before Barack Obama took office. ... What might just seem like more of the same - violence, incitement and the growth of Jewish settlements on occupied land - is in fact burying all prospect of a negotiated settlement and a two-state solution. ... Representatives from dozens of countries will meet in Paris in mid-January and it's been suggested that agreements reached there could find their way into another UN Security Council resolution, before Donald Trump takes office. ... [ OK - LET US HOPE FOR SOMETHING & QUICK ? ]
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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2639

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that I begin to regret this thread all over - but then it is not all over : I am very conscious of the possibility of those reading it thinking that it contains everything I think or - even worse - know ... last week a friend pointed out an online course on Judaism thinking that I felt a lack of basic knowledge about Judaism - no ... I think that I lack a basic knowledge about Jews ... or rather a basic knowledge about Jews' attitudes towards Zionism / Ersatz Israel - because generally speaking it is very difficult to draw people out upon the subject other than to receive the standard conventional responses : these are the articles of conventional secular faith such as " So - er ... whose grandson are you - and more importantly do you agree that Israel has the right to exist and that no trew Jew would put mustard on their fish ? " ... You can guess my answers ... that is why I sort of belong to an out group and never get invited to dinner ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=me4FqdrmVBs

The Ultra Orthodox vs. The IDF: Israel's Other Religious War
VICE News
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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2639

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7m_SXXxZv3w

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vhxlQt3ZYRk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=831T9nPd0lc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pw8m4azLcg

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYXdoipaqnY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHE4KrLvj0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LsG32fkm6sE

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GWqz3F3awPk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IbT2jNaz_jg

( = the latter is the view of things which I think is realistic and workable )
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