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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:19 am    Post subject: Llyfr Ymwelwyr - Visitors' Book Reply with quote


I see that there are fifteen people reading the bulletin board this morning, and I take it that they are reading this topic thread because of Cardiff Bay Republican Day. Whenever I log on as administrator to tidy up, quite apart from recent events drawing attention to this thread ( http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=438 ) there are nearly always a few people logged on, but people have rarely written recently - they just read. Perhaps you have nothing to say ?

On the board that preceded this - http://ctd.6.forumer.com - there was a lot of chat and very little political discussion beyond likes and dislikes which bugged several of us, so when we set up the new board we wanted it to be more serious but we kept some of the chat lines going. I guess that these are now not so obvious and easy to find, but to make it less inimidating I'll use the admin controls to bring them altogether and create a visitors book of sorts for people to leave their passing remarks. [ - I have run out of time to mess with the admin controls.]

And have a chat amongst yourselves if you wish to, football and rugby were popular topics with the old crowd - especially when it was v England.

If you sign up to the board, there is a behind the scenes messaging system if you want to ask something of me or other contributors privately. If I reply, it ought to send you an email telling you that you have received a message.

If you get the itch to write on the board about some other topic, please conduct a search first to see if there are topic threads that already exist for your subject of interest - you do not need to answer to things written years ago on that topic, but start right in with what you want to say - this way we do not have proliferating topic threads of a similar nature which can be an admin headache.

The front page of repwblic.org will be changed soon to reflect the changed purpose of Repwblic.org. Previously the purpose was solely to convene " Conversations with Wales' Republicans : Poblachiaethwyr - Repwbligwyr - Gweriniaethwyr " to promote discussions between those on the Left - Centre - Right of Republicanism in Wales. As such, it was neccessary to avoid adopting a particular political Ideology that would estrange potential contributors, since we were trying to stitch the republican movement in Wales back together fifty years after it fell apart over divisions between reds and greens - which we whites thought that we could do if we could persuade people to hold onto their ideologies a little less tightly by gently introducing them to a proper republican meta-ideology. Ah, well ...

People ask me ( dai - David B Lawrence ) why I continue to bother, am I not just foolishly muttering to myself in a corner of the internet here ? The answer is that Pen Ddu and I made a commitment to the rest to do this and maintain it to provide the possibility of a public discussion accessible for all to read and contribute to, to demonstrate some real republican discussion publicly whereas a number of the other original contributors to http://ctd.6.forumer.com have decided to continue with their brand of petty hate politics elsewhere and out of public view. Pen Ddu has not shown up here for three years and is writing a blog I believe, but I find bulletin boards to be more to my taste because they more or less belong to who uses them, which means me I guess at this present moment since I am the only person making contributions recently ...

There has always been a steady stream of visitors to the board, so it seems worthwhile to keep the bulletin board at least. The question was what to do about the parallel project, repwblic.org which was intended for the same political objective which is bringing everybody together into contact atleast with each other regardless of their differences under the brand " repwblic." A key moment was when City State experimented with a Facebook group using the term " repwblic " and it became an immediate problem because people immediately linked with it who were displaying attitudes and symbols that began to give repwblic.org associations that were not of its own making, so at my request he closed it down.

Since the politics on the board increasingly reflect my point of view, because I am now the major contributor, it has been pending for some time as to whether, whilst maintaining the bulletin board as a " republic of letters," repwblic.org should abandon the attempt to eschew any particular political position and be explicitly " white " i.e. Republican Democrat in the tradition of the Enlghtenment in 18th century Wales - and to start arguing publicly with the " black " factions. Explaining the complicated and extensive tradition of real republicanism in Wales instead of just vaguely referring to republicanism is a bit of a tall order in a couple of pages on a web site and this has been reflected upon for a couple of years whilst I have forked out the .org subscription to keep hold of the website etc.

Yr Ardystiad as a campaign against the continued existence of the Treason Felony Act 1848 has changed the nature of repwblic.org which now has to be explicit about its political position in order to pursue this matter, and I plan another campaign for a Welsh Court as well. There are plenty of other sites on the internet arguing for red and green republicanism, so it is not as if adding one more arguing for white republicanism is really going to be a problem. It is not going to change the policy of the bulletin board which is open to all to express whatever points of view that people hold, including those deeply hostile to us. Everybody gets to speak their mind, and hopefully change their minds too.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, four people online for a change - I have been buried under difficult stuff recently and to weary to think of anything else.
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still not writing much at the moment but I note that there is steady stream of visitors and I guess that Geth must look in on occasion but sends me stuff dirctly instead, to which I sometimes reply : my own feelings are for the Open Conspiracy - it is no good having a private discussion because if it is not made public how otherwise are people to decide whether or not they feel an affinity with our political sensibilities ?

Geth is probably the most entertaining of republicans in Wales and spews out long amusing angry diatribes into various blogs such as


and he is nearly always cooking something up, like ' Stryveland '



Dear Geth,

I think that the best way forward is to recreate the image of republicanism not as a fringe interest but as it truly is in my eyes - a way of doing politics that is not fringe at all but actually the way that many people in single issue campaigns are already operating - with arguments well grounded in facts that can not be ignored. It should be regarded as normal.

A basic position to ague is that there should be no Republican Party : anybody who turns tribal and joins a political party trying to bribe the electorate to give them votes in order to seize power on the basis of geting one more vote than some other party is clearly sectarian - they and their tribe have set themselves against their nation i.e. republicans should be loyal to the Res Publica, to the People not to any party - therefore we should be trying to get people of all parties and none to consider republican arguments like this and get republicanism normalised and commonly discussed. It has to be treated as an interesting, mainstream and credible political theory offering ways of dealing with everyday problems.

Most people want to think for themselves, they dislike being bullied into line and conned by party politicians and the kinds of people who thrive in political parties are not the kinds of people we want in government at any level. We need to campaign for a political system that makes good political decisions by making sure that well informed people who have the capacity to understand issues are making the decisions - the only talent that most politicians have is in getting elected : that is the whole problem with democracy.

I am very much in favour of the shock value of arguing that democracy has not only not resolved Wales' problems but that the more democracy we get the more problems we get.

In other words for polemical purposes I am often arguing a hard-line version of Pure Republicanism that political decisions should be made on the basis of what is right not on the basis of what is popular, although in fact I am more the Republican Democrat who for practical purposes accepts voting in order to elect representatives - but thereafter I object to the whips, trading and tribalism of voting upon the decisions to be made. Take your Stryveland Campaign : hopeless in the present political system because political parties have already done their deals behind closed doors - yet if you could enter it as a proposition to be endorsed by the electorate, as happens in many republican systems of governement at each election, then it would at least have a chance of having to be properly discussed in the Welsh Assembly. Pesently politicians can pretend to be interested in many issues that they have no understanding of in order to get themselves elected, then either ignore them until the next election or in obedience to the party or in favour of powerful intererests make decisions that contradict their promises.

David B. Lawrence

Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 08:24:30 +0100

Annwyl ( - was to several of us - )

What is CTD up to with this Republican 'Groups' and Independence Party? whatever, go see I have been planting stuff there some of it promoting CBRD why don't you plant your ideas too?

RETHINK: I cannot see you effectivelly establishing yet another 'Movement' out of this collection of 'Republicanisms' in Wales. even if you did it would be a kind of 'Front' and such does not really work, do I have to explain why and not least as far as Wales is concerned - it should be obvious and to Geoff as well as we have both been there before. I just cannot see whatever you have in mind working with out Political Education and sorting out some 'muppets'. The big divider will be the priorities you put forward that concerns me re a number of areas as I think of as demanding priority. I fear also you will just get a crowd together of Quasai Nationalists not real Republicans at all, and also just 'Joiners' that is of course a remedy for disaster down the line or a pretense of Pub Meetings and Rali Cilmeri Commemorations etc. More of the same, yes? That would be no good, so please get your ideas out there in public domain in advance and let patriots have a think and make their own well worked out contributions not spring things on people. I also want an inkling if it is wise for me to put STRYVELAND CYMRU on hold? I would like to, to take a break or rather retire but if there is unfinnished business not to be dealt with then I cannot put it on hold that would be unwise on a promise? So, I am hoping you pull it off but I have not seen or heard anything to make me think otherwise.

Whatever, am not going to publically criticise unless I have some real reason to do so and would give you benefit of my doubt up to Vyrnwy in September. As the 'Stryveland' Patriots Platform stands, if no speakers step forward, I shall reduce it's status to just SBN for an hour and motivate more towards the WALL OF WELSH DISCONTENT. whilst BC may lead the March to the Barricade, there most pertinant for Republicans then to be to the fore as Republicans plus Barricades add up. This way you will possibly see the potential of a merger into BC, then possibly with mature patriots as you two in there, that I critcise BC for may disappear?

Myself, feel your best way forward is to really suss so called 'republicans' out well, most i already have which is why I am with the 'Great Unrest' and politically staying there and focusing on our and my priorities staying well clear of any neo - cultural Nationalism. Whatever, feel best for you his to establish a Republican Directorate (of good Republicans) and set out to establish regional Directorates focusing then on establishing Republican Clubs to Politically educate and carry out community agit - prop activity that a small group can manage. As for a here and now 'Movement', why not join Balchder Cymru and radicalise they out of Russell's 'Plaid Poodle' hands. BC is pretty well set up and capable of some good things, get aboard and straighten them out, why yet another 'Movement; that is no better organised or prepared fro action.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subject: RE: Legal Republicanism book & A STAB AT DEFINING REPUBLICANISM
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:23:34 +0000

( Gruff apparently is another visitor who leaves no comments ... he asked me " I also wanted to ask you; what would be your definition of a republic if you had to simplify it down to a few lines say? " Of course I can not ... )

Dear Gruff,

( My answer is in red amongst this babble )

I take in a broad view of republicanism, it has passed through several phases and it tends to be oppositional to the established regime i.e. when people are unhappy about their political system they start to propose alternatives and in order to conceptualize those alternatives they trawl through and draw upon many different ideas.

The difference between ' republican ' and ' republicanism ' can be argued to be that between the actual politics of the Roman Republic as discussed by Cicero etc who were commenting on contemporary events and developing a theoretical critique of an actual political system - and everybody else who has since drawn upon the tradition of theoretical political criticism that has been built upon that foundation, which goes back to Socrates' arguments as described in Plato's ' Politeia ' - which is commonly called ' Plato's Republic ' but ' republic ' is Latin not Greek.

In the first instance during the Renaissance Republican period roughly 1450 - 1650 they were just rediscovering the political systems of the ancient world because of the huge number of manuscripts pouring out of the libraries of Constantinople in the hands of refugees fleeing west to Christendom or plunderers taking them east into Islam. This isn't strictly true, but it is a sort of foundation myth of Republicanism that these ideas erupted out of Constantinople's libraries and changed the politics of both the west and the east. In both cases monotheist religions had to deal with a political theory that assumed a plurality of belief systems which neither Christianity nor Islam allowed, and that political theory once grafted onto religious convictions resulted in the religious wars of the 16c - 17c, until in Europe the value of the pagan pluralism of belief systems in classical times came to be re-assessed and religious tolerance developed etc. and eventually philosophy replaced religion as the source of ideas for conceptualizing political alternatives.

An example of this move from religion to philosophy as the source of ideas is Rousseau's ' The General Will ' - I thought until recently that he originated the idea and that it is entirely secular, but no - it has a previous origin in religious argument, that God's general will is what is found in scripture : Rousseau's departure was to say that people should write their own laws and not be bound by religious tradition but test its meaning for themselves. Philosophy as the source of ideas characterized Neo-Classical Republicanism 1650 - 1850 but since 1850 science has become the main source of ideas that characterizes Modern Republicanism : some would argue that there has been since 1950 Post-Modern Republicanism. It is a constantly developing political discourse that by its very nature of trying to reconcile different points of view constantly synthesizes : it is fun !!!

So : I would define a republic as a political system that has been designed in accordance with an ideology that directs its operation i.e. it is characterized by the rule of laws that embody that ideology, and anybody can get justice by citing those laws and invoking that ideology - wherein lies the problem : historically the ideologies governing republics have been less than perfect. There have been intolerant religious republics like Geneva, murderous philosophical republics like that of the first French republic, and genocidal scientific republics like the German Third Reich -and all three of those had impeccable democratic credentials : Calvin, Robespierre and Hitler were all freely elected and widely adored.

The question to pose therefore is " What kind of ideology do we want to have our lives ordered by ? " - my answer is the elusive " Meta - Ideology " or " Ideology of Ideologies."

The best kind of government is going to be founded upon the best decision making processes - and these should always be open to further evolution. In the Roman Republic those processes evolved over the centuries after the king was overthrown and originally ' republican ' politics were not theoretical but a response to Caesar seizing power and ruling in an arbitrary way : first of all people appealed for the restitution of the long established form of government, then they began to question not just the usurper but also the usurped and debate what had gone wrong and how it could be put right. When this Classical Republican literature was rediscovered it excited those reading it to theorize about it and they created Renaissance Republicanism which initially was very idealistic advice directed at rulers telling them how to be good Christian / Muslim rulers. Republicanism has since evolved through religious, philosophical and scientific manifestations and we should expect it to be transformed in the next fifty years or so again, but into what ?

The kinds of political system that we can anticipate, if " Meta-Ideology " is not just a passing fad, are those which can address and accommodate a wide variety ideologies and give them a due share of influence where appropriate but not to allow any arbitrary influence over the decision making processes. In terms of the present decision making processes in Wales, Assembly Members are not competent to exercise judgement in many of the decisions that they do make nor are they able to control the bureaucracy that is making most of the decisions. From a Republican point of view Democracy has failed in that the basis of decision making is popularity not propriety in Wales, the political decision making process is based upon voting not deliberation and the result is the worst kind of decision making process - imposed from Westminster and incapable of evolution.

The bad political system in the UK results in bad decisions being made and in any other country these mistakes might be redressed in the courts but the legal system is such that the laws are arbitrary and the judiciary can not strike out these bad laws once made, and so ordinary people can not challenge the injustices done even if they had the money. So really we need to consider the wholesale renovation of the Welsh state and its institutions, and we need a Meta-Ideology in order to do so - in other words we need that political discourse which has long been the focus of hostility in the UK because of the propaganda made against those who opposed the British Empire : we need a dose of Republicanism. I THINK THAT THE NEXT REPUBLICAN PROJECT IN WALES JUST HAS TO BE EMPOWERING THE JUDICIARY AND GETTING RID OF THE ENGLISH LEGAL SYSTEM.

Yours Sincerely,

David B. Lawrence
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

" Most users ever online was 102 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:10 am "

What **** were you all looking at ?

Helps if people leave their complaints as well as your greetings !!!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:33 pm    Post subject: ~ ? Reply with quote

~ ?

Liberty - Equality - Fraternity : Aux armes, Citoyens !

War is Politics by other Methods - General von Clausewitz
Politics is War by other Methods - Some guy on the Internet
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