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Properly Separating Religion & Politics - usefully !

 
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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2636

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:54 pm    Post subject: Properly Separating Religion & Politics - usefully ! Reply with quote

I WROTE THIS WHEN I STARTED TO LOOK FOR MANIFESTOS PUBLISHED FOR THE 2016 WELSH ASSEMBLY ELECTION AND CAME ACROSS " THE TEN COMMITMENTS " -

http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=3267#3267

- I AM ALWAYS INTERESTED IN ANY CONTRIBUTION TO WELSH POLITICAL SOCIETY - GOOD OR BAD - BUT I HAVE LONG ARGUED THAT THE PEOPLE IN WALES CONFUSE RELIGION WITH POLITICS AND VICE VERSA : I BELIEVE THAT THEY SHOULD BE CONDUCTED AS TWO DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT PUBLIC DEBATES - THE SEPARATION OF RELIGIOUS AND POLITICAL INSTITUTIONS AS ADVOCATED BY REPUBLICANS IS NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF EXCLUDING THE RELIGIOUS DEBATE FROM PUBLIC DISCOURSE BUT TO ENSURE THAT THOSE WHO OBTAIN CONTROL OF THE STATE CAN NOT USE IT TO EXCLUDE THOSE DISCOURSES WHICH CRITICISE THEM I.E. WHAT WE OBJECT TO AS REPUBLICANS IS THE CONSTRAINING OR SUPPRESSION OF THE PUBLIC DEBATE IN FAVOUR OF THE IMPOSITION OF ANY OFFICIAL IDEOLOGY BECAUSE INEVITABLY IT WILL TURN OUT THAT SUCH AN IDEOLOGY WILL BE THE CREATION OF A SECTARIAN COMMUNITY WHICH WILL SUBSTITUTE ITS OWN INTERESTS FOR " THE PUBLIC INTEREST " AND THEN PROGRESSIVELY OBSCURE AND THEN SUPPRESS ANY OTHER IDEOLOGY, DECLARING THEIR CRITICS OR THOSE WHO JUST DIFFER FROM THEM TO BE EITHER INSANE OR CRIMINAL OR BOTH.

[ P.S. AN EXPLANATORY NOTE - A Pure Hierocracy is a society which is governed solely upon the basis of manipulating consciousness through the use of ideological conformity - but in most societies their official religion is just the soft end of the state which may be controlled by others ... Think of it this way : if you successfully argue against the appearance of things as presented by The Hierocrats then you have to face the hostility of The People who will be emotionally manipulated by the The Democrats who had been paying The Hierocrats to persuade The People who agree with them ... and if you face down The Democrats - then their sponsors The Aristocracy will campaign for your economic exclusion ... The United Kingdom is basically an Aristocracy and therefore run as an economic concern, but that does not mean that there is no longer a Monocracy but that it is dependent upon The Aristocracy ( at the moment - but elements within it are looking for opportunities to overthrow The Aristocracy and seize control of their wealth by violence.) ... When the chips are down and The People converge onto the streets without a clue how to do politics - because they have been deliberately mis-educated and are not capable of comprehending and participating in politics - this is the nightmare scenario for Republicans of severe public disorder which will lead to The Hierocrats, Democrats and Aristocrats running to The Monocrats to " restore order " i.e. their control of society. The People will end up dead, injured and abused - and powerless, because serious repression will ensue : this is what happened in The French Revolution when a Monocracy emerged from The Jacobin Club which set out to use The Red Terror to silence those who opposed them ... out of this burst The Thermidorian Reaction which overthrew The Terrorists - and gave birth in turn to The White Terror as The Republicans then hunted down The Democrats ... sad to say, but in situations like this Le Drapeau Blanc has often been splattered with blood ... Finland is the best - or worst - example. ... Republicanism aims to prevent these bloody nightmares by deploying strategies appropriately tailored to defend The People against each form of illegitimately conducted politics - the various forms of coercion used by communities of interest against The Public Interest which are collectively labeled " Ultraism " - Hierocracy, Democracy, Aristocracy and Monocracy.]

A PURE HIEROCRACY IS A SOCIETY WHICH IS GOVERNED SOLELY ON THIS BASIS - IN OUR SOCIETY UNTIL RECENTLY THE TELEVISION HAS BEEN THE MODERN EQUIVALENT OF THE MEDIEVAL PULPIT AND FAR MORE POWERFUL : NO PARISH PRIEST COULD EVER PREACH FOR SEVERAL HOURS INTO THE HOMES OF HIS PARISHONERS F

REPUBLICANS IN THE 18C WERE DENOUNCED AS BOTH HERETICS AND TRAITORS IN EUROPE BECAUSE THEY OPPOSED POLITICAL SYSTEMS WHICH WHERE THOSE WHO CONTROLLED THE STATES - WHETHER THEY WERE MONOCRATIC ( = FRANCE ) ARISTOCRATIC ( = BRITAIN & IRELAND ) DEMOCRATIC ( = PARTS OF THE NETHERLANDS ) HIEROCRATIC ( = PARTS OF SWITZERLAND ) - HAD ALL INSTITUTED AN OFFICIAL IDEOLOGY - EITHER CATHOLIC OR PROTESTANT AND WERE THEREFORE NEARLY ALWAYS OPENLY OR COVERTLY HOSTILE TO JUDAISM AND ISLAM ... THE REASON WHY THESE REGIMES FOUND REPUBLICANS TO BE SO THREATENING WAS BECAUSE OF OUR ADVOCACY FOR A PUBLIC DISCOURSE UPON ALL MATTERS AND THAT ALL PUBLIC DECISIONS THAT WERE TO BE ENFORCED BY LAWS MUST BE DECIDED BY DEMONSTRATING THE FACTS AND TESTING THE ARGUMENTS OVER THEM I.E. FOR THE GRADUAL REPLACEMENT OF THE UNJUST LAWS WHICH OPPRESSED PEOPLE BY SOMETHING BETTER - " THE NATURAL LAWS " WHICH WOULD BE RE-DISCOVERED THROUGH THE PROGRESS OF RATIONALITY AND REASON.

WHAT SENT THE CLERICS INTO HYSTERICS WAS THE REPUBLICANS CHALLENGING THEIR CLAIMS TO MAKE LAWS AND EXERCISE POLITICAL AUTHORITY ON THE BASIS OF THEIR ONE GOD DISPENSING HIS SOVEREIGNTY TO THEM ALONE WHEN THEY WERE EACH DENOUNCING THE OTHER AS HERETICS. TO EMPHASISE THE ARBITRARINESS OF SUCH CLAIMS TO POLITICAL AUTHORITY BY CHRISTIANS WHO COULD NOT AGREE REPUBLICANS CITED JUDAIC AND ISLAMIC LAWS TO DEMONSTRATE THEM TO BE EQUALLY ARBITRARY AND THEREFORE ARGUED THAT JEWS AND MUSLIMS WERE WRONGLY DISCRIMINATED AGAINST - THAT RELIGION SHOULD BE CONDUCTED UPON THE BASIS OF MUTUAL CONSENT AND COOPERATION BETWEEN THOSE WHO SHARE IN A BELIEF SYSTEM. THE ROLE OF THE STATE IN REPUBLICANISM IS TO MAKE LAWS TO PROTECT AND UPHOLD CONSENTING RELATIONSHIPS AND THEREFORE TO PROMOTE AND SUPPORT RELIGION WHEN IT IS NOT HIEROCRATIC I.E. TO PREVENT RELIGIOUS GROUPS MAKING ANY ATTEMPTS TO OBTAIN CONTROL OF THE STATE IN ORDER TO IMPOSE THEIR OWN IDEOLOGY AND THEN CORRUPTING THE RULE OF LAW TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST THOSE WHO BELIEVED DIFFERENTLY : THIS IS THE RUB FOR RELIGIOUS PEOPLE WHO ENJOY THE FREEDOMS THAT REPUBLICANISM OFFERS THEM YET PROMPTLY USE THEM TO START REASONING THAT " THE PUBLIC INTEREST " CAN ONLY BE CORRECTLY DEFINED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR GOD'S WILL ... GODS WHICH MYSTERIOUSLY HAPPEN TO ENDORSE THE OPINIONS OF THOSE WHO ASSERT THAT THESE GODS HAVE GIVEN THEM AUTHORITY TO ANNOUNCE UPON THE OPINIONS OF THEIR GODS ...

... AND THOSE WHO DO NOT AGREE WITH THEIR DEFINITION OF THEIR GOD'S WILL ARE THE ENEMIES NOT ONLY OF THEIR GOD'S KINGDOM IN HEAVEN BUT ALSO THEIR GOD'S KINGDOMS ON EARTH ... SO BE WARY OF THE WORD " REPUBLIC " BEING ABUSED : IN REPUBLICANISM THERE CAN BE NO SUCH THING AS " AN ISLAMIC REPUBLIC " OR " A CHRISTIAN KINGDOM " OR " A JEWISH STATE " OR " A COMMUNIST EMPIRE " BECAUSE ALL OF THESE ARE HIEROCRATIC AND THEREFORE CONDUCTED ON THE BASIS OF THAT FIRST STAGE OF ULTRAISM : WHERE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ISLAMIC / CHRISTIAN / JEWISH / COMMUNIST ETC AGREE TO A SORT OF SHIBBOLETH IN WHICH A PERSON WHO WILL NOT REPEAT A CERTAIN FORM OF WORDS OR NOT WEAR A CERTAIN PIECE OF CLOTHING OR NOT EAT CERTAIN KIND OF MEAT OR NOT ACCEPT A CERTAIN ECONOMIC SYSTEM WILL FIND THEMSELVES PROGRESSIVELY DISCRIMINATED AGAINST ... IN REPUBLICANISM HIEROCRACY IS CONTEMPTED AS NOT BEING RELIGIOUS AT ALL BECAUSE THE MEANING OF THE WORD " RE-LIGION " IS TO " RE-TIE " OR " RE-SECURE " I.E. TO WORK TOWARDS UNITY : 18C REPUBLICANS RAGED AGAINST HIEROCRATS AND IN VARIOUS REVOLUTIONARY UPHEAVALS IN THE 19C THESE WERE OFTEN CITED AS AN EXCUSE TO PLUNDER RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS ... BY THE POOR ? ... NO - BY THE ARISTOCRACY IN MANY PLACES - E.G. ITALY WHERE THEY " PRIVATISED " THE STATE CHURCH'S PROPERTY ( I.E. " THATCHERISED " IT ) AND EXPORTED THE GRAIN AND RICE TO THE INDUSTRIAL EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ( LIKE WALES - HENCE RICE PUDDINGS AND BRACCHI ) AND USED STARVATION TO DRIVE THE PEASANTS OFF THE LAND INTO FACTORIES WHICH THE ARISTOCRACY FINANCED BY BRIBING THE ELECTORATE TO VOTE FOR THEIR SELECTION FROM THE DEMOCRATS WHO WERE BRIBED TO VOTE TO PAY THE MONOCRATS TO SEIZE THE PROPERTY OF THE HIEROCRATS WHO PROMPTLY CHANGED THEIR GODS IN ORDER PRONOUNCE THAT THEY NEEDED A BIGGER STRONGER MORE MODERN MESSIAH ... AND SO IN DUE COURSE THEY DISCOVERED A SUITABLE MONOCRAT ... BENITO MUSSOLINI ...

... WHEN THE ITALIAN PEASANTS WERE DRIVEN INTO CITIES LIKE MILAN THEY WERE CUT FREE OF THEIR DEPENDENCY UPON MAKING A LIVING FROM LAND OWNED BY ARISTOCRATS AND HIEROCRATS - ( to get an idea of that kind of society try watching a film which features both an Aristocrat and an Hierocrat - " CHOCOLAT " - trailer- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32x33l2sLe8 - film - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqcLloRKpBw&ebc=ANyPxKr8UWw-70tnuKwdL_l_Q0HWHlz1Wn4qUpOOuxUw37gV0uRIWA0h8sJCeMHWQ8A0AE_a31ps7g-1uDhkBxGd9zXlFSST0w ) - AND FINDING THEMSELVES OPPRESSED BY A NEW INDUSTRIAL ARISTOCRACY BUT CUT FREE FROM THE OLD HIEROCRACY THEY RECAST THEIR OLD VALUES BY THEIR UNDERSTANDING THEIR NEW CIRCUMSTANCES IN TERMS OF A NEW IDEOLOGY - COMMUNISM ... ALMOST IMMEDIATELY RECOGNISED BY THE REPUBLICANS IN 19C ITALY TO BE A SECULAR RELIGION ... THE ARISTOCRATS IN RUSSIA WERE DOING THE SAME BUT THE RESULT WAS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT BECAUSE TWO DIFFERENT RELIGIOUS COMMUNITIES WERE INVOLVED AND TWO DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF COMMUNISM RESULTED : THE ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS OPTED FOR WHAT BECAME BOLSHEVISM - THE UNORTHODOX JEWS CREATED BUNDISM ... MANY ARGUE THAT WALES WAS THE FIRST COUNTRY IN WHICH THIS HAPPENED AND OUR COMMUNISTS TEND TO BE METHODISTS ... IF THEIR COMMUNIST DEVOLUTION HAD SUCCEEDED WE WOULD HAVE ENDED UP IN A " UNITED SOVIET UNION OF WALES " DEVOID OF POETRY, ALCOHOL AND RUGBY FOOTBALL ... THUS THREE VERY STRONG OBJECTIONS TO PUT FORWARD AGAINST A COMMUNIST HIEROCRACY IN WALES ...

... BUT THE MAJOR OBJECTION OF REPUBLICANISM IS TO ANY IDEOLOGY WHICH CLAIMS TO BE OTHER THAN A BELIEF SYSTEM : THERE HAVE BEEN VARIOUS FORMS OF THIS ARGUMENT BUT THE MOST POPULAR AT THE MOMENT IS KARL POPPER'S " FALSIFICATION " TEST - IN OTHER WORDS, CAN AN IDEOLOGY BE TESTED AND THE TRUTH OF ITS CLAIMS BE DECIDED - OR IS IT CONSTRUCTED IN SUCH A WAY AS TO CONSTANTLY EXPLAIN AWAY ITS FAILURE TO CORRECTLY PREDICT THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE POLICIES WHICH IT ADVOCATES ? E.G. MARXIST-LENINIST-STALINIST COMMUNISTS IN RUSSIA KEPT FAILING TO DELIVER UPON THEIR CLAIMS AND SUPPRESSED ANY CRITICISM BY ESTABLISHING A COMPLETE ULTRAISM IN WHICH THE POLITICAL COMMISSARS WERE THE HIEROCRACY WHOSE ROLE WAS TO EXPLAIN AND JUSTIFY WHY IN A STATE WHICH PROCLAIMED LIBERTY, EQUALITY AND FRATERNITY A TENTH OF THE POPULATION WERE IMPRISONED AS SLAVES, MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY WERE PRIVILEGED IN MULTIPLE WAYS AND THOSE WHO WERE NOT RUSSIAN WERE TREATED WITH PREJUDICE ... THE IDEA THAT THE SOVIET UNION WAS ATHEISTIC IS CORRECT - BUT THE IDEA THAT THIS MEANT THAT IT WAS NOT RELIGIOUS IS INCORRECT : IT WAS PREDICATED UPON THE USE OF AN IDEOLOGY WHICH COULD NOT BE QUESTIONED - WHOSE LIES COULD NOT BE CHALLENGED LEST THOSE WHO BENEFITED FROM THEM LOSE THEIR ILLEGITIMATELY BASED CLAIM TO POLITICAL AUTHORITY ...

... IN OTHER WORDS RELIGION IS SIMPLY AN INESCAPABLE ASPECT OF HUMAN SOCIETY, OUR SHARING AND AGREEING OUR UNDERSTANDINGS OF THINGS AND THEN COHERENTLY FORMULATING THESE WITH AN IDEOLOGY AND USING IT FOR TRANSMITTING THEM THROUGH VARIOUS SOCIAL ACTIVITIES ... AS SUCH REPUBLICANS ARE HAPPY TO ENCOURAGE RELIGION AS BEING OF POSITIVE BENEFIT TO SOCIETY UNTIL THIS HAPPENS ... SOMEBODY IN A RELIGIOUS GROUP TURNS THEIR POSITION IN IT TO THEIR OWN ADVANTAGE AND STARTS TO COERCE OTHERS WITHIN IT TO MAINTAIN THAT ADVANTAGE, TO REFUSE CRITICISM AND PUNISH THOSE WHO CHALLENGE THEIR CLAIM TO A PERSONAL AUTHORITY WHICH OVER-RULES ANY FACTS AND ARGUMENTS : HIEROCRACY IS A BID FOR POLITICAL AUTHORITY BASED UPON LIES ... BUT IN CONTRAST RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGIES NEED NOT BE DEEMED TO BE LIES AS SUCH WHEN NOT USED FOR THIS PURPOSE - " GOD " IS OBSERVED BY MANY REPUBLICANS TO BE " AN IDEA WHICH IS USED TO REGULATE THE STRUCTURE OF MANY - BUT NOT ALL - RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGIES WHICH ARE MOSTLY - BUT NOT ALL - TO BE CLASSED AS THEO-LOGIES " ... REPUBLICANISM HAS ALWAYS CHALLENGED MONO-THEISM BY DEMONSTRATING THAT THOSE ARGUING FOR IT WHO SUPPOSEDLY AGREE THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD CAN NOT AGREE BETWEEN THEMSELVES A DEFINITION OF " GOD " - JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM CAN ALL BE DEMONSTRATED TO BE EFFECTIVELY POLY-THEISTIC ... A SIMILAR ARGUMENT DEMONSTRATES THE INCOHERENCE OF ATHEISM - SO ENJOY YOUR OWN RELIGION AND BE EAGER TO ENJOY OTHER PEOPLE'S RELIGIONS.

Welllllllll ... you get the gist of it perhaps ... and now I will transfer over that bit of misfit writing out of this thread - Wales' National Assembly & Other Elections 5th May 2016


Last edited by dai on Thu May 12, 2016 1:31 pm; edited 22 times in total
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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2636

PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Transferred from - http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=3267#3267

I have decided to transfer this piece of writing over into a new thread with a preceding piece of explanation of the point of view that it is written from -

Properly Separating Religion & Politics - usefully ! - http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=3269#3269

- I had started to look around for election manifestos to analise when I found this ... I had great fun with it - but not with any useful relevance to the subject in hand - because of that recent news item ...

https://www.bod.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Welsh-Manifesto-English-Final.pdf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35987239

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http://www.falafel-wales.co.uk/

I hope that my friends are going to excuse me this one - I am not exactly " LOL " let alone " FALAFEL " about this but then again full marks to the Board of Deputies of British Jews for their manifesto for it certainly sparks - they have entitled it " The Ten Commitments " and it is written in an exemplary clear and concise way ... and no - this is not me pitching cynical ... the only problem here in Wales is not raising the money necessary to win an election but that of finding enough people willing to sign the application to register a single candidate ... and that is not said in the spirit of cynicism either but as a gentle chiding to reconsider the role of the Board of Deputies of British Jews which is fundamentally located elsewhere ... and is beginning to sound more than a little crazy in its public pronouncements ... in fact the very reason that I have just visited their website is try to decide exactly what the allegations are which their president Jonathan Arkush has been making about Jeremy Corbyn today - I caught some of this news item and ... oh - I despair of them both : its ... its ... its ... ridiculous middle class hair-splitting over the casual use of words and phrases which belongs to their world not mine ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35987239 - Board of Deputies criticises Corbyn's response to anti-Semitism claims

... Not being secluded in some middle class ghetto, in the streets where I used to live it was easy to recognise racists when I was a kid - they were the ones with the knives, chains and baseball bats ... and they were opportunists who were looking to those placed in authority over them by The Daily Mail e.g. Enoch Powell to say something - anything - which they could cite as a permission to pick on as someone now placed out of the bounds of society : by race, religion, sexuality, politics, disability, poverty or choice of team to support ... Hence it is not unreasonable for me to level the allegation " racist " at Jonathan Arkush because - hopefully thoughtlessly - in his pursuit of the paring down his own sense of self in the pursuit of the perfection of his own ideals he is intolerant of the messy business of being human, of making some bad mistakes and many worse poems ... and of course when fools like this find that somebody has murdered a person which they have denounced as an " anti-semite " they promptly deny any responsibility for the actions of those who have supposedly " misinterpreted " their loud condemnation of those they disapprove of ... and I could be accused of risking the same on occasions - but here is the difference : I am not only angry with others but also with myself about failings which we all share and thus to damn others is to damn myself which is why it is wiser to try to persuade others with a joke instead of with a punch in the face : our sins when not acknowledged lead to some evil tragedies whereas our sins when acknowledged lead to some good comedies ... I would find the remarks of Jonathan Arkush risible were it not for their shrill humourless assertions which may be treated as their licence to thrill by the even less thoughtful.

HONESTLY - THIS IS WORTH A READ ( IF YOU SKIP PAGE 10 ) - https://www.bod.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Welsh-Manifesto-English-Final.pdf

I would like to add a further comment after that example of a very small community putting in their contribution to the public discourse of Welsh Political Society ( WPS ! ) - a chronic gripe of mine is about those parasitic politicos which arrive after the controversy has been settled and do their best to keep it going by applying for grants from government to lecture The People in Wales about Racism, Misogyny, Disability Rights etc - I am not saying that these issues should not be discussed or that they have ceased to exist but I am protesting about the cottage industries which have grown up around such things as LGBT which provide middle class people with all sorts of well salaried jobs and has resulted in them campaigning to insist upon the importance of what they do i.e. they now campaign primarily to maintain their own standards of living and in order to do that they will not let these issues die what otherwise might be their natural death much sooner. This in turn results in the sort of behaviour exemplified by Jonathan Arkush where such people licence the very sort of thugs which previously beat up Jews to now beat up those who find themselves alleged to be anti-semitic ...

... I witnessed the thuggery of the 1970s and by chance I was in Liverpool shortly after the riots of 1981 and the following year by chance I was visiting a friend whose flat was over a shop on Electric Avenue when there was the stir of violence briefly in the air a second time. ... The Democrats in Wales and Westminster like to pretend that their stuffing leaflets into letter boxes brought about the beginning of the end of that high tide of racism - no : The People in Wales and The World have an inherent desire to be at peace with those around them and this is bound up with a desire for the welfare of others i.e. for the normally adjusted and therefore unelectable. Once The People in Wales became aware of the way in which their otherwise harmless opinions once expressed gave licence to those who wanted to claim legitimacy for their violence against an " other " then being offended by that violence they re-examined their opinions ... The Democrats in Wales and The World claimed the credit for this afterwards but they were not involved - The People in Wales and The World are " governed by god " - The Natural Law : Republicanism.

Perhaps" peace " does not mean that we choose to do good - but that we choose not to do evil.

" FALAFEL " ... er ... well I just improvised that thinking that I might be able to work some sort of a gag in somehow ... " Falling About Laughing At F ... um ... Electoral ... er ... Lunacy "- ?

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You can guess how Jeremy Corbyn is going to respond to this lobbying by the Board of Deputies of British Jews in the forthcoming years can you not ? First of all The Labour and Cooperative Party will assert the right for men to be circumcised - then they will have to agree that women also have the right to be circumcised - and then by the time of the 2020 General Selection of The Dis-United Kingdom their manifesto promise to the electorate will be to introduce urgent legislation to make circumcision compulsory for everyone - including free circumcision for the immigrants in Calais before they are even allowed to stow away in those lorries - in order to ensure that we live in a more egalitarian and tolerant society ...

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I want to further add that whilst Jonathan Arkush's hair splitting annoyed me yesterday, and whilst in general I think that religious groups should be challenging the immorality of The Democrats, I have a set of general criticisms which I level at those religious people who seize the opportunities around elections to make statements which are not political. From my point of view there is a widespread muddle-headedness in Wales which is the result of the supporters of The United Kingdom perpetrating one of the myths which it is founded upon and which is one of the very good reasons to be finally rid of its nonsense.

In the 16c Henry VIII split with The Papacy but England did not become as Protestant as Scotland : rather what the Tudor dynasty practised as religion was a self-worship in which The Church of England was seized not merely to ransack its property but to use it as part of the state apparatus. This is one of the reasons that Wales was forced into a sort of union with England : Henry VIII already ruled Wales as a separate realm but the Welsh refused to accept him as head of ( what later became ) The Church in Wales and wanted to remain Catholics - but Henry VIII would not tolerate their loyalties being split, especially since Wales had been the point of call when his own father Henry Tudor had landed his army to attack England. For centuriesThe Church of England was used as art of the means to exercise state control and this is what has caused the confusion between religion and politics in Wales - so let me un-confuse it for you. The idea that religion is a private matter arose from the policy of killing those who publicly disagreed with the king who as self-appointed head of the church declared his political opponents to be heretics and his religious opponents to be traitors - but provided that they said nothing publicly they were publicly ignored ... but spied upon ... and had money extorted from them ... those the king owed money to were wise to forget what he owed them because his creditors were denounced as either heretics or traitors or both and their estates were forfeited to him as soon as he had had them executed.

Both the secretive paranoid politics of The United Kingdom and its tradition of eccentric liberal thinkers have their origins in this situation. Religion collapsed and became a sham because its central practice of a public discourse on morality became impossible : all that was necessary to avoid fines, imprisonments and death was to visit the church and repeat some stock phrases without making any sarcastic comments ... the practice of singing hymns might be a consequence of this, to replace the discourse with something safe to do ... Religious opinion became a private matter and discussion of religious ideas became a social faux pas because it put everyone nearby at risk ... now because religion focusses upon morality it is the precursor activity to politics which is a discourse about ethics ; religion poses the question " Why ? " and politics poses the question " How ? " As private thoughts were now not held to be accountable to critical discourse, the substitutes for religious thinking became much more diverse and irrational and creative and new substitutes for political action arose out of this - and modern politics was born i.e. equally unaccountable to critical discourse and so indifferent to protests about what was being done to the victims of The Industrial Revolution.

Republican Democracy was the mid 18c remedy for this state of affairs and it consisted of two halves - ( a ) Republican : a civic religion to restore the public discourse about morality - ( b ) a means to restore the public discourse about ethics which early 18c Pure Republicans utterly distrusted as a political system known to be not only corrupt but corrupting : Democracy. The advocates of Republican Democracy asserted that a strong framework of powerful laws would prevent or at least control The Democrats in France ... it did not ... The advocates of Democratic Republicanism made the civic religion of Republicanism subservient to The Democrats in America who thought that the multiple private religions would be a substitute for it ... they were not ... What happens when religious groups draw up what they think are political manifestos is that their pronouncements do not address the public ethical debate because there no longer is one : their proposals for politics are made without ever encountering other religious groups so they can not establish any agreement about morality so they can not fashion any political proposals. On the other side of the coin - and it is a coin because politics is not about building imaginary worlds - political groups often draw up what they do not like to think of as religious memoranda but to those of us who practice religion are blatently ideological daydreams naively presented as if they were uncontroversial : basically they are constructed to reason out a morality to justify their ethics and this usually involves such things as dodgy dossiers and protests about how everybody else tortures people. The Democrats have no experience of any public moral debate and they do not want to have one either - and that is why they equate religion with holding private belief systems : they do not want to disclose why they are doing things but only want to argue that these must be done ...

... Now my advice is that the business of religious leaders is to confine themselves to a vigorous public debate about the question " Why ? " and that requires them to do what many refuse to do and justify themselves by arguing that religion is a matter of private contemplation either alone or in small discrete groups which do not talk to each other lest they upset each other ... Another version of this is the now common refrain " I don't care for religion but I am a spiritual person " ... Spirituality is a private experience but as the necessary precursor of religion which is the precursor of politics which is the precursor of economics which is the precursor of spirituality ... your spirituality is stagnant and is what Marx was describing as religion : but he was wrong - it was the19c religious groups which asserted that what was happening was harming society and then they went about imagining how to heal it and put it back into good health instead of mourning it before it was dead. As to the business of political leaders they should confine themselves to a vigorous public ethical debate about the question " How ? " and neither confuse religion with politics nor themselves with either their gods or their profits ... The Democrats in Wales' contempt for religious groups seems to me to parallel their relationships with so many other groups which do a lot of listening to the distress of individuals and then perform the religious act of interpreting these broken lives and the shattered spiritualities through which express them into something intelligible which defines the remedy - which in my experience The Democrats and The World - not to mention Westminster - so often mock and sneer at and disregard : morality.

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Gosh ... I wish that I had gone to bed instead ... but I can see the light and I am getting there ... but as to that piece of writing ... perhaps that was both sides of the mobius ?

[ I came back to this in the middle of the night was because I could not sleep and so first I got up to amuse myself with - http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=3268#3268 ]

And an hour or so later I have decided to study that " manifesto " a little more closely to see if I could find any serious faults in it apart from the horrible phrase " POLICY ASK " ...it is more or less otherwise what might be expected of a minority group excepting that I do not agree with the first " POLICY ASK " on page 10 because it proscribes the right of protest for others - but then on the other hand I myself strongly objected to the policy agreed by The Religious Society of Friends which advised Quakers to boycott goods from the illegal Israeli settlements and for this better reason : it was explicitly targeted at and named but one community of people whose goods are the fruit of criminal activities and therefore as such RSoF had trespassed across the boundary between religion and politics i.e. a religious organisation can not pronounce that the moral principle that they advocate is to be applied when dealing with one community which offends it but not to any others which offends it or only optionally to those others if you feel like it - that is not the universalising of good religious practice but the particularising of the bad political practice banned in Republicanism which is generally known as " The Bill of Attainder." This is the true species of the argument which Johnathan Arkush has been citing to use against Jeremy Corbyn but in trying to use it to smear fairly innocent if irritatingly trivial behaviour as " anti-semitic " he discredits the very necessary stance of The Board of Deputies of British Jews against the organised and purposeful anti-semitic organisations which not only spout some really vicious nonsense but incite others to criminal acts. In other words Johnathan Arkush is recklessly crying " WOLF ! " because he will probably be losing a round or two of golf to his bodyguards whilst the people whom he claims to be protecting with these public displays of shadow boxing are being beaten - even eaten.

If you glggl something like " TOP TEN ANTI-SMITE WEBSITES " you will see what I mean - but if I post those addresses then many of the UK's ISPs will censor this general election thread.

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[ TEN MINUTES LATER ? ] ... To compensate for the above dilemma ... I feel that this is now going drastically off-message and is bordering upon the idiocy which I just criticised ... However this is also about what qualifies a political theory to be denoted " Republican " which is that it must offer not only an explanation of its own ideology but also of those other ideologies which it is criticising i.e. it must qualify as a " meta-ideology " and not merely dismiss other ideologies with prejudiced arguments but be able to enter into them, explain why and how they work - and treat their adherents with sympathy if not respect. A political theory does not qualify as " Republican " unless it can be " operationalised " i.e. unless it can quantify what it is describing and define discrete " operations " which can be observed if not isolated and in a measurable way so that when the conditions are changed - either by investigative design or just by the course of events - the differences can be demonstrated in terms of numbers not words ... In other words Republicans are not like Democrats ( and this is not an American politico talking here but a Welsh one : I am referring to those who reject the non-political system called The United Kingdom and are selflessly working to change it in various ways citing The Public Interest -

- and those who continue to prop up The Dis-United Kingdom because they believe in Democracy in much the same way that others believe that some day their own ballot paper will win The National Lottery - so why bother to work ? ) ... Alternatively - and more commonly - the word " Republicanism " refers to the single largest and longest political discourse in history beginning with PLATO in the late Bronze Age and not even ending with NATO in the early post-modern stoned age c1980 when Margaret Thatcher had been on her throne less than a year when she had the pleasure of witnessing the closure of The East Moors Steel Works plunging thousands into the spiral of The Left Hand Path upon which they encountered unemployment, poverty, social isolation, drug addiction and a standing wave of crime which spread out through the derelicting streets of Butetown, Adamsdown, Tremorfa and Splott and then even further. Hundreds of houses were abandoned and then boarded up if not demolished due to the thefts, vandalism and arson - and The Labour and Cooperative Party City Councillors stood like Nelson on the burning deck of what was not a Victory and by calmly applying their binoculars to all three of their blind eyes they constantly pronounced ... well, they said many things but never much about what was going on politically which was the arrival of Neo-Nazi activists.

I presume that they were sociable and sympathetic to those they found themselves amongst, offering unemployed youths respect and an ideology which explained why they were trapped in this way and who to blame ... perhaps they gave out sweets, beer and cigarettes to younger children ... they gave them stencils and spray cans to decorate the boarded up houses with ... I know that much because I confronted two boys doing this and challenged their perception of things ... I too was about to begin my own slide down into unemployment, poverty, social isolation and ill health - but at this point I was still smartly dressed ( OK - on occasions I was still presentable, and this was one of them ) ... As I approached the street where the synagogue is I witnessed small boys crouching behind a wall with a lookout signaling the arrival of passing cars to stone ...

... Of course, being a committed Republican it was my duty to go behind the wall and confront them and to present the facts of their behaviour and invite them to be reasonable ... having performed my duty to The Republic in Wales I calmly returned to the pavement under a shower of stones ... About fifty yards later some older youths jumped off the wall at the corner of the road right in front of me and their leader broke my nose with a classy upper-cut which took me momentarily by surprise but I fended off the next blow ... and it stopped there because they were satisfied with the gushing of blood over my shirt ... I walked away without knowing how bad the injury was : it required a general anaesthetic ... When nothing is said then you can never be sure : in 1989 my dark beard and curly hair drew comment as to whether I was Jewish and this was fifty yards from the door of the synagogue ... and that is the point of such harassment by those who feel powerless : crying " WOLF ! " advertises an opportunity to those desperate to be powerful.

Alleging anti-semitism in order to direct attention away from Israel is plainly treacherous.

I really need to end this with something more upbeat.

I wandered over Adam's town
And by a door, dressed in a gown,
She addressed me thus " Shema ? "
And I responded with " Shw'ma ? "
At which she smiled whilst I did clown ...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might just add something which I suspect but can not evidence from that " Ten Commitments "manifesto - I love the title - which is that although I think that it contains a series of legitimate concerns and reasonable requests - and it is very well written - the over all slant of it is I suspect to seek the endorsement of the state ... perhaps even to aim at or towards hierocracy in some future piece of legislation ( hence my joke about its request for the right of circumcision in which - in order to ingratiate themselves and indesperately avoiding the allegation of anti-semitism - the Labour & Cooperative Party go the extra league and make it compulsory for everybody ) ... I feel that behind that is a Zionist ... no, in a sense that is not fair ... an Ersatz Israel government foreign policy objective which is to identify Judaism with Israel and thus if a government can be drawn into endorsing Judaism then by tenuously extended implication this can be claimed to be an endorsement of Ersatz Israel ... Why " Ersatz " Israel ? ... Because people hear about " Eretz Yisrael " which means " The Land of Israel " and tend to think that the meaning of this is like " The Israelis come from The Land of Israel " which in one sense is tru-ish because people born their do qualify in that sense ...

... But in another and in my opinion the proper sense " Yisrael " is not a geographic term in the way that " Israel " is used but denotes the whole of world Jewry of which less than half live in " Eretz Yisrael " ... so in my reasoning if the government of that place want to use any versions of that name then they should be obedient to those they claim to serve - but actually they are trying to make their vice versa and are increasingly trying to make the real " Yisrael " subservient to this " Israel " which has appropriated so much from Judaism excepting its morality and whose behaviour is driven by an ethic which contradicts Judaism ... which I used to just shrug my shoulders about and ignore until the proprietors of that commercial operation " Ersatz Israel " began to flood the non-political system called by its supporters The United Kingdom with astounding amounts of money - in which case I decided that they can no longer plead that we ought not to comment on their political system when they are actively interfering in and subverting ours. Not that I have the money to compete with the arms salesmen corrupting The Democrats in Israel - but talk is cheap ... and so I deemed that since they will not listen to Common Sense I would aim at their Achilles Speel and subsume a Jewish point of view because without legitimacy in the eyes of Jews they have none at all ... which is why the Zionists are panicky : the whole of world Jewry is now disaffected ...

... and in being as innocent as a dove in deciding to practice the cunning of a serpent in order to borrow Moses' staff to punish those using his legacy to justify their crimes ...

... well I did not anticipate it twisting into life in my hand leaving me bitten with jealousy for Judaism ... honestly - I simply did not know that I cared this much about its fate before ...

>sigh< ... so instead of just running into them* occasionally and having rows about Israel ... well in a traditional shtetl like Cardiff you have to make yourself accountable in some way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBVEoYBTI98

* Post Script - Wales has a " them and us " situation - there is probably around 30,000 people who could claim an Israeli passport on the basis of their ancestry but officially only about 2,000 are recognised as Jews - but who would want one : its menorah is extinguished ?



However this " Israel " is not a Hierocratic state : it is a commercial enterprise and therefore it should be classified as an Aristocratic state - even if on paper it has a substantially Democratic constitution.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And for those who have forgotten that an unfortunate twit is not racist : I have knocked up this - http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=3276#3276
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started this thread because I wrote far too much about this subject in what was supposed to be about " Wales' National Assembly & Other Elections 5th May 2016 " ... but not only were there arguments about anti-semitism in that round of elections but there was also a row over anti-Islamic allegations in the election for The Mayor of London : it was a pretty classic example of The Democrats trying to use the methods of The Hierocrats - and failing ... so after the dust began to settle in Wales I wrote this piece which includes comparisons to football hooliganism - and a rhyme about Johnathan Arkush ... which I think puts the point succinctly but might be misunderstood.

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FROM - http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=3407#3407


Down Tottenham High Road ran Jonathan Arkush_And this was the reason he was in a rush :_" Are you a Yud ? # " had asked a supporter of Spurs_And he replied that such words were all racial slurs -_And said " NO ! " - and then there was a hush ...


# Yud - use the Welsh " u " and you get the original " ii " sound, which is not the clipped " i " sound of the racial slur - and " Yud " may get past the censors' sensors which do not know the difference ... and probably neither does Johnathan Arkush who is the guy who was making shrill accusations of anti-semitism about trivial thoughtless remarks - which is like claiming that a frustrated parent snapping and shouting at a badly behaved child is " child abuse." Anti-semitism is a serious problem and it irresponsible for any persons of prominence to trivialise it in this casual way - and especially not The President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews ... leave it to scurrilously satirical scribblers like me !

Down Tottenham High Road ran Jonathan Arkush_
And this is was the reason he was all in a rush :_
" Are you a Yud ? " had asked a supporter of Spurs_
And he replied that such words were are all racial slurs -_
And said " NO ! " - and then ... there was a hush ...

dai repwblic - Dai Saw - David B Lawrence - the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !


[ WHAT FOLLOWS THAT IS A BRIEF LOOK AT THE CONTROVERSY OVER SPURS FANS USE OF A CERTAIN WORD : IS IT LEGITIMATE OR NOT ? ]

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The point to me is that Johnathan Arkush is thinking and arguing in a way - to wax technical about for a moment by invoking the terminology used in " The Model " - which can be classified as " super-version " i.e. he is not considering the consequences of his allegations about anti-semitism, because for himself and those like him living privileged lives there will be none ... except in this imagined incident which illustrates the point : Spurs fans do not use that word in the same context - they have appropriated it into another context, and in fact in their context it is entirely legitimate and a positive part of their identity ... Their use of it as part of their identity is for them to do with refuting anti-semitism and they do not accept that they are racists because ... well, we have to accept their assertion that they are not - but that does not mean that a proportion amongst them are not looking for a fight, and to tell them that their very identity is a racial slur is - in football hooligan rationality and reasoning - a challenge to a fight. In The Model "super-version is " when religion goes wrong " and the full path of consciousness is cut short to exclude the political i.e. " extro-version." In trying to invoke anti-Islamic ideas against his opponent in London, Zac Goldsmith was doing the same : his consciousness was defective because he did not have sufficient personal experience of The People in London - and they were not deceived but offended because he violated their shared identity, their shared consciousness, or in other words he offended their Common Sense and therefore The General Will was to refuse to vote for him. The term " super-version " in The Ideo-Rational Analysis is closely related to Karl Popper's " Falsification Theory."

[ CARTOON ] Karl Popper's Falsification - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf-sGqBsWv4

[ LECTURE ] Sir Karl Popper's "Science as Falsification" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztmvtKLuR7I

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability#Use_in_courts_of_law

Use in courts of law

Judge William Overton used falsifiability in the McLean v. Arkansas ruling in 1982 as one of the criteria to determine that "creation science" was not scientific and should not be taught in Arkansas public schools as such (it can be taught as religion). The argument was presented by philosopher, Michael Ruse, who defined the characteristics which constitute science as explanatory, testable, and tentative; the latter of the three being another term for falsifiability.In his conclusion related to this criterion Judge Overton stated that "While anybody is free to approach a scientific inquiry in any fashion they choose, they cannot properly describe the methodology as scientific, if they start with the conclusion and refuse to change it regardless of the evidence developed during the course of the investigation."


And that of course is the kind of delusion that we are dealing with in the case of The Reality V Johnathan Arkush - perhaps we ought to let him enter a plea insanity ? ... That being said, I have had several conversations about this and I know that I am out of step with the general sentiment, which is that words, symbols and images have resonance and that even if the kinds of remarks alleged to be racist ( or anti-semitic, or mysogynist, or old-age-pensionist etc ) are arguably not because they are not uttered with prejudice, nevertheless they may licence that prejudice in others and provide excuses for their malice ... Perhaps you can think of this in terms of watching the endless war films broadcast by the BBC and other Hierocracies : The People of Wales dismiss these as merely being entertainment yet the way that the human mind works is by mimicry, it is going on all of the time in the backs of our heads - there is no need for any subliminal hidden messages in advertising because provided that we are sufficiently exposed to the advertisements we will come to believe that " It's The Real Thing " ... whatever that means : in not being founded upon reality an idea such as that can be " super-verted " and its meaning can be steadily revised in the interests of the community which propagandised it ... unless of course some aspect of " The Real Thing " is founded upon reality - as Coca-Cola found out when they thought that The People Who Drink Coke were merely loyal to the label and tried to change the flavour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola#New_Coke
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will add this to this thread : I have actually got out of bed to write this - I am appalled ... Jackie Walker poses good questions !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37513813

Calls for Momentum vice-chair to quit in anti-Semitism row

" The vice-chair of pro-Corbyn group Momentum is under pressure to quit over allegations of anti-Semitism. ... Jackie Walker has faced criticism over comments made on social media and at an anti-Semitism training event. ... The TSSA union says it will "seriously reconsider" its support for Momentum if Ms Walker remains in place and the group says its steering committee will meet on Monday to seek her removal. ... She told Channel 4: "I certainly wouldn't call myself an anti-Semite." ..."I'm Jewish and my partner is Jewish." ... "

I mean ... if Jewish people - the most qualified to hold an opinion on this ? - can not express opinions about anti-semitism ... who the hell can ? ... Apparently only those who are painfully - anally - and incredibly self-consciously politically correct : I mean ... #### !!! ... this is a horrible game ... and as I have said before : this debases the currency of the argument - this is entirely removing the idea of anti-semitism from the brutal reality of this murderous prejudice and turning it into a viciously egotistic game of ... ideological prejudice ? ... And what is Judaism - but a theological ideology ? ... Judaism is not defined by race but by belief - and anti-semitism is exactly the same : the difference is that Judaism is a moral-ethical system which objects very strongly to harming others - and as such it is compatible with The Rule of Law ... because it demands justice for all !

PLEASE IGNORE THESE VICIOUS ALLEGATIONS BY BIASED IGNORANT PEOPLE - IGNORE ME !!! - JUST ASCERTAIN THE FACTS ABOUT JUDAISM FOR YOURSELF :

HERE IS A BRIEF GUIDE TO JEWISH LITERATURE - http://www.worldlibrary.org/articles/siddur


[ TRUE - NOT MY SPECIALIST SUBJECT : MOST JEWISH PRAYERS CONSIST OF PRAISING AND THANKING GOD - AND THEY ARE STRAIGHTFORWARD AND NOT MYSTICAL : THE ONE I PARTICULARLY LIKE ADVOCATES COMPLETE TRUTHFULNESS - AND JACKIE WALKER HAS CERTAINLY STRIVEN FOR THIS.]

The Truth ? - " God " as " The Good " is the measure of all things : concerned criticisms must not be confused with hostile prejudices ... and this is good advice - even for atheists and non-theists.

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[ THE FOLLOWING DAY : I HAVE BEEN VERY ANGRY ABOUT THE RIDICULOUS WAY IN WHICH JACKIE WALKER HAS BEEN TREATED - BUT LET ME TRY TO BE MORE CONSTRUCTIVE ... ]

MY OWN DEFINITION OF " ANTI-SEMITISM " - OR ANY " ANTI-X-ISM " - LIKE " ANTI-ISLAMIC-ISM " ... IS THAT IT IS A PLANNED AND SYSTEMATIC BEHAVIOUR ...

... When people make casual remarks - basically repeating what they have heard - and do so thoughtlessly it is not " Anti-Semitism " ... e.g. several weeks ago I met a young Muslim whilst I was in a distracted state ( i.e. I did not have a pen handy and I had hopefully picked up one left on the pavement - desperate to write something down lest I forget it ! ) and he was kind and helpful and wanted to take me to our local mosque and offer me the benefits of Islam ... So inevitably I ended up trying to convert him to a more intelligent view of religion ( I have encountered his Imam before - who duly turned up later to rescue that lam from this wolf ... NO - I DO NOT MEAN " PREDATORY HOMO " - ALTHOUGH THAT IMAM IS SO PARANOID HE PROBABLY THINKS THAT ALL NON-MUSLIMS ARE SEXUAL PERVERTS ! ) ... i.e. that religion is the necessary human activity of collectively making sense of our experiences of The World - which is how I define the term " Spirituality " - hence every ideology is valid to a certain extent and so we should leave others alone to a certain extent to enjoy their religious beliefs - but if you are serious about religion and " Hungry for God " then you really want to know about other religions e.g. I have The Torah, Testament, Koran and Krishnamurti by my bedside right now because I am " Hungry for God " - and so I am hungry to increase my understanding ...

... What this young man wanted to know was whether I shared his opinion of The Jews - because he had been blissing out on the teachings of a certain Muslim opinion former on Youtube and he wanted to show me this video on his mobile phone ... Well to be honest I still have not quite got over how pleasant and amenable our local Jihadi Joker was after having not converted me to the merits of persuading The Unbelievers with " The Divided Sword " ... I am equally pleasant and amenable I did not mind myself being compared to an unbelieving goat in contrast to a faithful sheep - until he showed me his video of several live goats being swiftly decapitated in succession ... I rather like goats ... and in Wales they are The Symbol of Freedom - and to be honest I never understood why most people do not want to be " The Scapegoat " and driven out into The Wilderness like me ... after all - the whole point is that " The Lamb " not only gets crucified but barbequed and eaten too ... The Scapegoat just wanders off in The Hope of meeting one of The Lady Scapegoats - like Jackie Walker ? ... Anyhow - when I explained that I was a touch J-J-J-Jew-ish-ish-ish and then gave him my lecture about securing facts and learning about arguments ... He wanted to know why Jews think that it is lawful to rape babies ... >sigh< ... He knew this for a fact because it is in The Talmud ... >sigh< ... because his video-imam had cited the relevant passage and explained what it meant ... >sigh< ...

... I do not like The Talmud : but I explained to this teenage Muslim that this is a body of medieval legal texts - which really are really medieval ( but of course some people think that just because something is old it is important and revere it - unless of course it is just some old greying mad geezer lecturing you about how most people only briefly mention their " god " before telling you next that they are Jewish or Muslim or Christian or Atheist and thereafter just talk about themselves ... ) ... The passage in question is - as I understand it - to do with small orphaned girls who have nobody to protect them : in medieval societies - whatever their religious conceits - children were property and girls were frequently considered to be a financial liability to be offloaded ... so The Rabbinim seem to have adapted the rules of marriage instead of inventing a proper new category : a sort of technical marriage to a benefactor removed all other legal claims upon the girl - but if such a benefactor believed this conferred conjugal rights he was badly advised ... such medieval sexual crimes were punishable by death - in which case the girl would inherit all of his property ... But do not take my word for this I told my young Muslim acquaintance - go and read some proper Jewish stuff : if you find the real thing offensive that is OK - because at least it will be real ...

... and frankly - I wish to challenge those who are obviously being coerced into believing that Jackie Walker is making " anti-semitic " statements to take the same advice that I gave that young Muslim who was apparently being coerced by his peers' pressure to agree to believe in - and presumably practice - real anti-semitism - because these are exactly the same thing !


I said above that " ANTI-X-ISM " is planned and systematic behaviour : to go back to my little mantra - such behaviour progresses like this ... it begins with Lies - typically little jokey ones which " explain " those differences which cause anxieties without anybody bothering to find out whether the explanations are true or not : a lot of such Lies are told about those who are a long way away and / or more or less entirely imaginary e.g. Satan has been much maligned and contempted - and it does not hurt God to indulge in hating him either : He is after all The Big Guy and always sympathetic to those who are upset ... To be honest I am not entirely sure how Satan feels about my abusing himself and his companions but apparently my ex-ex-ex-ex thinks that she does and is looking forward to my finally meeting him ... Ah - there is a point in there that I want to address later ... Lies provide the licence for Hatred e.g. in The EU Referendum recently there were a lot of lies publicly told about migrants to Wales and as a consequence there were numerous reports of people experimenting with expressing their hostilities towards those who were " foreign " i.e. different in ways which had upset them which they had not felt able to say before ... Hatred provides the justification for Enslavement e.g. poorer people are contemptable - and they smell - therefore why should we pay the unskilled the same as ourselves ? ...

... Enslavement is often dressed up as beneficience - but when bosses have no further use for workers they are not sentimental about sacking their employees because they are exploiting them for profit and indeed after sending them a Christmas card each year their secretaries are often instructed to give everybody bad references in retaliation for not yielding the desired profits ... War is just the next step : it is not just that The Ultraists draw a boundary around themselves and see everybody else as " other " in seizing hold of The State but that they have rivals in control of other states which are mutually " other " ... The Ultraists have no problem in killing " others " in pursuit of what they want - either in wars against other Ultraists in which many of the " others " die - or in wars to secure control The State against their own " others." ... Hierocracy, Democracy, Aristocracy and Monarchy arise successively through these planned and systematic behaviours of The Ultraists and " ANTI-X-ISM " is a political strategy e.g. Racism in The USA not only persisted but got worse after The American Civil War because of the economic incentive that arose out of the ending of Enslavement and the bankrupting of the southern states : arguably The People in Poverty were not only inevitably black but poorer than slaves - ? ... The trouble with Racism is that when The People in Poverty are in economic conflict with each other then generally will be in a rage and emphasising whatever differences exist between them as they lash out - but this is not planned and systematic behaviour and so by my definition is not Racist ... But it is stupid - and people are usually ashamed of these outbursts and they often apologise to each other afterwards : so I do not think that abusive language is " ANTI-X-ISM " - and if that cleverly expresses our anxieties about our differences then it can be positively beneficial because it can bring them to an end - and as you may have noted I occasionally mimic " Racism " in order to criticise it.

You may have also noted that I am very reluctant to either censor or delete other people's posts on " Y Repwblic " - and this is not due to any devil-may-care attitude nor to some limp Liberal instinct ... " ANTI-X-ISMS " are always around : those who practice Racism are not just stupid or vicious or immoral ... generally they belong to communities which use " ANTI-X-ISMS " for the purposes of cohesion by creating a shared identity : it is a bit like supporting Wrexham - " We know that your team is crap but it is OUR team ! " ... I like knocking Wrexham FC supporters like this for a particular reason : I like them ... Lots of sports supporters practice mutual mock hostilities between themselves and of course the classic one for us is England V Wales which is entirely in a different league to purely local sporting events like " The Superbowl " or " The World Series " ... Dafydd's / Moritz's game of " Protestant V Catholic " is played this way - so I do not censor it - but I still get jittery about it because if the reader is not Welsh this is likely to be offensive to some and according to the theory behind these " anti-semitism " allegations this must also be a full-blown " ANTI-X-ISM " ... but I have defined that as planned and systematic behaviour - and I define it that way for a reason ... " ANTI-X-ISM " does not consist of angry outbursts designed to hurt " The Other " who frightened or upset or offended the person blurting them : as a Meta-Ideologist what I have observed about " ANTI-X-ISTS " is that they are calm, calculating and consistent - purposeful, polite and ... plausible ... and if you ever do encounter real anti-semitism I assure you that you will find it plausible.

ONLY FACTS AND ARGUMENTS CAN BREAK THE SPELLS OF " ANTI-X-ISMS " -

- Jackie Walker is not alone in being schemed against by the supporters of The United Kingdom : this " anti-semitism " campaign seems to be a case of the tail wagging the dog - all over Wales and The World there has been a wave of such allegations which have taken naive people who are unused to the methods used by " ANTI-X-ISTS " by surprise ... They know that they do not approve of anti-semitism - GOOD - but they have never actually encountered it - AS I HAVE : I ENDED UP IN A HOSPITAL BED - so they do not know what it looks like ... so they are being told - in this case by student lobbyists that are clearly anti-Labour ( - and not even Jewish ! - ) - that they will be bad people if they do not agree that Jackie Walker is an " anti-semite " ( - who is Jewish ! ) ... Those persuaded to support these allegations are of course the same age as that young Muslim that I mentioned before - and the mechanism is the same : peer pressure - and the remedy is the same : go and look at authentic Jewish and Anti-Semitic material. ... But before you go about that task - look around for and please keep an eye out for these same allegations being simultaneously made in other countries : I believe that these allegations are being orchestrated - that those making them have been drawn in by plausible explanations over a number of years ... this is not merely the planned and systematic behaviour of a handful of prejudiced individuals ... I do not believe that this is even directed at The People in Wales and The World : I do not believe that this is even being directed against those deemed to be the external political adversaries of Israel ...

... This is being orchestrated to isolate The Left in Israel who are opposing " The Peace Solution " - annexation - so my suspicion is that these " anti-semitism " allegations must have been systematically planned by those who oppose the increasing demand for Peace there ... ? ... Was I so gullible ... >sigh< ... A REFERENDUM RE:PENTRANCE ?

https://peacenow.org/entry.php?id=20292#.V-6wUvlVK1E

APN 09/05/16 - Decision at 50 Press Release : A New Movement Demanding a Referendum on the Fate of Israeli Control over the Palestinian Territories and on the Future of Israel

Today (Monday, September 5th) "Decision at 50" launched a campaign demanding a referendum on the future of the Territories and the future of Israel during the 50th year of Israel's control over the West Bank and Gaza. Under the slogan "It's time to decide," the movement will promote a large scale media campaign, accompanied by public events and direct action throughout the country meant to collect signatures of Israeli citizens in support of a Knesset referendum bill. ... "Decision at 50" was initiated by a group of organizations and individuals, including "Peace Now," "Blue White Future," as well as former security officials, former politicians, artists and social activists. ...

... Among the supporters who already signed the demand are Ami Ayalon (former head of Shin Ben, former MK), Gen (Res.) Amarm Mitzana (formerly mayor of Yeruham and mayor of Haifa and Labor Party Chairman), Rabbi Michael Melchior, Alik Ron (Former Commander of the Northern Police District), Brig. Gen. (Ret.) Giora Inbar , Gavri Banai, Avi Buskila, Yuli Tamir (former Minister of Education) Ophir Paz-Pines (former MK) Gilead Sher ( Chief of Staff and Policy Coordinator to Israel's former Prime Minister and Minister of Defense, Ehud Barak), Daniel Ben Simon (former MK), Tzali Reshef (former MK), Noa Rothman, Uzi Baram (former Minister and MK), Emilie Moatti, Orni Petruschka, Riki Blich, Col. (ret.) Shaul Arieli (head of the Peace Administration under the Barak government) and many others. ...

... Ami Ayalon of "Blue White Future:" Every day in which our control over the Palestinian Territories persists brings us closer to the end of Israel as the democratic state of the Jewish people. Netanyahu sees the disaster ahead, but he is not courageous enough to act. Due to the lack of leadership, it is our duty as Israeli citizens to determine our future.Only a decision made through a referendum will express the will of the people and allow us to continue and build the state of Israel without violence between us." ... Avi Buskila, General Director of "Peace Now: "for 50 years Israeli governments are deciding not to decide on the question of the Palestinian territories. This lack of decision is endangering us. We do not have clear and recognized borders and Israeli society is being torn apart by the most critical question for the future of Israel. This cannot go on. It is time to decide, and if the government won't do it, we, Israelis, will lead the way. On the 50th year of Israeli control over the Palestinian territories we are calling for a historic referendum which will illustrate whether Israeli citizens seek a one state or a two state solution in the long run."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-37515057 - Shimon Peres funeral : Leaders hail legacy of former Israeli leader

World leaders have hailed the vision of the late Israeli leader, Shimon Peres, as he was laid to rest days after his death at the age of 93. ... Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu described him as "a great man of the world", as he led the eulogies. ... US President Barack Obama said the presence of Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas at the funeral was a reminder of the "unfinished business of peace". ... Delivering an emotional address, Mr Netanyahu said that while Israel and the world grieved for Mr Peres there was hope in his legacy. ... "Shimon lived a life of purpose," he told thousands gathered at Jerusalem's Mount Herzl cemetery. ... "He soared to incredible heights. He swept so many with his vision and his hope. He was a great man of Israel. ...

"He was a great man of the world."

... mmm ... I do not quite remember them saying those things before : suicide or murder ? ... Confused

http://www.opensourceshakespeare.org/views/plays/play_view.php?WorkID=juliuscaesar&Act=3&Scene=2&Scope=scene

The Tragedy of Julius Caesar - ACT 3 : SCENE 2 - lines 1611 to 1656

First Citizen.

This Caesar was a tyrant.

Third Citizen.

Nay, that's certain : We are blest that Rome is rid of him.

Second Citizen.

Peace ! let us hear what Antony can say.

Antony.

You gentle Romans,—

Citizens.

Peace, ho ! let us hear him.

Antony.

Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them ;
The good is oft interred with their bones ;
So let it be with Caesar. The noble Brutus
Hath told you Caesar was ambitious :
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Caesar answer'd it.
Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest -
For Brutus is an honourable man ;
So are they all, all honourable men -
Come I to speak in Caesar's funeral.
He was my friend, faithful and just to me :
But Brutus says he was ambitious ;
And Brutus is an honourable man.
He hath brought many captives home to Rome
Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill :
Did this in Caesar seem ambitious ?
When that the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept :
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff :
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious ;
And Brutus is an honourable man.
You all did see that on the Lupercal
I thrice presented him a kingly crown,
Which he did thrice refuse : was this ambition ?
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious ;
And, sure, he is an honourable man.
I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know.
You all did love him once, not without cause :
What cause withholds you then, to mourn for him ?
O judgment ! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason. Bear with me ;
My heart is in the coffin there with Caesar,
And I must pause till it come back to me.

First Citizen.

Methinks there is much reason in his sayings.

Second Citizen.

If thou consider rightly of the matter, Caesar has had great wrong.

Third Citizen.

Has he, masters ? I fear there will a worse come in his place.


[ REPUBLICANS SEE RELIGION AS THE NECESSARY PRECURSOR TO POLITICS : MORALITY MUST PRECEDE ETHICS - BUT DEMOCRATS CLAIM THAT THESE TWO ARE SEPARATE : THAT RELIGION IS A PRIVATE MATTER - AND THEREFORE THEIR MORALITIES CAN NOT BE SUBJECTED TO ANY PUBLIC SCRUTINY ... THIS IS IN ORDER TO AVOID DISCLOSING WHAT THEY REALLY THINK - THEY ONLY PRESENT TO YOU WHAT MIGHT PERSUADE YOU TO PUT THEM INTO POWER : THE SAME RULE APPLIES IN ALL NON-POLITICAL SYSTEMS - THE ONLY TRULY POLITICAL SYSTEMS ARE REPUBLICAN WHICH IS WHY THEY HAVE TO IMITATE US : DEMOCRATS NOT ONLY CONDUCT THEIR " RELIGIONS " IN " PRIVATE " BUT ALSO THEIR " POLITICS " AND THUS WHEN A CRISIS OCCURS - A FUNERAL - A REFERENDUM - AND THEY HAVE TO PERFORM IN PUBLIC ... WHAT DO WE SEE ? ... HENCE I REJECTED DEMOCRACY. ]


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[ WRITING IS MY DRUG - MORE ADDICTIVE THAN CRACK COCAINE ? - TIME TO DO A LITTLE READING : JACKIE'S PLIGHT CONCERNS ME ]

[ ONE OF THE BITTER IRONIES ABOUT " Y REPWBLIC " IS THAT MY ADVOCACY OF " WHITE POLITICS " HAS LED TO POLITICAL ILLITERATES THINKING I AM A FASCIST ! ]

Jackie Walker is a founder member of KARN - " Kent Anti-Racism Network " : Neo-Nazis are trying to exploit anti-immigration sentiment in South East of England - do not worry ! - Y Saison will take their Groes Goch back !

https://antifascistnetwork.org/tag/kent-anti-racism-network/ = https://antifascistnetwork.org/

Dover – Solidarity and Kettled Nazis

Today, anti-fascists from across the country stood in solidarity with locals from around Dover to oppose neo-nazis and assorted far-right rejects who decended on the town, once more openly flying fascist flags and seig heiling.

Interesting is it not : those falsely attacking Jackie Walker are actually fellow travelers with real anti-semites ...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually I will have to do a bit of thinking about how to tie these back to the theme of this thread - " Properly Separating Religion & Politics - usefully ! " - perhaps KARN will not be very keen on my perception of such groups formed in the 1970s : that there were some very earnest and sincere - gentle and thoughtful - people in such groups ... yet the prospect of a " legitimate " fight with a designated " enemy " which clearly identifies itself with flags, badges, symbols, chants etc also draws in the mirror images of what those people oppose ... this problem is not new : this is one of the issues in the 1870s which divided the more respected National Republican League [ which inherited the triband " Red, White, Green " derived from the Pacifist Internationalist Republican tricolour which I prefer - " The 1792 ! " - the flag of " Moral Force " Chartism ] from the less respected National Republican Brotherhood [ which inherited the triband " Blue, White, Green " derived from the Militant Nationalist Republican tricolour whose origins lie in the 1820s in Iolo Morgannwg's Gorsedd but after being carried in The Newport Rising in 1839 became first the " British " and then the " English " tricolour : it is still officially the flag of " The Republicans in England " but the strong shift to The Left after World War One led to it being abandoned. The Complete Suffrage Union triband is still often seen England but its associations have changed to be explicitly Feminist i.e. The Suffragists got their male vote and then left The Suffragettes to fight for the female vote - " Give Workers Votes " became " Give Women Votes " - " Green, White, Violet " was originally the flag of The Bonapartists in Britain : Napoleon's nick-name was " Corporal Violet " - he carried violets with him into exile on Elba taken from the grave of Josephine.] ... AH : SEE - MY ADDICTION ... BUT THIS IS THE STUFF OF RELIGION : EXPLAINING PRESENT CIRCUMSTANCES IN TERMS OF PAST EXPERIENCES - THE TRANSMISSION OF USEFUL INFORMATION - SO THAT WE DO NOT FORGET WHAT OTHERS LEARNED AND OPPOSE THOSE WHO WOULD MISREPRESENT WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO JUSTIFY CORRUPT PRACTICES ...

... RELIGION IS THE PRECURSOR OF POLITICS : IT IS OUR UNDERSTANDING OF OUR PASTS WHICH DECIDES HOW WE WILL TRY TO CREATE OUR FUTURES ...

... RELIGION IS OUR DEBATE ABOUT MORALITY - ABOUT OUR AIMS - & - POLITICS IS OUR DEBATE ABOUT ETHICALITY - ABOUT OUR MEANS : BOTH MUST BE PUBLICLY DEBATED BECAUSE WE NEED TO CONDUCT OUR DIALECTICS COLLECTIVELY IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO CREATE A RATIONAL RELIGIOUS MORALITY AND A REASONABLE POLITICAL ETHICS : BY DEFINITION REPUBLICANISM IS ABOUT " DE RES PUBLICA " - HENCE " THE OPEN CONSPIRACY " REJECTS THE NON-POLITICAL SYSTEM OF " THE UNITED KINGDOM " BECAUSE IT IS DELIBERATELY OPPOSES THIS ...

... I doubt that Jackie Walker has ever heard of " The Open Conspiracy " but she clearly subscribes to the same stances associated with Republicanism - and is she is clearly the object of " The Closed Conspiracy " for whom " The United Kingdom " is but one mechanism.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like a couple of Christy Moore's songs but I am uneasy about his political analyses : I share his religion i.e. his morality - but I practice a different version of his politics : an ethical difference which is more one of a degree of disagreement rather than a conflict ... [ text about some songs about Margaret Thatcher ]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ec82YUtvZNU = https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJh0m0E7Ozg = https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S4bkPli4qf0 = Moneterism has become the orthodox religion & yet after the misery of 1980s we can not even write a song about it ? We need to create a new religion to transmit our knowledge
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have switched on to find out the exact wording of what has just been reported on the news : the wording of this new definition of anti-semitism ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38281950 = 3 hours ago

Anti-Semitism: Theresa May attacks 'twisted' Labour views

[ WELL THAT IS NOT A GOOD BEGINNING : WHY HAVE THE BBC STARTED WITH THIS BIAS ? ]

Theresa May has accused the Labour Party of "turning a blind eye" towards anti-Semitism as she announced plans to help tackle hatred of Jewish people. ... The UK has adopted an international definition of anti-Semitism, which police, councils, universities and public bodies can use. ... Announcing the move, the PM said it was "disgusting" that anti-Semitic views were being found in British politics. ... Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's spokesman said anti-Semitism was "repugnant". ... [ FINE : SO WE ARE ALL AGREED - EXCEPT THAT WE DO NO AGREE UPON THE DEFINITION OF " ANTI-SEMITISM " ] ... On Tuesday, the government will publish its response to the Home Affairs Select Committee's calls for political leaders to do more to tackle the issue. ... Its Anti-Semitism in the UK Report criticised Mr Corbyn for a lack of "consistent leadership" on anti-Semitism but said that the majority of abuse was motivated by far-right parties rather than Labour. ... [ GOSH ] ... Downing Street said anti-Semitic behaviour could be overlooked because the term was ill-defined, with different organisations adopting their own interpretations. ... Police in the UK already use the IHRA definition. However, it can now also be used by other bodies, such as councils and universities, although it will not be legally binding. ...

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-leads-the-way-in-tackling-anti-semitism

12 December 2016 - Press release - Prime Minister's Office, 10 Downing Street, Department for Communities and Local Government, The Rt Hon Sajid Javid MP and The Rt Hon Theresa May MP

Government leads the way in tackling anti-Semitism

Government to adopt the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s (IHRA) working definition of anti-Semitism.

... Britain will be one of the first countries to adopt the definition, agreed by the IHRA, an intergovernmental body made up of 31 member countries, in May this year. It states:

Anti-Semitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities. ...

... mmm ... WELL MY REACTION TO THIS IS THAT IT IS BUT A SUS LAW ... oooh ...

" Anti-Semitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred towards Jews. " is an utterly vacuous statement and it is dangerously vague : you can not build a law upon something so lacking in any concrete definitions of what it means e.g. what about somebody who has construed an irrational fear of people that they imagine to be Jewish - not a person who hates Jews or who has ever met any but who has been reading Christian or Muslim literature and has been frightened by what they have read ? If they understand this to be an irrational fear and go to see a psychologist or tell a school teacher or college lecturer about this who is duty bound by law to do so will they be reported as an " anti-semite " ?

" Rhetorical and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities." ... Obviously Theresa May is unaware of some of the fanatically factional hair-splitting that goes on within Judaism : my ancestry is apparently derived from the Qaraim / Karaim and if this is the definition of " anti-semitism " then the Ashenazim in particular are " anti-semite " ( or perhaps vice-versa.)

Now it occurs to me that the BBC ought to fall foul of this IHRA definition having just published this :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38223114 = 6 December 2016

Scare the mother, save the child: The women pressured to give up their children

Inside the closed world of Hasidic Jews in the UK are stories of mothers who risk everything in order to leave their communities, with their children. ... Emily and Ruth are two women who found themselves locked in lopsided battles - facing harassment, intimidation, and crowd-funded lawyers. ... Neither of them realised what it would cost them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-75361d40-67f0-4544-bb29-c9bee5b2251f

[ THIS IS A STORY WHICH IF IT WERE NOT ABOUT ULTRA-ORTHODOX JEWS WOULD PROBABLY BE REPORTED IN TERMS OF CRIMINALITY - I THINK THAT IF THIS WAS ABOUT MUSLIMS THERE WOULD BE NO SUCH DELICACY - IF ABOUT CHRISTIANS IT WOULD BE REPORTED IN TERMS SUCH AS " SINISTER CULT " - NEO-PAGANS " SATANIC CULT " - HINDUS " BLOODTHIRSTY VEGANS KIDNAPPED MY BABIES FOR THEIR ORGANS ! " ]

At the bottom of this from a Republican point of view is that introducing such definitions for legal usage is basically creating a law of " attainder." Laws of attainder are normally directed against an individual or minority and indict them as criminals by virtue of who they are : their alleged crimes are only listed after the fact of their being pronounced " guilty." This is what was done to Jews for centuries by Christians, and also what was done to Christians by Muslims, and - oh : look basically this is what Hierocrats do to anybody who does not submit to their authority - this is a form of Ultraism being practiced on the basis of ideology ... of oppressing those who do not subscribe to a particular set of ideas ... and that is what this IHRA definition looks like to me : a bunch of clerics have produced this definition of " anti-semitism " and it obviously makes sense to them - and Theresa May is being over-solicitious towards the feelings of what she takes to be the spokespersons of the Jewish community but in fact IHRA is a specialist interest group - a Hierocracy whose interests this statement is designed to serve ... this does not serve ordinary Jewish people but tends to discredit the idea of " anti-semitism " which by definition is not merely a personal prejudice or a casual and un-examined remark but a systematic and organised campaign of abuse ( not necessarily driven by hatred e.g. just because those doing it find it amusing to upset sensitive people e.g. Jews baiting Rabbis by using their knowledge of Judaism for the purpose.)

Just going back to this a moment -

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-leads-the-way-in-tackling-anti-semitism

Israel guarantees the rights of people of all religions, races and sexualities, and it wants to enable everyone to flourish. [ UNTRUE ] Our aim in Britain is the same: to create a better, fairer society, helping everyone to reach as far as their talents will allow. [ UNTRUE ]

It is unacceptable that there is anti-Semitism in this country. [ TRUE : BUT SMALL IN COMPARISON TO ANTI-MUSLIM ] It is even worse that incidents are reportedly on the rise. As a government we are making a real difference and adopting this measure is a ground-breaking step.[ UNTRUE ]

It means there will be one definition of anti-Semitism [ UNTRUE : THIS STATEMENT DOES NOT DEFINE ANTI-SEMITISM ] – in essence, language or behaviour that displays hatred towards Jews because they are Jews – and anyone guilty of that will be called out on it. [ UNTRUE : MANY ANTI-SEMITIC CRIMES ARE NOT REPORTED AND THOSE RECORDED ARE RARELY INVESTIGATED - AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED AFTER BREXIT.]

Communities Secretary Sajid Javid said:

Anti-Semitism must be understood for what it is – an attack on the identity of people who live, contribute and are valued in our society. There can be no excuses for anti-Semitism or any other form of racism or prejudice. [ WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY JEWS SHOULD NOT BE SINGLED OUT AS A SPECIAL CASE : THOSE LOOKING FOR MINORITIES TO ATTACK ARE NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN JEWS BUT IN VIOLENCE - THE PRESENT CLIMATE CREATED BY THE OVERT RACISM OF THE CONSERVATIVE AND UNIONIST PARTY IS LICENCING THOSE WHO WANT THEM TO INDICATE WHO THEY CAN TARGET WITH THE SANCTION OF GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY : THE RISE IN ANTI-SEMITISM IS JUST PART OF THE PRESENT RISE IN VIOLENCE DIRECTED AGAINST MUSLIMS, HINDUS, LGBT, DISABLED, ELDERLY, HOMELESS, CHILDREN, POLICE, TEACHERS, DOCTORS ETC ]

... " Crimes must always be reported, and the law enforced, but we also want to create an environment that prevents hate crime from happening in the first place. ... [ SO HOW ABOUT ADDRESSING NOT MERELY THE HATE CRIMES BUT THE EXCESSIVE VIOLENCE AND CONSISTENT CRUELTY OF THE SECULAR STATE WHICH HAS CLOTHED ITSELF IN THE WORDS AND SYMBOLS OF JUDAISM AND THUS CONSTANTLY STOKES THE FIRES OF ANTI-SEMITISM IN THE UK ? ] ... The government has published its response to the Home Affairs Select Committee inquiry into anti-Semitism; and an update on the progress made in addressing the recommendations made by the All-Party Parliamentary Group Against anti-Semitism Inquiry into the rise in the number of anti-Semitic incidents following the Gaza conflict, published in 2015. ... [ DUH ] ...
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just pointed out me : almost glad that I missed them - I feel that I do not want to read them ...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/12/antisemitism-definition-government-combat-hate-crime-jews-israel

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/16/new-antisemitism-definition-silences-israels-critics

... later perhaps ... much later I hope ...
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh ... forgot to write about the above ... Just came across this video whose title & imagery mixes things up but not in the way that protesters against " Anti-Zionism " shading into " Anti-Semitism " like ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PqTOY7oQkoI

The point to me is that " Anti-Semitisn " idebtifies Jews as a racial group typically with those old crude Germanic stereotypes of people with beak-like noses etc - and they are Germanic : Jews are racially diverse but there is a bunch of people in mid northern Europe who look like that - but that does not make them Jewish - just of mid northen European heritage ... Probably Catholics ? ... After all a lot of those have curly red hair ... and freckles : surely that is a sign that they have been consorting with The Devil ? ... And they drink the blood of Jewish babies and grind their infant bones down into a paste from which they press their wafers and ... Well don't they ? ... Oh ! Really ? The Martians ?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must come back and develop some of these bits better - but meanwhile : to address my complaint about Jonathan Arkush trivialising the issue of Anti-Semitism with his shrill denunciations - here is a documentary which sort of hits the mark excepting I do not like all of the overworked overacting ... This suffers I think from that New Labour form of racism called tokenism e.g. in this instance " Jews first came to Britain three hundred and fifty years ago as refugees " ( not true ) " a hundred thousand Jews in London's East End were refugees " ( not true - not in Mosley's days in the 1930s : most were born in Britain of parents some of whom had been pogromed maybe - and Britain was more or less as Anti-Semitic at the time as Poland - but the lovely thing to remember was that when Mosley's Blackshirts tried to march into the East End streets ( with police officers protecting them ) they found themselves facing those streets utterly blocked shoulder to shoulder with every Jew outnumbered by ten who came to stand by them - so : yes - remember Fascism etc but remember the whole truth of mutual solidarity - it is as much about those who opposed Anti-Semitism as those who practised it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mzOFbPJs4tc

The War on Britain's Jews - Richard Littlejohn

( just to record a few of his dafter remarks - Israel comes into being and Palestinians instantaneously hate it ... what : were no Palestinians killed, raped, murdered, deprived of their homes, farms and businesses, and their nationality etc - the Palestinians just suddenly conceived a perverse hatred of Jews ? ... No : Palestinians are usually very precise and factual and strongly disapprove of Anti-Semitism because they have thought these matters out and incidentally so have The People in Israel who are not in fact all Jewish and even those nominally so are not mostly disinterested in any religion and often treat the whole " Jewish State " idea with contempt. - And there he goes comparing Ersatz Israel to poor little Wales ... true : we are harmless and nobody else would give a toss if we liberated Snowden and commandeered the mountain railways - but if those claiming to act on behalf of " Real Israel " i.e. take The Temple Mount and start charging entrance fees there will be uproar across The Muslim's bit of The World and blame will be attached to anybody they imagine to be Jewish i.e. to " Real Israel " which is a bunch of The People in The World ... There is a good argument to be made out that if secular Jews i.e. people who do not give a toss for Judaism or Jews wwre to do this knowing the harm which would follow to " Real Israel " that would be blatently an act of pre-meditated Anti-Semitism.

Trying to catch further bits of this : something which strikes me is that all through this Richard Littlejohn uses directly abusive language such as (?) " Wearing his Anti-Racism as a slogan on his Wolfie Smith t-shirt " of people like Ken Livingstone and then denigrates the same for remarking about being dogged by a hostile journalist ( without knowing that he was Jewish ? ) that he was like a concentration camp guard - only doing his job ? ... Now surely there are double standards of the worst sort here : the latter remark is figurative not abusive as the first is ... and the latter remark was made under provoking circumstances whereas Littlejohn's is unprovoked and gratuitious slander. ... Having a swear at Littlejohn's stereotyping of what might be labeled " hard-line Zionist Jews " where towards the end he is interviewing some people as technically Jewish-ish-ish as me I suspect who are complaining about " Jewish religious leaders " who are very pro-Israel ... BUT : there is a bit of racism ... whilst Littlejohn talks of religious leaders who are pro-Israeli the filming cuts to footage of Ultra-Orthodox men i.e. probably Haredim : the very group of religious Jews which object to the existence of " The State of Israel " and oppose its behaviour.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POST SCRIPT - Clearly Littlejohn's presentation of the issue rested on my mind as being a species of pseudo-journalism manufacturing consent to an idea ... i.e. it was Hieorocratic ... I pasted together this later that evening -

http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=4533#4533

- the question is - I think - one of " Toleration " and perhaps I should write one - or paste one - about that : basically " Hate the sinner, Love the sin " ... er ... well something like that ... actually that is quite a good " saw " for " Dai Saw " to make : there is something like that going on with this false " Me too ! " Anti-Semitism : those campaigning about it are desperate to find examples to complain about and almost seem to be clutching at straws ... I am not talking about the sort of things usually seen in proper documentaries - and which I myself have witnessed - e.g. desecration of Jewish cemeteries add assaults on Jews as reported in Littlejohn's ... thingy ... I am talking about a sort of " Me too ! " culture by which somebody humorously commenting upon somebody Jewish accidentally picking up a fork to use in the sugar bowl finds themselves being vigorously compared to Dr Joseph Mengele ... This is what debases the currency of the argument about Anti-Semitism - and also treats the memory of what happened on the The Shoah as a weapon against others ... and is used to deliberately not remember that it was only only half of The Holocaust which was the mass murder of 11.5 million - and given some of these " ME TOO ! " accounts of World War Two and what happened before it and after it the only people involved in it were Nazis and Jews ... the exclusivity created by the emphasis upon " Me too ! " is noticeable in particular in relation to The Nakba : it is as if there is a car crash in Jerusalem in which possibly perhaps probably the Palestinian passengers are injured, bloodied and trapped with the flames taking hold of the vehicle and some " Me too ! " stands beside it lecturing them self-importantly about how his now long-deceased but once elderly aunt had cut her finger but fortunately had narrowly avoided burning her hand with the toaster by having had the good sense not to stick her fingers into it ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is bizarre - what about the political and religious tolerance ? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolerance

- of course the word " Tolerance " may not have good associations historically for Jews ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolerance_tax

Tolerance tax (Toleranzgebührer) was a tax that was levied against Jews of Hungary, then part of the Austrian Empire, between 1747 and 1797. The tax was based on the German statute that a Jew was obliged to pay a certain tax to be "tolerated". ... [ I THINK THAT THIS WAS TAKEN FROM A MUSLIM TAX ] ... [ ACTUALLY THIS PAGE IS WORTH READING IN ORDER TO REMEMBER WHY I DEFINE ANTI-SEMITISM AS " ORGANISED AND SYSTEMATIC " ] ... On September 1, 1749, the delegates of the Hungarian Jews, except those from Szatmár County, assembled at Pressburg and met a royal commission, which informed them that they would be expelled from the country if they did not pay this tax. The frightened Jews at once agreed to do so; and the commission then demanded a yearly tax of 50,000 gulden. ... the courts ... were powerless to relieve the Jews from the payment of this Malkegeld (queen's money), as they called it ... The Jews ... were not allowed to live in Croatia and Slavonia, in Baranya and Heves Counties, or in several free royal towns and localities; nor might they visit the markets there. At Stuhlweissenburg (Székesfehérvár) they had to pay a poll-tax of 1 gulden, 30 kreuzer if they entered the city during the day, if only for an hour. ... The Jews also had to pay heavier bridge-and ferry-tolls than the Christians ... Jews living on the estates of the nobles had to give their wives and children as pledges for arrears of taxes. ... [ The Malkegeld ] of 20,000 gulden was increased to 30,000 gulden in 1760; to 50,000 in 1772; to 80,000 in 1778; and to 160,000 in 1813. ... After 1789, the Jews paid a tolerance tax of 4 guilder per family, a tax on kosher meat, a marriage tax, a tax on the synagogues and cemeteries of 100 guilder per year, and a quota tax of 50 guilder per year ... In 1797, after the death of Joseph II, the tolerance tax and the taxes on homes and properties were replaced by a candle tax on Jewish religious candles ... In Croatia, Slavonia, and Dalmatia, further rights were granted to Jews in 1840, but the "tolerance tax" remained in force. ...

... WHICH IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE INVERSION OF THE MEANING OF A WORD : COULD IT BE THAT " ANTI-SEMITISM " IS NOW BEING INVERTED TO MEAN " ANTI-GOYISM " ?

I was thinking more of this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toleration

" ... There is only one verb 'to tolerate' and one adjective 'tolerant,' but the two nouns 'tolerance' and 'toleration' have evolved slightly different meanings. Tolerance is an attitude of mind that implies non-judgmental acceptance of different lifestyles or beliefs, whereas toleration indicates the act of putting up with something that one disapproves of ... "

" ... Toleration is "the practice of deliberately allowing or permitting a thing of which one disapproves. One can meaningfully speak of tolerating—i.e., of allowing or permitting—only if one is in a position to disallow." It has also been defined as "to bear or endure" or "to nourish, sustain or preserve" or as "a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, beliefs, practices, racial or ethnic origins, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry" too. Toleration may signify "no more than forbearance and the permission given by the adherents of a dominant religion for other religions to exist, even though the latter are looked on with disapproval as inferior, mistaken, or harmful." ... "

What I deduce from " The Model " is that it is foolish to even try to ban Sensations, Emotions and Cognitions - not just because it can not be practically done but because it is Anti-Political i.e. if people profess to hold obnoxious views then it is important to draw them into The Public Discourse where such views are often sheepishly swiftly abandoned ... It is counter-productive to prohibit somebody from genuinely fearing and hating Jews because it is in itself an act of fear and hatred towards them that results in any kind of transformative dialogue being prevented ... a better attitude to adopt is to see that such fears and hatreds are free-floating and even if such a person was persuaded not to fantasise about Jews they would promptly transfer them onto other fantasised about identities : this is why the non-politics of all sorts of fringe non-political identities is all about identity and difference ... politics involves identifying with others ... and therefore notably those who obsesses about Anti-Semitism are as often as not possess such fringe indentities : one of the notable things about The Nazis was that before the swastika they used the hammer and sickle and claimed to be Marxist - until The Aristocrats in Germany offered them money to get elected on an Anti-Communist ticket.

Likewise : note the kinds of non-political and non-religious people who are screaming about casual conversational remarks being " Anti-Semitism " - they are not merely debasing the currency of the argument ( basically because they are not really interested in the issue - they want to be part of something big and important they are not interested in understanding it ) - they are actually cultivating " Anti-Semitism " ( because they want it to continue in order to provide them with gratificaion : they are not victims of it themselves so they do not want it to stop - because they profit from it in so many ways.) ... And then I had a phone call and I forgot what I was going to say next to finish this ... " Love the sinner and hate the sin ! " is a good maxim for characterising Tolerance : it is not as drippy-hippy-happy-clappy-Jesus-wants-you-to-be-a-Jew a sort of an idea as it may first sound : think of it this way - we can never be sure that our own opinions are right so ... why not consider it possible to be mistaken and that our intense dislike of somebody else's opinion is in fact a tacit admission that they are right ? ...

Think about other members of your own family for example : why are you indifferent to the idea of complete strangers abducting, torturing and murdering them yet you yourself will be willing to consider doing this to your own sister over the forthcoming holiday period if she systematically goes through every box of chocolates stealing all of the strawberry ones - again - so if I were to joke to you that there is no such thing as an " SHJ " because we are far too busy hating all of the others ... is that Anti-Semitic ?

I think that generally speaking in the next few days I will be asked whether I believe in God and before I even answer " er ... " the non-questioning person questioning me will be announcing that they do because they are Jewish/Christian/Muslim/Sikh/Hindu/Satanist/Jedi/Agnostic/Atheist/etc and the rest of their conversation will be solely about themselves and why those who are different from them are wrong or at least inferior ... and that is where religion goes wrong : it is not about ourselves but about God ... the fact is that we are all different and that is why we are all the same : only those who want to harm others seize upon such differences to excuse themselves for doing so ... what motivates them ? ... In order to ask them why we need to be interested in others and encourage them to talk about their lives and how the feel about their relationships to others : if their experiences in those relationships are that they are being condemned for how they feel and think they will not disclose themselves ... To ban others from talking about their Sensations, Emotions and Cognitons because of their Actions is not just uncharitable it is fundamentally anti-religious because we refuse to understand, to sympathise, to enable transformation - " Love the sinner, Hate the sin " ... it seems to me that before people can stop sinning they need to be forgiven : we should talk softly to them but use the big stick to beat down the nettles and brambles which are holding them on that path - making it our responsibility to give them another path to walk ... another person's wrong-doing does not licence our doing wrong.

... blurbleblurble ... Of course some do not agree -

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z68yTJWXm5g
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About ***** time ...

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/arkush-sparks-new-yachad-row-1.430971

Board of Deputies president Arkush sparks new Yachad row

The president of the Board of Deputies decision to criticise a left-wing pro-Israel group which backed a UN resolution against Israeli settlements has triggered discord among deputies. ...

... Jonathan Arkush told Sunday’s Board plenary meeting he “unequivocally condemned” Yachad for backing Resolution 2334. ... ... Mr Arkush said: “I fail to understand how Yachad believes Resolution 2334 would contribute to the prospects of peace, given that leading progressive voices in Israel including Isaac Herzog and Tzipi Livni roundly condemned it.” ... He scolded the group for “deciding to take their views direct to government and other public bodies,” instead of going through the Board. ... But Mr Arkush’s criticisms were attacked by deputies at the meeting and led to further disagreement this week. ... Adrian Cohen, chairman of the London Jewish Forum, said the “lengthy and repeated” attack on Yachad was an “inappropriate use of Mr Arkush’s position”.

[ MAY BE THAT THE JEWISH CHRONICLE IS BEGINNING TO REALISE THAT NOT EVEN THE JC IS FAR ENOUGH TO THE RIGHT TO SATISY THE RIGHT ? ]
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From: David B Lawrence
Sent: 17 February 2017 00:44
To:
Subject: " anti-semitism " as practised in Israel : do you know of any imaginative and informed polemecists who could develop this argument convincingly ?

Dear

I would like to ask if this note was added by XXXX to the end of XXXX

" [ BASICALLY ARGUING THAT IF ISRAEL WAS FOUNDED TO PROVIDE A HOMELAND FOR JEWS THEN THIS PREMISE IS ESSENTIALLY RACIST ] "

I doubt that statement - I do not think that " Ersatz Israel " as I sometimes refer to it was founded " for Jews " - the reason for the Balfour Declaration was probably to provide a reason to claim territory close to the Suez Canal for British Interests.

It was in the nature of British Imperialism that colonisation tended to be led however by commercial interests - the unusual thing on this occasion was that those proposing the colony were SOME Jews and they had explicit ideas about OTHER Jews.

YES - " Ersatz Israel " was founded upon a racist basis - all European imperial projects were implicitly so ( although arguably under The East India Company the British were less racist in India before the British Government got involved.)

BUT - " Ersatz Israel " was explicitly conceived - before even the Balfour Declaration - upon a religiously sectarian basis, and I do not mean merely because Zionism is implicitly European : the Zionists explicitly intended to exclude certain Jews.

YES - that conception was later modified in order to allow immigration from all Jewry - BUT - that was because of an urgent need to have sufficient population to make the newly founded state to work hence - NO - it is not a homeland for Jews ...

" Ersatz Israel " is a state whose population serve those who first conceived of it and then those whom they welcomed ... then there were those they accepted ... then those they recruited ... arguably a class system which is sectarian and racist.

This is the kind of way that I think ... the term " anti-semitism " ought to be deconstructed : it is arguable that the Zionists in being upper middle class Europeans who did not welcome " the wrong sort of Jew " into their colony were anti-semites.

If " anti-semitism " means being treated with prejudice because of your racial origin, cultural practices or religious identity then surely in the layered society of " Ersatz Israel " anti-semitism is rife : or are the wrong sort of Jews content with this ?

Polemical ... but by a barely informed critic : whilst I react to it I have no prescriptions for the Israel-Palestine conflict other than the faith that whilst their leaders have much to gain from perpetrating it ordinary people on both sides do not want it.

In the hands of an imaginative and - more importantly - an informed polemicist an essay arguing that the very people who shriek so loudly about " anti-semitism " are in fact those most systematically practising it might at least be very amusing.

Perhaps you could pass this to somebody who might possess that ability ?

David B. Lawrence
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My computer sent off for a repair I found myself writing long texts on the phone. Whilst Jonathan Arkush is hysterically accusing those people who absent-mindedly pick up a fork to use in the sugar bowl of anti-semitism I am encountering people caught up in fantasies about The Talmud being a sinister text and this idea is I suspect being broadcast by real anti-semites covertly exciting uninformed minds ... not that I am well informed about The Talmud because I am of the opinion that Moses walked into Sinai with nothing more than his speedos and a pair of flip-flops and his faith in G#d ... It is possible perhaps that Sarah was just behind him pushing the wheelbarrow of books - but the text is silent.

What do you know of the Talmud Dai? could you recommend where i can find more on it and on quality jewish critique on it?

Talmud ? How deep do you want to go ? Personally I do not care for it because I like simplicity : that is why I reduced Republicanism to " Truth, Love, Liberty & Peace lead to - Life ! " & then devised remembering them by turning over the fingers of The Open Hand symbol which leaves the thumb up gesture " Life ! " Some years after I designed that I joined a discussion group with a view to understanding how observant Jewish people feel about things & I finally decided to look at The Talmud. I found a big 19c book online & I could not find the time to read it but the last chapter summarised the whole & it said that the key values of The Talmud are " Truth, Love, Law & Peace lead to - Life ! " American Republicans depict " Liberty " & " Justice " as sisters.

I was thinking more of well researched critique of it by jewish critics and its attack on christ, the gentiles etc such as elizabeth dilling previously did

Talmud is a religious legal system = Christian Canon Law = Muslim Sharia Law = these necessarily contain rules about relationships with persons of other faiths. Canon essentially treats non-believers as persons to be converted or killed - hence the "Crusades " were not just directed against Jews, Muslims & Pagans but also other Christians - Orthodox, Cathars, Bogomil, Protestants etc - which is why 17c Republicans were comparing the terrorism being conducted in the name of Christianity in Europe with the peaceful Muslim Middle Eastern realms where Sharia did not advocate killing non-believers but licenced coercing them through social exclusion & higher taxation. Talmud practices the social exclusion of non-believers in the same way that vegetarians do : if you take a roast suckling pig to a pot-luck dinner & are turned back at the door then you really ought to apologise - if they were vegetarians your hosts will not forgive you & they will wish you to be killed as a murderer - if they were Jewish they will forgive you & invite you back but advise you to bring something vegetarian next time. Jews of course disapprove of those who believe differently - especially & passionately those who sit on the wrong side of their own synagogue - but Judaism is henotheistic i.e. " But why do you want to convert to Judaism ? Haven't you got your own god to go home to ? "

Very interesting to hear your take-not sure i agree with the crusades being a christian thing though-the knights templars behind the crusades were a masonic led imposter and merceneary group within the roman catholicto church- not sure either that the talmud represents judaism as it seems to be merely a later rabbinical take on judaism which seems to me to have hijacked and attacked original judaism -to be discussed over a coffee perhaps!?

Jesus was addressed as " rabbi " & the early group led by James who preserved the memory of his charismatic brother were practising Judaism in a conventional way. It was the later group led by Paul who mixed Judaism with Hellenism who had not known Jesus the Man who turned him into Jesus the Christ by substituting him for some Greek god in a mystery cult in which they sought ecstatic visions. When The Hierocrats rebelled The Romans destroyed The Temple and suppressed what was taken to be Judaism at the time i.e. a priest-led form of government which had been a conquered client state within The Roman Empire in which the Emperors were at first also priests and then demanded that everybody worship them as gods. The Greeks did not mind - The Jews did : after The Temple fell and The Hierocrats were killed and so there was no possibility of making sacrifices Judaism was recreated solely in terms of studying The Torah & in being scattered & trying to survive a strict observance was instilled by the remaining leaders - The Rabbis ( " The Teachers.") It was out of this situation that the body of law known as The Talmud began to grow : it was progressive at first but as it developed it became both sophisticated & stagnant & became fossilised & in my opinion it finally got stuck in the 16c. This does not mean that it is bad but that it is irrelevant to modern people

I felt that I was shooting my mouth off casually & I should skim the Wikipedia page about Talmud - especially to recall why I think that this once progressive force ground to a halt in the 16c : the first printed editions led to it being debated by a wider & more critical audience - archaic words were hotly disputed & no longer left to the imagination - certain methods of argument were given authority over others & advising was replaced by controlling Sad

Using my imagination now : in Medieval Europe the cost of a copy of The Talmud hand written on vellum would have been fabulously expensive because it is a library not of just laws but of all of the supporting sources for them. No individual could have owned their own personal copy so in order to study it presumably people clubbed together to buy one or paid a fee to join a Beth Midrash which possessed one. This meant that it could not be read in isolation & given the price of candles this probably resulted in one person reading the passage being studied to the others & in his wrestling with some obscure word all the others would immediately start to interpret it for him, disputing the meaning of the passage, complaining about how they had paid good money for this privilege & ... & then suddenly the printing press sent the cost of The Talmud into free-fall & it was possible to buy a personal copy & study it privately with nobody around to contradict your excellent interpretation of the obvious meaning of the law concerning your neighbour's stray turnips

------------------------

Now I wonder if I can cull some ready examples of anti-semitism dressed up as a supposedly objective critique of The Talmud - ?

Talmud The Book Of Evil The Satanic Bible Of Jews -

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F42VOe5JkGo

The Evil Jewish Talmud Exposed

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf1O9-L5QIE

Satanic Babylonian Talmud Exposed

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xn25iOeu_1Q

The Talmud Exposed Synagogue Of Satan

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zY4FYKeTieE

Yeah - Yeah - Yeah ... The one which keeps on coming up when people accost me thinking that I am a scholar is the passage in The Talmud which " allows " men to marry and have sex with small girls. My answer is that the reasoning in The Talmud is all arguments have to be derived from precedents and they developed their child protection laws out of the only legal precedent available - marriage was not a sexual relationship but an economic one in providing for a " wife." The Prophet Mohammed followed this precedent in marrying a six year old girl and it is simply the case that this was a common practice in Medieval societies and was not thought of as evil : I am not saying that we should approve of it or even accept this as permissable within The Rule of Law but ...

... Modern and Post-Modern Republicanisms are as socially constructed as any other ideologies except in one respect - we know that they are whereas Judaisms and Islamicisms and Christianisms tend to pronounce other -isms to be false and indeed even brand other religions to be evil - we understand ideologies to construct their truths and to often substitute these descriptions of reality for Truth itself e.g. by constructing an idea such as " god " and planting it at the centre of their ideologies these religions simultaneously create very strong belief systems and very rigid ones : ...

... bizarrely somebody can use the word " sky " and not fall into the trap of thinking that the sky can be manipulated by pronouncing that word or addressing words to what that airy noise represents - yet do fall into that trap with the word " god " which is used for labelling and addressing something which we have experienced in order to communicate what we wish to convey to others. In seizing upon Mohammed marrying a six year old or The Talmud discussing marrying a three year old a person does so for their own purposes from within his own ideology - but to understand these things we have to subsume the ideologies in which these things were being discussed : my traveling to France does not mean that I am ever going to become French or start to enjoy eating snails - but I can struggle with the language and taste of the food.

Anyhow - why bother about these obscure accounts of the child marriages of a thousand years ago when these are still being excused right now by many cultures' ideologies ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage "
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/baroness-amos-meeting-was-my-worst-ever-says-arkush-1.442122

In an appearance on the BBC’s Sunday Politics programme in March, Baroness Amos said she had not adopted the IHRA definition after consulting her own Centre for Jewish Studies department.

Mr Arkush told deputies: “I repeatedly said to Lady Amos: ‘Show me what you thought was wrong with the IHRA definition of antisemitism’. She just couldn’t. She just said it was ‘contentious’.”

I am not so sure that somebody ought to start propogating anti-Arkushism but it would be offensive to damn everybody else who shared that surname - perhaps we m8ght offer them counselling ... a change of surname perhaps and something like a witness protection programme ... Meanwhile I think that Arkush ought to be charged with anti-Goyism ...

There is a Jew out there who makes me blush_Yet The Jewish Chronicle has now a crush_Upon every word that he is uttering_Leaving me snarling and always muttering -_" Pro-semitism is never anti-other - Arkush ! "

There is a Jew out there who makes me blush_
Yet The Jewish Chronicle now has a crush_
Upon every word that he is uttering_
Leaving me snarling and always muttering -_
" Pro-semitism is never anti-other - Arkush ! "

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !

----------------------------------

POST SCRIPT - IN CASE JONATHAN ARKUSH READS ME : THIS IS WHY ANTI-SEMITISM SHOULD NOT BE TRIVIALISED

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4995809,00.html

Graziano and Dalal in court

2 US men get 35 years for terrorizing New Jersey Jewish communities

Between 2011 and 2012, Aakash Dalal and Anthony Graziano from Lodi, NJ, tried to burn down two synagogues in the cities of Paramus and Rutherford, threw Molotov cocktails into the home of a rabbi in Rutherford, and spray-painted anti-Semitic graffiti at synagogues in the cities of Maywood and Hackensack. Both men were 19 at the time the crimes were committed. ... "They saw the world with the same set of eyes. They saw Jewish people not as people but as subhuman and like reptiles," he added. ... ... ... Graziano threw a Molotov cocktail into the Congregation Beth El temple in Rutherford on January 11, 2012, while Rabbi Nosson Schuman, his wife and five children slept in the apartment upstairs. The family members suffered light burns.

ETC
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From: David B Lawrence
Sent: 16 August 2017 02:02
To: XXXX
Subject: Fw: Blocking of websites by Cardiff library services

Dear XXXX

I hope that you do not mind my writing an email over yours concerning the censorship still in place on " Y Repwblic " - ?

It will give you an insight as well into how I argue and think about Republicanism ( and why I am screwed up about Israel.)

Regards,

David B. Lawrence,

From: David B Lawrence
Sent: 16 August 2017 01:58
To: YYYY
Subject: Fw: Blocking of websites by Cardiff library services

Dear YYYY,

Please pass this to Cllr YYYY who ought to remember my thirty four year long conflict with Cardiff City County Council.

XXXX has been forwarding me emails about this subject and I believe that you have now unblocked XXXX.com after I wrote to them ( as a subscriber and signatory ) to warn them that what had happened to two pages of our website had happened to theirs. XXXX is a perfectly straight forward news dissemination website from accredited conventional news sources with links to various blogs and websites which promote what I regard to be the same values which I hold as somebody who has been thirty three years in Cardiff's Quaker Meeting and is also an occasional attender at Cardiff Reform Synagogue.

But I not only espouse marginal religious groups but political groups as well having been involved in Cooperativist, Environmental and Pacifist causes but all pursued in the most conventional way until fifteen years ago when I began to synthesise my political ethicalities out of my religious moralities and became an advocate of a very robust - and very popular - form of Republicanism. Ten years ago we created " Y Repwblic " which in terms of file size has become the biggest Republican website not only in Wales but in Europe with an larger audience across the world - but very little in Wales : an Internationalist and Pacifist " White " politics.

Now " Ersatz Israel " as I coined the term really winds me up and I avoided the matter for decades but I could hardly avoid it as an example hotly debated in Republican circles because of its suspension of its own constitution fifty years ago, its abuses of human rights - not only of Palestinians but also of its own supposed citizens - and the trough of money pushed in front of The Houses of Parliament etc etc ... But it turned out that what I wanted to write about is the way in which identity politics is used by Zionists - Jewish and Christian - to manipulate others to support Eretz Israel which displays the symbols and uses the religious heritage of Judaism whilst violating that faith's basic moral and ethical tenets. Republicanism describes how religion is used for evil purposes.

There is a centuries long debate about this " Hierocracy " in " White " Republicanism which advocates the establishment of a " Civil Religion " which interests and excites me as the basis of propagating a tolerant and pluralistic society : there is a long history of this in Wales where the purpose of The Gorsedd of The Bards has now been long forgotten and Iolo Morgannwg is just a comic figure from the past not a cunning propagandist who dressed up Republicanism as Druidism. I love his wit and my argument when confronted by those who think that Republicans advocate violence is to pose them the question " What is more likely to persuade somebody of my political arguments : to have a line in punching faces or the punchline of joke ? Bruising faces or smiling faces ? "

Hence hundreds of thousands read " Y Repwblic " because it is full of humour - and some appalling comic doggerel : my work has been read out on BBC Radio 4 so it ought to be acceptable to Cardiff City County Council - but ... I also throw in some educational stuff and shaggy dragon stories and one of these was designed to explain the difference between the clipped pronunciation of the racial slur " Yid " which imitates in a derogatory way the entirely correct word " Yid " ... If you used the Welsh vowels that could be written " Yid " and " Yud " ... but the trouble is that your censoring engine thinks that merely using the word " Yid " implies racism - and it lacks a sense of humour - and it might also be programmed by humourless Zionists ... you think that that is another joke ?

Yiddish and Qedar were the two major languages commonly in use in Jewish communities in Europe in the 19c : Hebrew was a liturgical language which was revived by the Zionists for everyday use in the 20c and the language which you choose depends upon which side of the political fence you fall off ... The Orthodox still insist upon using Yiddish in their everyday lives and reserve Hebrew for its holy purposes - and they deeply oppose Zionism from a right wing stance declaring it to be false secular religion ... and not exactly alongside them but from left wing stance there are the remains of The Bund which is a Jewish Socialist Union who also opposed Zionism as a Capitalist-Imperialist enterprise ... Many on The Left in The USA are rejecting Zionist Hebrew in order to express their political opposition to " Ersatz Israel " through learning Yiddish which has a rich literature : poetry, politics and puns.

Now : I put it to you that if Cardiff City County Council believes in Free Speech why is its censorship engine bias against Yiddish ?

To discriminate against even mentioning the word " Yiddish " is like discriminating against even mentioning the word " Welsh " which is both a respectable thing to be but also in the mouths of some bigots synonymous with somebody who is a " Welch." Or consider " Taffy " - " Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a thief " - yet your censoring engine allows us to use the word " Taff." Not to mention " Paddy " " Frog " " Kraut "- yes these can be used offensively but I never liked the way that the word " nice " is twisted. The trouble with censorship is that it is a retreat from reality : but here is a legitimate basis for censorship for Cardiff City County Council - do it in accordance with the law instead of the personal prejudices of members or officers e.g. it is illegal to provide pornography for minors to view yet Cardiff City County Council's censoring engine is not preventing this from happening.

I do not allow it on our website because our rule is to ban images of violence, pornography and sporting fixtures in order to discourage minors viewing it : adults resort to " Y Repwblic " to read rambling rants and as adults they can censor it with a click.

Do you really think that it is appropriate that adults qualified to vote should not be qualified to read the opinions of other adults ?

I know that there are those who think that Republicanism is a creed of political violence - and refuse to read anything about it ...

... Censoring the political opinions of others whom you merely imagine that you disagree with IS the creed of political violence ...

From the point of view of Republicanism there is no such thing as " political violence " because if you can get your own way by using force then why would you ever bother with putting an argument to those you wish to persuade - when you can use force ?

Yes : occasionally Republicans do discuss violence and we associate it with Monocracy where control of The State has passed into the hands of a few people who wilfully refuse to listen to advice and so rule incompetently and use violence against those who protest against them. Republicans observe that such Monocracies ( not to be confused with The Royal Family - you can have a republic with a king : a " crowned republic " ) when overthrown by violence are merely replaced by other Monocracies : the path of revolution is to turn back " The Wheel of The World " through Aristocracy, Democracy and Hierocracy to Nomocracy where the power over the state is in The Law - " Nomocracy " is " The Rule of Law " - which is why The Republicans in Wales are law-abiding.

So : could Cardiff City County Council now take " Y Repwblic " off its censorship list - but continue to disapprove of us ( of course.)

Yours Sincerely,

David B. Lawrence,

From: XXXX
Sent: 15 August 2017 12:25
To: YYYY
Subject: Fwd: Blocking of websites by Cardiff library services

For information. A reasonable reply from Cardiff library services - and no attempt to justify the unjustifiable.

I see no point in pursuing this particular incident further. But let me know if you think I'm wrong.

Best wishes

XXXX


---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: YYYY
Date: 15 August 2017 at 10:04
Subject: RE: Blocking of websites by Cardiff library services
To:

Dear YYYY

Please find attached a letter of response from Cllr YYYY

Regards,

YYYY

From: XXXX
Sent: 30 July 2017 13:03
To: YYYY
Subject: Re: Blocking of websites by Cardiff library services

For the attention of Cllr YYYY

Dear Cllr YYYY

I am grateful for your letter of 12 July and for its apology for any inconvenience we or our members may have been caused.

I have one question I would like an answer to: was the block lifted as a result of a complaint by a member of the public or as part of a routine review? If the former, which I suspect as I know that the matter was drawn to the library’s attention, it is all well and good but does raise the question as to whether the block would still be in place but for this complaint.

I am also deeply disturbed by the fact that the block was implemented automatically based on key word analysis with no member of the library staff apparently having reviewed the computer “advice” before the block was implemented. I’m quite sure this must be in breach of any sensible protocol you would wish to operate under.

Our right to free speech is protected under the Human Rights Act and we would have challenged any infringement of that right vigorously had it been made on the basis of an employee’s assessment. We are a committed antiracist organisation and even for your system to hint that we are "intolerant" is deeply damaging to us. To find that it happened because of an automated system, without any rigorous assessment to confirm this absurd opinion is even more disturbing.

I’d be grateful for assurances that your procedures have been changed to ensure such an event cannot occur again – to our or any other website. If – and acknowledging there can be occasions when it is necessary to block websites - it is crucial that the procedures and the criteria are transparent and subject to notification to those affected and to appeal by them.

Yours sincerely

XXXX

On 14 July 2017 at 15:19, YYYY wrote:

Dear XXXX

Please find attached a letter of response from YYYY

Regards,

YYYY

Mae’r Cyngor yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg a byddwn yn sicrhau ein bod yn cyfathrebu â chi yn eich dewis iaith boed yn Gymraeg, yn Saesneg neu’n ddwyieithog dim ond i chi roi gwybod i ni pa un sydd well gennych. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn creu unrhyw oedi.

The Council welcomes correspondence in English and Welsh and we will ensure that we communicate with you in the language of your choice, whether that’s English, Welsh or bilingual as long as you let us know which you prefer. Corresponding in Welsh will not lead to any delay.

From: XXXX

Date: Wednesday, 07 Jun 2017, 18:04

To: YYYY

Subject: Blocking of websites by Cardiff library services


*** Warning: This email contains a Microsoft Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint) or Adobe PDF attachment. Although this email has been scanned for threats, please think before opening attachments from unrecognised senders.

Rhybudd: Mae'r e-bost hwn yn cynnwys atodiad Microsoft Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint) neu PDF Adobe. Er bod yr e-bost hwn wedi'i sganio ar gyfer unrhyw fygythiadau, meddyliwch cyn agor atodiadau gan anfonwyr nad ydych yn eu hadnabod. ***


Councillor YYYY

Cabinet Member for YYYY

City of Cardiff Council

Dear Cllr YYYY

I write to you in your capacity as Cabinet Member for YYYY.

A member of our organisation, XXXX, in Cardiff has sent us the attached screenshot, prima facie evidence that our website, http.XXXX.com has been blocked by your library services on alleged grounds of "intolerance".

We have been in existence since [ WELL ESTABLISHED ], a Jewish organisation with close on two thousand signatories. We work in support of [ HUMAN RIGHTS ], as our name suggests, and are utterly opposed to all forms of racism and intolerance, including of course, antisemitism.

We are shocked by the fact that access to our site has been blocked and regard it as an infringement of the right to freedom of speech, a right protected under Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

Could you please provide us with an explanation of your library service's action and assure us that free access to our website will be restored with immediate effect.

With many thanks

Yours sincerely

XXXX

Spokesperson, XXXX

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ YOU WILL NOTICE THAT I HAVE NOT INCLUDED THE COUNCIL'S REPLIES DUE TO THIS RESTRICTION : THIS ONE WAS A FAIRLY BLAND PRO-FORMA ARCHITYPAL EVASION - BUT THE GOOD NEWS IN IT WAS THAT CARDIFF CITY COUNTY COUNCIL WILL BE REVIEWING THE NOTICE AFFIXED TO BLOCKED WEBSITES ... BUT STILL CARRY ON BLOCKING THEM ? ... I CHOSE TO PUBLISH THE SPOKESPERSON'S SIDE OF THIS CORRESPONDENCE BECAUSE IT DEMONSTRATES THE INDIGNATION IN AN ENGLISH LIBERAL MIND UPON ENCOUNTERING WHAT IS NORMAL IN WALES : FOR DECADES I HAVE CHAFED AT THE ANTI-POLITICAL CULTURE OF THE LABOUR PARTY IN WALES WHERE THEIR INDIGNATION IS AT ANYONE ASKING ANY QUESTIONS.]

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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2636

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The above is an example of political correctness being programmed into the censorship of the internet with a Jewish website being branded " anti-semitic " because it criticises Israel : this is what the Zionists - Jewish and Christian - are conniving at ... I came across an example of it from the mouth of Jonathan Sachs last night when in a discussion with Richard Dawkins he claimed that to criticise " The God of The Old Testament " as vindictive, capricious, cruel etc is " anti-semitic " - well, hell : more to the point why did this particular God choose this particular people and having tantalised us with all sorts of promises in exchange for our loyalty then go about abusing us for millenia upon millenia - why can't he go and choose some other people for this ... for a while ... The fact is that the whole basis of good religion is a candid exchange of opinions in order to benefit your neighbours with your understanding e.g. " Your Solly has been sticking his putz through a knot hole in the fence and exposing himself to our Sarah ! " - " Oooh ! How dare you ! That's anti-semitic that is ! " - " Trust the Cohens to make such vile allegations - may G#d forgive you : we will not ! " - " But - >SIGH< - ??? "

Believe it or not I take an interest in the theory of humour and that began when reading the notes to a copy of Ben Jonson's " The Alchemist " which explained his theory that good humour presents the audience with a moral dilemma which creates tension and the joke relies upon relieving this with an unexpected twist. Ben Jonson was basing this upon debates about what was to be admitted as humour for Christians and there were similar debates in Judaism and Islam and probably other religions too : Hierocrats do not liked to be mocked and so they pass nit-picking laws to maintain the " respect " of their congregations i.e. to threaten them if a single one of them dare snigger. Islamic humour is particularly interesting because Mohammed unlike Jesus and Moses etc actually had a good sense of humour and is described as enjoying a clever joke and laughing his head off raucously : many modern imams have denied this and insisted that Mohammed would never do such an undignified thing as slyly snigger ... but of course - like priests and rabbis - imams are pretending to an authority which belongs solely to G#d not to them : they are interpreters of scripture - according to their own understandings which inevitably means according to their own interests ...

... I HAVE BEEN PLAYING WITH A NEW TWIST ON AN OLD JOKE ... COULD THIS BE " ANTI-SEMITIC ? " ...

The Official Jewish Joke Book ( Orthodox )

I have been feeling a bit out of place in The Reform Synagogue : albeit I am the best mumbler that they have ... I struggle through the Hebrew passages and then when the service turns to the English passages I struggle to find the page that we are now on and I would be totally lost if it were not for ( X ) reaching over and turning the book the right way up for me ... I hang around on the edge of things and nervously - compulsively - crack my obscure off-the-cuff-quick-fire jokes ... and nobody laughs ... I wondered whether it might just be that this congregation is mostly Ashkenazim whereas my ancestry is I suspect in the Qaraim - freethinkers, boil-it-down-to-the-basics, stick-to-The-Torah and let's-have-none-of-this-Talmudic-nonsense - so I wondered whether I might feel a little bit more at home in The Orthodox Synagogue ... Full of trepidation I knocked on their door and I found a warm and friendly welcome and was shown a place to sit - stand - sit - sit !!! - and I found the service both familiar and different and in one respect very unusual ...

... Every so often - in the middle of the service - the portion - the Schema even - either the rabbi or the cantor or even a member of the congregation would for example call out " Moses - 22 ! " or " Jereboam - 13 ! " or " Micah - 34 ! " and everybody there just fell about laughing - except me ... After their rather happy service I was intrigued and after several glasses afterwards I was feeling quite kiddish-ish-ish and approached The Rabbi and asked him for an explanation ... " Well we all know those jokes : they have been around for centuries and were finally numbered and compiled into The Official Jewish Joke Book ( Orthodox ) by a vast team of scholars who had worked for over a hundred years testing each joke to ensure its compliance with The Talmud and The Torah and The British Board of Jewish Sheriffs ... To tell such jokes in the middle of the service would be to detract from its dignity - but our service is rather long so we like to throw in a few of the good old numbers ... er ... would you like to borrow a copy ? ... It is all in bilingual - Hebrew and Welsh." ... At this offer I felt a real sense of being accepted and gratefully took it home with me to study authentic - and approved ! - Jewish humour ...

... The following Friday night I camped outside in order to be the first person into The Orthodox Synagogue : The Rabbi was most surprised - having only just unlocked the door ... I enthusiastically volunteered to do all of the work that I could see needed doing : vacuuming the floors, walls and ceilings - I had already bought some bright chintz curtains to cheer up The Ark - and I laid out the scrolls and re-rolled them because somebody had left them all more or less half un-rolled ... Then came the service and the mumbles could be heard in Swansea and with mounting excitement I finally took my first - and last - opportunity to tell an authentic - and approved - Jewish joke - " Gideon - 93 ! " ... Nobody laughed ... not even a snigger ... or a smile ... The service continued - and there were no more jokes ... and I felt a terrible embarrassment as I approached The Rabbi afterwards to ask him whether my timing had been wrong - perhaps my intonation ? - my accent ? ... " No - no ... no ... One thing though - what makes you think that you are ... Jewish ? "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was re-reading this tonight -

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/writingfromtheedge/2017/08/equality-thats-cant-work/

“It’s About Equality, and That’s Why I Can’t Work With You on This.”

AUGUST 5, 2017 BY ROBERT A. H. COHEN

[ ABOUT A QUARTER OF THE WAY THROUGH THIS BRISK SHORT ESSAY ]

" ... If you count incidents of antisemitism but refuse to acknowledge that Israel’s behaviour and our Jewish community insistence that Israel is central to Jewish identity are contributing factors to that antisemitism, then I can’t work with you.

Mostly because you’re debasing the meaning of antisemitism and reducing all criticism of Israel to mindless hatred.

If you think it’s okay to hang out with Christian Zionists who love the State of Israel but have a theological problem with Judaism, then I can’t work with you.

Mostly because you think Jewish nationalism is more important than Judaism itself. ... "

" ... A movement based on equal rights will be shunned, attacked, and yes, branded as antisemitic.

But the principle of equal rights is the place to begin the journey and from which to build the movement.

Equal rights recognises that that this is not about terrorism, it’s not about security, it’s not about competing nationalisms, it’s not about antisemitism.

Equal rights recognises there has been a great injustice that must be acknowledged in order to move on.

Equal rights recognises that there is no pre-Zionist Palestine to return to. Both people are now permanently part of the future landscape. ... "

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On 18 Aug 2017, at 00:04, David B Lawrence wrote:

Dear Friends of The ( Funnier ) People,

I wrote the following for a purpose as an improvisation over that old prison joke : does it work for you ?

The purpose is to challenge the reader to decide whether the joke is likely to be damned by faint hearts as " anti-semitic " -

- I am criticising the debasement of the term.

David B. Lawrence,

From:
Sent: 18 August 2017 00:27
To: David B Lawrence
Subject: Re: The Official Jewish Joke Book ( Orthodox )

Don't get it

Sent from my iPhone

From: David B Lawrence
Sent: 18 August 2017 00:51
To:
Subject: Re: The Official Jewish Joke Book ( Orthodox )

The original punchline involves the novice being told that nobody laughed because of the way that he told the joke ( " 33 " )

In this version nobody laughs because they are angry with the novice - even though he tells the joke perfectly.

David B. Lawrence,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I SUDDENLY WORRIED AS TO WHETHER THERE REALLY IS A " MICAH - 34 ! "

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16189

Michah - Micah - Chapter 3

1- And I said: Hearken now, you heads of Jacob and officers of the house of Israel! Is it not incumbent upon you to know the judgment ?

5 - So said the Lord concerning the prophets who mislead my people, who bite with their teeth and herald peace, but concerning whomever does not give into their mouth, they prepare war.

9 - Hearken now to this, you heads of the house of Jacob and you rulers of the house of Israel, who condemn justice and pervert all that is straight.

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16190/jewish/Chapter-4.htm

Michah - Micah - Chapter 4

3 - And he shall judge between many peoples and reprove mighty nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nations shall not lift the sword against nation; neither shall they learn war anymore.

6 - On that day, says the Lord: I will heal the limping one, and the lost one I will gather, and those whom I harmed.

12 - But they did not know the thoughts of the Lord; neither did they understand His counsel, for He gathered them as sheaves to a threshing floor.

----------------------------------------------

Dear XXX I did not think that the joke that I constructed for a purpose last night really worked but this proem seems to work - well - for me !

" KNOCK ! KNOCK ! KNOCK ! " - " Who is there ? "_" I am The Lady Thy Goddess - BEWARE ! "_" Oh - C'm'offit Almighty and Eternal_You know that I know that we are not external_We are both imagined and - hey ! - I LIKE THE WAY THAT YOU'VE DONE YOUR HAIR ... "

Dear XXX I did not think that the joke that I constructed for a purpose last night really worked but this proem seems to work - well - for me !

" KNOCK ! KNOCK ! KNOCK ! " - " Who is there ? "_
" I am The Lady Thy Goddess - BEWARE ! "_
" Oh - C'm'offit Almighty and Eternal_
You know that I know that we are not external_
We are both imagined and - hey ! - I LIKE THE WAY THAT YOU'VE DONE YOUR HAIR ... "

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !

Ariadni has a policy of sending three for every one of mine as a " punishment " - but I like hers !

Who is imagined?
The Goddess or You?
Or are both imagined
In Maya's great stew?
And who does the imagining?
If nothing is real?
And is all permitted
In this illusory deal?

From the Unutterable Principle
Chronos and Anangki arise
Producing the earth,
The stars and the skies
Time and Inevitability
Those illusory vibes
Who are the Laws of Physics
That Science describes
But whatever is discovered
What theories we try
We might know the mysteries
But will never know why

So let us be silent
And realise that we
Who think we know much
Have brains like a pea
And only when we realise this
Can we experience a state of bliss
Admit our ignorance
And seek to know
What little we can
Before we go
To drink from the Well
Of Lethe
And forget it all
But bequeath
Our ignorance to the next generation
That they may live in stupification

What place have dreams
Within the dream?
What place has life
Within the scheme?
What place have I
Within the world?
Will my purpose be unfurled?

To be or not to be
Is the question, I hear
Do people fear death?
Or is it life that they fear?
Is that undiscovered country
From which none may return
The cause of anxiety?
Or a peaceful sojourn?

We destroy our health
To accumulate wealth
Then spend our wealth
To regain our health
We live in fear of death
But when we take our final breath
We realise we haven't lived
And instead of seeing life as a gift
We've wasted time and moaned and groaned
Not realising that this life is loaned
And when we have to give it back
We realise how we've been slack

Ariadni

The author asserts her moral right and her copyright.

I provoked her some more apparently - after her second one -

Excellent - 200/10 ! =
My parents imagined me & told me who I am_But I began to copy them whilst I was in my pram_I learned that they were lying and so I began not buying_Their version of reality - which I found really trying -_And in my subverting that I came to never give a damn = HOW ARE YOU TODAY ?


My parents imagined me & told me who I am_
But I began to copy them whilst I was in my pram_
I learned that they were lying and so I began not buying_
Their version of reality - which I found really trying -_
And in my subverting that I came to never give a damn.

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !

I have copied this pwnco over to the bottom of = http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=5737#5737 = do you want me to adjust that ? = liked yours a lot !
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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2636

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I trust that she is going to say OK to adding this response to the " KNOCK ! KNOCK ! KNOCK ! " joke above -

I like the goddess poem! And here's a new verse for 'Terracotta Palace' :

[ And it turned out that " Terracotta Palace " is a song so " doormouse " wants to exercise copyright so I removed the rest. ]
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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2636

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah well - this thread is already out of control : Gerry Lewis died and this brings to mind his most talked about and least seen film - about a German clown arrested for mocking Hitler who ended up leading little children into a gas chamber presumably to distract them with humour until the very last minute and thus provide them with some meagre comfort in the face of that horror. The religious part of this presumably is Judaism or just common morality - tbe political part was / is / will continue to be censorship of the film by the man who wrote it, acted in it, filmed it and funded it and yet never released it for ethical as well as comical reasons ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vGNJS3icnHA - The Day The Clown Cried - Movie Talk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ewrPTl5jHK8 - Howard Stern - Harry Shearer & The Day The Clown Cried

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-BYt8KiwA -
Jerry Lewis answers THE DAY THE CLOWN CRIED question


... If only The Democrats in Wales and Westminster were so willing to confess their mistakes ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2CdfppsqKQ - CLOWN: teaser for unfinished Jerry Lewis documentary

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v6uySuacWXg - Stills from Jerry Lewis’s unreleased Holocaust film seen for the first time
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