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Red versus White Poppies ( & other colours )

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:25 pm    Post subject: Red versus White Poppies ( & other colours ) Reply with quote

I was at a check-out this afternoon - Remembrance Sunday 8th November 2015 - when I was asked by the shop assistant as to why I was wearing The White Poppy ... I briefly hashed an explanation as to this being a symbol of remembrance for the civilian victims of war as opposed to military perpetrators of wars ... furthermore I pointed out that the Religious Society of Friends ( Quakers ) generally make available a supply of them each year in Cardiff but it is a long time since we have stood on street corners handing them out : I had met somebody earlier who had crocheted her own because she did not know where to get one ... but how did they originate and where can you purchase one - and does anyone really care any more ? ... Well there are some people who definitely care, who think that The White Poppy is some kind of insult - and being military minded people they naturally attack both the people who wear them and The White Poppy itself when they see it. On the other side of things there are those who see the present conduct of Remembrance Sunday and the use of The Red Poppy as a despicable usurpation of these things by the supporters of The United Kingdom for the purpose of promoting the militarisation of our society by celebrating war - and this is not what The Red Poppy was about : but what is the truth about the origins and subsequent use The Red and The White Poppies - and the other colours ?


Actually let's start with Plaid Cymru's recent adoption of The Welsh ( Yellow ) Poppy in 2006 ... er ... well, it is Welsh see - and the new logo has the same yellow and green colours as The Welsh Daffodil, which is what everybody thinks their logo is anyway - only a badly drawn one ... " ... Meconopsis cambrica lives in damp, shady places on rocky ground. In its most western locations, it is increasingly found on more open ground with less cover. It is especially well adapted to colonising gaps and crevices in rocks and stones. This habit has enabled it to colonise the urban environment, growing between paving slabs and at the edges of walls. ... " ... See ? ... Just like Plaid Cymru ... of course historically poppies also symbolise being drugged into a dream-like state ...

... There has also been The Purple Poppy - now replaced by The Purple Paw - which was issued by Animal Aid UK which is the easiest one to explain : animals such as mules were the victims of war - even when they survived ... an adoptive grandfather of mine was a teenage muleteer at Pascendale and they used to stab the mules through the throat because as the barrages began the mules would panic each other with their braying and break sideways into the mud and drown themselves, the muleteers and - of course - the shells they were carrying were lost or worse ...

... let us ... no ... for the benefit of our foreign readership - let us see if we can find some of the recent incidents where the supporters of The United Kingdom have demonstrated that they do not believe in the civilisation which they claim to have defended by destroying civilisations everywhere else ... here is a newspaper favoured by Conservative Democrats -


Damian Thompson is Editor of Telegraph Blogs and a columnist for the Daily Telegraph.

At the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, I am sure the thoughts of all Telegraph readers will be with those British and Commonwealth Service men and women who fell in the defence of our liberty. ... But spare a thought, too, for the men and women of the White Poppy appeal. And don't make it a kind thought. This wretched outfit "believes that there are better ways of solving conflicts than killing strangers". That is how they describe the sacrifice of British and Allied lives in the inescapable war against Nazi Germany and the Axis powers. ... People who wear white poppies – who include the sanctimonious prats of the "Christian" think tank Ekklesia – not only dishonour our war dead: they also assert their supposed moral superiority over the 40 million Britons who wear British Legion red poppies. ... What should you do if you see a white poppy wearer today? At the very least – if I may borrow a phrase from my colleague Alan Cochrane – you should give them a cheery wave not involving the use of all your fingers.


Felicity A Morse - 24/10/2012

Poppy Appeal : Has It Become Political To Wear The Red Symbol Of Remembrance ?

" As the British Legion launches its poppy appeal it seems wearing the little red flower has lost none of its potency. ... Political, patriotic, a sign of principle or a duty, it seems wearing the symbol signifies much more than remembrance in many minds. ... Feeling protective of the poppy is not unusual, but as a symbol of patriotism it is certainly highly charged. In past years the flower has being hijacked by both far-right and extremist groups to promote exclusion and exploit community tensions. ... Young poppy sellers in Bradford have been sent out with chaperones this year after three girl cadets, two of them Asian, were spat at and abused whilst selling the charity flower in 2011. ... The assault followed a ban on militant group Muslims Against Crusades by the home secretary after the group burned poppies at an anti-Armistice Day protest. ... There's been a push in recent years to reclaim the poppy, cleansing it of the political and social meanings it has developed insome quarters. Prince William even waded into last year's poppy row after Fifa banned footballers from wearing the 'political symbol'. ... After the Duke described it as a "symbol of remembrance, which has no political, religious or commercial connotations", the ban was lifted." ... [ THERE ARE SOME VIDEOS ? ] ... For some people the purchase of a red poppy simply glorifies the ugly act of war. Instead they opt for the white poppy, designed to mark the suffering of those who went to war while stressing the importance of peace."

03 November 2015 - http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/52470/

Royal British Legion and pacifists reach deal over white poppies

THE ROYAL British Legion and a pacifist group have struck a deal over the controversial laying of white poppies at Aberystwyth’s war memorial on Remembrance Sunday. ... Red and white poppy wreaths will be laid at the same time this year after an agreement was reached at a meeting held between the Legion and the Aberystwyth Peace and Justice Network. ... In past years there has been friction over the network’s decision to lay a white poppy wreath on Remembrance Sunday. ... Some British Legion representatives claimed it showed a lack of respect to those from the armed forces who lost their lives. ...And last year the white poppy wreath was found dumped in a nearby bin by persons unknown. ... The conciliatory meeting was arranged by Aberystwyth Town Council and was chaired by Cllr Alun Wiliams. ... He said: “The meeting was extremely amicable and everyone quickly came to an understanding. The town council has a duty to represent everyone in the community in so far as that is possible.

Pictured: Cllr Endaf Edwards at the laying of the white poppy wreath last year
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is actually a lot of stuff that I have skimmed over about the subject - this was a popular art installation last year on the hundredth anniversary of the outbreak of World War One ...


" Blood Swept Lands and Seas of Red " was a work of installation art placed in the moat of the Tower of London, England, between July and November 2014, commemorating the centenary of the outbreak of World War I. It consisted of 888,246 ceramic red poppies, each intended to represent one British or Colonial serviceman killed in the War. The artist was Paul Cummins, with setting by stage designer Tom Piper.[2] The work's title was taken from the first line of a poem by an unknown World War I soldier. ...


" Moina Michael (August 15, 1869-May 10, 1944) was an American professor and humanitarian who conceived the idea of using poppies as a symbol of remembrance for those who served in World War I. ... Inspired by the Canadian John McCrae battlefront-theme poem In Flanders Fields, she published a poem in response called " We Shall Keep the Faith." In tribute to the opening lines of McCrae's poem -- "In Flanders fields the poppies blow / Between the crosses row on row," -- Michael vowed to always wear a red poppy as a symbol of remembrance for those who served in the war. ... After the war was over, Michael returned to the University of Georgia and taught a class of disabled servicemen. Realizing the need to provide financial and occupational support for these servicemen, she pursued the idea of selling silk poppies as a means of raising funds to assist disabled veterans. In 1921, her efforts resulted in the poppy being adopted as a symbol of remembrance for war veterans by the American Legion Auxiliary.


Oh! you who sleep in Flanders Fields,
Sleep sweet - to rise anew!
We caught the torch you threw
And holding high, we keep the Faith
With All who died.

We cherish, too, the poppy red
That grows on fields where valor led;
It seems to signal to the skies
That blood of heroes never dies,
But lends a lustre to the red
Of the flower that blooms above the dead
In Flanders Fields.

And now the Torch and Poppy Red
We wear in honor of our dead.
Fear not that ye have died for naught;
We'll teach the lesson that ye wrought
In Flanders Fields.


The remembrance poppy (a Papaver rhoeas) has been used since 1921 to commemorate military personnel who have died in war. Inspired by the World War I poem "In Flanders Fields", and promoted by Moina Michael, they were first adopted by the American Legion to commemorate American soldiers killed in that war (1914–1918). They were then adopted by military veterans' groups in parts of the former British Empire: the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. ... [ INTERESTING TO NOTE THEN THAT THIS PUTS PAID TO THE ARGUMENT THAT WEARING A RED POPPY IS " PATRIOTIC."] ... The remembrance poppy is especially prominent in the UK. In the weeks leading up to Remembrance Sunday, they are distributed by The Royal British Legion in return for donations to their "Poppy Appeal", which supports all current and former British military personnel. During this time, all public figures and people appearing on television are expected to wear them, and those who do not have been criticized. Some have berated this as "poppy fascism" and argued that the Appeal is being used to justify and glorify current wars. In Northern Ireland the poppy is especially controversial and politicized; most Irish nationalists and Irish Catholics refuse to wear one, mainly due to actions of the British Army during the Troubles, while Ulster Protestants and Unionists usually wear them. ...

... In 1918, Moina Michael, who had taken leave from her professorship at the University of Georgia to be a volunteer worker for the American YWCA, was inspired by the poem and published a poem of her own called "We Shall Keep the Faith". In tribute to McCrae's poem, she vowed to always wear a red remembrance poppy as a symbol of remembrance for those who fought and helped in the war. At a November 1918 YWCA Overseas War Secretaries' conference, she appeared with a silk poppy pinned to her coat and distributed 25 more to those attending. She then campaigned to have the poppy adopted as a national symbol of remembrance. At a conference in 1920, the National American Legion adopted it as their official symbol of remembrance. At this conference, French-woman Anna E. Guérin was inspired to introduce the artificial poppies commonly used today. In 1921 she sent her poppy sellers to London, where they were adopted by Field Marshal Douglas Haig, a founder of the Royal British Legion. It was also adopted by veterans' groups in Canada, Australia and New Zealand. James Fox notes that all of the countries who adopted the remembrance poppy were the "victors" of World War I. ...


... In the United Kingdom, remembrance poppies are sold by The Royal British Legion ( RBL.) This is a charity providing financial, social, political and emotional support to those who have served or who are currently serving in the British Armed Forces, and their dependents. They are sold on the streets by volunteers in the weeks before Remembrance Day. The remembrance poppy is the trademark of The Royal British Legion. The RBL state, "The red poppy is our registered mark and its only lawful use is to raise funds for the Poppy Appeal"; its yearly fundraising drive in the weeks before Remembrance Day. The RBL says these poppies are "worn to commemorate the sacrifices of our Armed Forces and to show support to those still serving today". Other poppy merchandise is sold throughout the year as part of the ongoing fundraising. ...The yearly selling of poppies is a major source of income for the RBL in the UK. The poppy has no fixed price; it is sold for a donation or the price may be suggested by the seller. The black plastic center of the poppy was marked "Haig Fund" until 1994 but is now marked "Poppy Appeal". A team of about 50 people—most of them disabled former British military personnel—work all year round to make millions of poppies at the Poppy Factory in Richmond. Scottish poppies are made in the Lady Haig's Poppy Factory in Edinburgh. ...

... Celebrities have begun wearing expensive crystal-clad poppy brooches, or 'bling poppies', which are sold by the RBL. In 2011 it was revealed that Kleshna, one of two businesses selling its own poppies on the RBL website, gives only 10% of its sales to charity. Kleshna sells crystal-clad poppy jewellery which has been worn by celebrities on television. There are thousands of poppy sellers on the streets and numerous fundraising events; such as concerts, fairs, marathons and competitions. ... In 1997 and again in 2000 the Royal British Legion registered the Poppy under Intellectual Property Rights (1997 Case EU000557058)[31] and Trade Mark (2000 Trade Mark 2239583)


... In recent years, there has been growing controversy over the Poppy Appeal. Some—including British Army veterans—have argued that the Poppy Appeal has become excessive and garish, that it is being used to marshal support behind British military campaigns, and that poppy wearing has become compulsory for public figures. ... Channel 4 newsreader Jon Snow described it as "poppy fascism" ... Journalist Robert Fisk complained that the poppy has become a seasonal "fashion accessory" and that people were "ostentatiously wearing a poppy for social or work-related reasons, to look patriotic when it suited them" ... Controversially, some far-right groups have used the poppy as a symbol of militant British nationalism, while some Muslims have begun to reject it as a symbol of Western imperialism. ... [ A THOUGHT THERE FOR REPUBLICANS IN WALES ? ] ... Irish nationalist groups, and victims' groups, have urged the BBC to end its policy that all presenters must wear poppies. They argue that it breaches impartiality and point out that political symbols are banned in workplaces in Northern Ireland. ... In the Irish Independent, it was claimed that "substantial amounts" of money raised from selling poppies are used "to build monuments to insane or inane generals or build old boys' clubs for the war elite" ... [ THERE ARE LOTS OF SUCH STORIES ON THIS PAGE - IT IS WELL WORTH READING ] ...

[ SO ... THE ALTERNATIVE ... ? ... ]

... Some people choose to wear white poppies as a pacifist alternative to the red poppy. The white poppy and white poppy wreaths were introduced by Britain's Co-operative Women's Guild in 1933. Today, white poppies are sold by Peace Pledge Union or may be home-made. ... In 2010 a group of British Army veterans issued an open letter complaining that the Poppy Appeal had become excessive and garish, that it was being used to marshal support behind British military campaigns, and that people were being pressured into wearing poppies. In 2014, the group protested by holding an alternative remembrance service: they walked to The Cenotaph under the banner "Never Again" with a wreath of white poppies to acknowledge civilians killed in war. Their tops bore the message "War is Organised Murder", a quote from Harry Patch, the last survivor of World War I. ...


The Huffington Post UK - Kathryn Snowdon - 08/11/2015 - [ + VIDEO]

Veteran Harry Leslie Smith Says The 'Politicised' Red Poppy Is Used To 'Sell' The Government's War On Terror

Once a symbol of remembrance and respect, the red poppy is now being used as a political tool by the government to “sell” its war on terror, a World War Two veteran has said. ... Harry Leslie Smith, a former RAF serviceman, believes the poppy has been both “politicised and commercialised” and the requirement to wear it has become a “month-long dirge of patriotism”. ... Mr Smith does not wear a red poppy. He announced in 2013 that he would no longer allow his “obligation as a veteran” to be manipulated by governments to promote present-day wars. ... Mr Smith said he does not mind if people choose to wear the poppy, but said that they should consider what it represents. ... The veteran also urged people not to liken the present-day “war on terror” with his generation’s battle against Hitler. ... He said: “I can assure you that the two are not the same. My generation gave our blood sweat and tears to be victorious against a tyrant who wanted to enslave us to a totalitarian state, whereas today we are more than willing to surrender our personal liberties to governments and corporations hoping that if we live in a state under constant surveillance we will not suffer physical harm.” ... He added: “To me that type of trade off is just another form of terror and maybe the most dangerous kind.” ... Speaking about last year’s huge Blood Swept Lands and Seas of Red poppy installation at the Tower of London, Mr Smith said: “Almost immediately after November 11 the Tower, which had been used to mourn our dead, hosted a dinner for the arms merchants of the world which shows not only poor taste but the sheer hypocrisy of the government that commissioned the commemoration. ...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we go again ... er ... uh ? ...


England v Scotland poppy debate: Fifa to evaluate Easter Rising symbol

" ... Fifa is "evaluating" why the Republic of Ireland wore a symbol marking the Easter Rising, as the debate over England and Scotland not being allowed to wear poppies continues. ... Commons' Culture, Media and Sport select committee chair Damian Collins MP wants Fifa to "clarify the issue". ... England and Scotland are not allowed to wear a poppy when they meet at Wembley because of a Fifa rule banning political, religious or commercial messages on shirts, which UK Prime Minister Theresa May called outrageous. ... The Easter Rising was an Irish rebellion against British rule, which lasted from 24 to 29 April 1916 and resulted in 485 deaths. ... The Republic wore the symbol in a friendly against Switzerland on 25 March to mark the centenary of the rising. ... ... Speaking at Prime Minister's Questions, Mrs May said the wearing of poppies was a matter for the English and Scottish football associations to resolve, but there was a "clear message" from the House of Commons that "we want our players to be able to wear those poppies". ... ... The Football Association of Wales has also written to Fifa requesting permission to wear poppies on armbands during their game against Serbia in Cardiff on 12 November. ... ... Rugby Football Union chief executive Ian Ritchie has confirmed the England players will wear poppies on their shirts for the autumn Test against South Africa at Twickenham on 12 November. ... "My personal opinion, and that as chair of the FA, is that of course we should wear poppies," said Clarke. "We are commemorating millions of people who gave their lives in wars over the years. They, and the people who lost relatives, deserve that. That is our plan. " ... "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37834224 - Is the poppy a political symbol ?

" The poppy is worn every November to commemorate members of the armed forces who gave their lives in war, and British sports teams have traditionally joined in by adding a poppy to their kit. ... The Royal British Legion (RBL), organiser of the annual poppy appeal, insists the poppy is not a political statement or "a sign of support for war", but instead a symbol of "remembrance and hope". ... But Lucy Noakes, a social and cultural historian at the University of Brighton, thinks it's not entirely accurate to depict the poppy as apolitical. ... Despite the fact that it was introduced in 1921 for charitable purposes - to raise money that would help World War One veterans with employment and housing - it has "been politicised almost since its inception", she says. ... In the 1930s the Peace Pledge Union, who believe red poppies are associated with "military power and the justification of war" started selling white poppies. The white poppy experienced a resurgence in the 1980s while the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament was at its height, Noakes says. ... But she acknowledges that most of those who wear poppies do not regard it as a political act. Many will see it as a way to remember loved ones, for instance. ... "It's not the same as wearing a badge with an overt political statement," Noakes says. "It's more complicated. It has different meanings to different people." ... "


The politics of poppy day - Lucy Noakes - 25 January 2010


" ... The ways in which societies commemorate and memorialise the dead of wartime have long been marked by controversy, ... ... The small market town of Wootton Basset lies on the route that the corteges accompanying the repatriated bodies of soldiers killed in Afghanistan ... ... when the hearses pass through the town has been marked by a small and simple ceremony: the Church of St Bartholomew tolls its bell, shops close and traffic is stopped as people line the streets in silence and when the cortege reaches the war memorial, members of the British Legion salute. ... However, this simple ceremony has recently become a political minefield. Nick Griffin, the Leader of the far-Right British National Party caused outrage when he joined the ceremony on 10 November 2009 and when Islam 4UK, a branch of the al-Muhajiroun movement, threatened in January 2010 to hold a counter-protest in the town marking the deaths of Afghan civilians in the conflict, the Home Secretary Alan Johnson responded by proscribing their demonstration. ... ... demonstrate the inherently political and problematic nature of ceremonies commemorating and memorialising those who die in war. ... ... even the briefest study of events surrounding the early Remembrance Day ceremonies shows that, far from cohering a war shattered nation, acts of wartime remembrance were the focus for acts of dissent. ...

... The focus of commemorations though remains on the military, with the many civilian victims of warfare marked by their absence. Hundreds died in aerial bombardment during the First World War and thousands in the Second yet, despite the creation of local memorials, there is no recognition of these deaths on Remembrance Day. It is harder to integrate the death of civilians into national acts of war remembrance because it reminds us that, as well as dying, soldiers kill, a fact not lost on the would-be organisers of the Islam 4UK protest in Wootton Bassett. ... In 1933 the Women’s Co-Operative League successfully created and marketed the White Poppy as an alternative to the British Legion’s Red Poppy, designed to commemorate all the dead of war, not just the military, and to demonstrate the wearer’s commitment to work for peace. Money raised from White Poppy sales went to the Peace Pledge Union, the primary pacifist movement of the 1930s. White poppies are still in evidence and remain controversial, acting as a powerful symbolic means of both commemorating all war dead and as a way of expressing opposition to war. ... [ THE WCoL DID NOT INVENT THE WHITE POPPY - I THINK THAT THE " NO MORE WAR " MOVEMENT DID IN ]


" In 1926, a few years after the introduction of the red poppy in the UK, the idea of pacifists making their own poppies was put forward by a member of the No More War Movement (as well as the proposal that the black centre of the British Legion's red poppies should be imprinted with "No More War"). ... "


" ... The founders and other members were jailed for their opposition to conscription. Bertrand Russell took over from Clifford Allen as the chairman of the organisation while Catherine Marshall took over from Fenner Brockway as secretary. ... "


" ... In 1926, a member proposed the creation of a white poppy, in the manner of the British Legion's red poppies, but with the added meaning of a hope for an end to all wars. The group did not pursue the idea, but it was later taken up by the Women's Co-operative Guild. ... "


" in April 1914 they were involved in an International Women's Congress at the Hague which passed a resolution totally opposing war - " This Conference is of opinion that the terrible method of war should never again be used to settle disputes between nations, and urge that a partnership of nations, with peace as its object, should be established and enforced by the people's will."


" The Peace Pledge Union (PPU) ... is open to everyone who can sign the PPU pledge : "I renounce war, and am therefore determined not to support any kind of war. I am also determined to work for the removal of all causes of war." ...

... The PPU emerged from an initiative by Dick Sheppard ... in 1934 ... attracted members across the political spectrum ... in the words of member Derek Savage, "an amorphous mass of ordinary well-meaning but fluffy peace-lovers" ... PPU ... was associated with the Welsh group, Heddwchwyr Cymru, founded by Gwynfor Evans
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After the post above I actually wrote to The Peace Pledge Union hoping to clarify whether their stance includes those who are not Pacifists but Pacificators - I presume that I have written about the difference above already : basically a Pacificator believes that those who are killing must be stopped on the grounds that it is better to take one life rather than to allow many others to be killed by a killer whilst The Pacifists in The World try to reason with them - but this does not admit the Tony Blair principle of pre-emptive warfare ( I utterly despise the use of drones - so much for the much vaunted idea of national sovereignty when The United Kingdom feels free to fly drones into the " sovereign territory " of another " nation state " to blow up children playing in the streets of some poverty stricken village in case they might possibly perhaps grow up to be terrorists ... was this not the Russians' idea ? ... and how many terrorists are they beset with now ? )

" Pacifism " is actually a relatively recent idea which erupted out of the 19c wars between France and Germany in which both in bidding to be the New Roman Empire copied The Romans and introduced conscription for The People in Poverty i.e. The Democrats in France and Germany started treating The Life in The People as being of no account - except as cannon-fodder - and The People in Peril began to most strongly object ... So they tried to make a mutual agreement to refuse to fight each other as World War One began to be obviously approaching.

This was a futile gesture - but it was a pleasing one ... I sent them each a White Poppy ... perhaps I should send one to Carwyn too ?

I stood by the late post box and opened the envelopes and added a scrawled note to remind them that 2016 is the hundredth anniversary of The Conscription Act which both legally established the right to be exempted from killing as a Conscientious Objector but also introduced the tribunals which paid only lip service to the idea and were determined to not allow most to register as COs ... many ended up in jail and some in resolutely resisting uniforms being physically forced upon them were tried and sentenced to death under military law - usually commuted to decades in prison where many were abused, beaten, starved, neglected and died : so much for the allegations of cowardice levelled at the " Conchies." Once this started happening many went into hiding and an ad hoc system of ( not very ) " safe houses " developed so that COs could move to live and work in places where their faces were not known. Those organising the " No Conscription Fellowship " face allegations of treason and some were arrested and so as a consequence women became important organisers and remained so throughout the subsequent history of The Welsh Peace Movement ( which is where you will find Civic - " White " - Republicans.)

I was in a rush when I wrote the letter - another one on an impulse after my encounter with two noble characters in The British Legion - and I tweaked the text above in a wordprocessing program to keep it on one sheet of paper making some typos and crushing the grammar a bit : here is the text but corrected just a bit here and there ... oh - and by the way -

- the single White Poppy in a wreath of Red Poppies was actually invented by my ex-ex-ex-ex ... er - ex-ex-ex ? ... twenty five years or so ago : she waited for her home town to come to a halt with all of the local uniforms lined up in front of their central war memorial and - with the police women standing to attention with their backs to the crowd - she resolutely stepped out in front of them all and marched - are Whites allowed to march ? - OK : she purposefully walked straight through their ranks of men and planted a White Poppy in the prominent central wreath and returned whilst they all defiantly tried to ignore " That Foolish Woman - AGAIN !!! " ... If you think that Pacifists are push-overs I think that you might not like to meet my ex-ex-ex-ex etc - probably not even in broad daylight ... and certainly not in the dark ... I can assure you - it not even safe to sit next to her on the sofa ...

From: Y Repwblic Yng Nghymru <repwblic@>
Sent: 09 November 2016 16:09
Subject: I want to suggest how you can end the false " White V Red Poppy " controversy which has been manufactured by the press.


Prime Minister Theresa May, 10 Downing Street, LONDON SW1A 2AA
Secretary of State for Defence Michael Fallon, Ministry of Defence, Whitehall, LONDON SW1A 2HB
Dear Theresa and Michael, 9th November 2016
I want to suggest how you can end the false " White V Red Poppy " controversy which has been manufactured by the press.
When a wreath of Red Poppies is to be laid (for) a general remembrance then place a single White Poppy amongst them.
This is not exactly historically accurate but symbolically it better represents the truth of what actually happened in both World Wars.
Please imagine those ranks of tombstones to be seen in our war graves in Europe : not all of those buried there are combatants.
If every headstone were replaced by a poppy you would soon notice that every so often one of those poppies would be White.
In both World Wars there were Conscientious Objectors who whilst refusing to fight preferred to serve as non-combatants.
For example from PPU.org.uk I understand that in World War Two 465 of the 6,766 Non-Combatant Corps served in bomb disposal.
I have thought of this before and this must be too late for the Cenotaph Remembrance Parade of 11th November 2016 - and / but -
- whilst I respect the work of The British Legion ( I gave them my donation today and they respect my wearing the White Poppy ) -
- " Remembrance Day " is neither supposed to be so closely connected to The British Legion itself nor indeed to the UK military ...
... I much prefer to think of " Armistice Day " and of all of the war memorials that I have ever seen I think that Cardiff's is the best ...
... " The Angel of The Armistice " offers to us a cross which is a sword held by the blade : we can choose between Peace or War ...
I choose Peace but in choosing Quakerism I never found its arguments for Peace so compelling as those found in Republicanism.
We must wage Peace or " The Angel of The Armistice " wages War against us by moving The Sword of Justice into The Left Hand.
I know ... but a pretentious permanently poetical popularly polemical politically peculiar person has to finish his letters with a flourish.
I really need to keep this letter within the bounds of sincerity - so I will have to write poems for you both upon some other occasion.
Yours Sincerely,
dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The British Armed Forces ask us not to remember_What their uniforms mean : that they are hired to dismember_Those of us who are not so clothed -_They want not to know how much they are loathed_By The British Republicans - each and every November.

The British Armed Forces ask us not to remember_
What their uniforms mean : that they are hired to dismember_
Those of us who are not so clothed -_
They want not to know how much they are loathed_
By The British Republicans - each and every November.

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !

This is my response to the Remembrance Sunday ... CRAP ... these military people expect us to be grateful to them " for protecting Wales " but " The Shilling Men " have sold their souls and surrendered their will : they are paid money to kill - you think that they kill on your behalf ? They kill on behalf of those who pay them and their orders are to kill their enemies - not your enemies - so : are you poor ? Then you are an " enemy " of those who will pay their soldiers to kill you ... Oh - you did not understand that rich people view poor people as enemies ? ... Well - perhaps not enemies as such because that would imply that they would be admitting that you are The People in Wales instead of The Livestock in Wales : so desperate to be treated with respect you think that being slaughtered is the way to having your lives improved ?



Charity Support the Heroes ordered to suspend fundraising [ SCOTLAND ]

A veterans charity that became the subject of a BBC Scotland investigation has been ordered to suspend fundraising by the charities watchdog. ... The Charity Commission also issued a freezing order on assets held by Support the Heroes. ... It followed secret filming by the BBC that showed fundraisers claiming they were working for free. ... However, the charity later acknowledged that its workers were paid commission. ... ... Support the Heroes said on its website that false accusations have been made about it in an attempt to discredit its fundraising activities. ... It insisted it was not a "fake" or "fraud" charity but a real charity, registered and compliant with the Charity Commission and its guidelines.



Dafydd [ " Moritz " ] rang me earlier and told me that one of the wreaths laid actually had a substantial number of White poppies in it ( to do with The Gulf War I think that he said ) but I have not located any news of this.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wear your puppy with pride :_First use a knife so that when you insert it inside_Your recruits will be screaming when you drag out their guts _And whatever their colour make sure that these mutts_All end up as red puppies - who die for our side.

Wear your puppy with pride :_
First use a knife so that when you insert it inside_
Your recruits will be screaming when you drag out their guts _
And whatever their colour make sure that these mutts_
All end up as red puppies - who will die for your side.

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was sent a copy of this letter to The Western Mail - it is very strong I thought.

Please remember the civilian dead too

November 12 will be Remembrance Sunday this year.

Despite the horrific sacrifices that families worldwide have suffered, we will be “treated” to a solemn, sober broadcast, wherein one of the Dimbleby clan utter mindless claptrap.

To perpetuate the myth further, we will have a Prime Minister sporting a red poppy placing a symbolic wreath upon a structure that surely should symbolise the sacrifices of all nations.

In early May 1915, shortly after losing a friend in Ypres, a Canadian doctor, Lt Col John McCrae, was inspired by the sight of poppies to write a now famous poem called In Flanders Fields.

McCrae’s poem inspired an American academic, Moina Michael, to make and sell red silk poppies which were brought to England by a French woman, Anna Guérin.

No more, the Royal British Legion has issued a decree wherein the wearing of a red poppy commemorates “only members of the British and Allied forces”.

So, we have the unedifying spectacle of a Prime Minister wearing a symbol that apparently bears no reference to the universal civilian suffering that always accompanies conflict, who is happy to sell armaments to despotic governments and which will happily use these weapons in order to inflict ever increasing misery upon innocent civilians, laying a wreath of red poppies that are only supposed to commemorate members of British and allied forces.

An estimated 60,000 British civilians died as a result of World War II – by the latest definition of the Royal British Legion, none of them will be commemorated by this wreath laying.

Grief is not a one-sided affair in any conflict. Innocent people die on both sides.

Those of us who choose to wear a white poppy do so for a number of reasons. It states our implacable opposition to war, which in our view is the slaughter of the many for the aggrandisement of the few, usually, but no means confined to, arms manufacturers.

We have a government that is happy to allow the top 10% of the population to exceed the bottom 10% by nearly 900% in wealth; is happy to subject our youth and future generations to poverty in the name of austerity; and which is happy for its unelected leader to wear a symbol that will exclude all but members of British and Allied forces.

Is this definition of a democratic society? Seriously?

Patrick G Rafferty
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Has the core message of the Poppy Appeal been diluted?
By Anisa Subedar

Has the core meaning of the Poppy Appeal - the annual charity drive in remembrance of those killed in conflict which supports The Royal British Legion - been diluted by crass uses and commercialisation? The person behind a viral Twitter account cataloguing extreme poppy examples thinks this might be the case. ... His Twitter bio describes himself as a "Self-Appointed Poppy Enforcer" and he's racked up more than 10,000 followers. @GiantPoppyWatch posts outlandish and often giant-sized uses of the poppy, giving them mocking "ratings" out of 10. ... The person behind the "Poppy Watch" account says his mission is to "highlight the absurdity and obscenity of what's happened to Remembrance Day." ... But far from being against the Poppy Appeal, the person behind the account - who asked to remain anonymous because of his job - says he feels that its ultimate and profound meaning has been lost. ...

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