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September 7 Coronation of Henry III
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marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:28 pm    Post subject: rondezvous Reply with quote

I don't know about you Dai. I'm hoping to be at Dafydd's between about 6 and 7 pm Friday 9 Mis Medi unless I hear of a change of plan. Dy weld di fory Moritz.
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Moritz



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:07 pm    Post subject: vivat rex Reply with quote

Dafydd and I set out from Cardiff to Gloucester early on one misty morning. We didn't especially enjoy the outward journey because of continuing anxiety about petrol, which bridge to cross, where to turn off the motorway, and parking fees.

But once we saw the boy king carried down the street in a ceremonial chair, we threw ourselves into the spirit of the occasion, shouting ''Hooray!'' and ''God save the King!'' like mindlessly loyal subjects. The boy looked serious and regal.
One woman along the route was surprised. She didn't think we'd had a king since 1952. She really needed to catch up.

The yellowish Gothic architecture was easy on the eye. We were lucky to find our way into the choir stalls. Most people had to stand. You often read of sweet smelling herbs strewn on the floors of cathedrals on these occasions; it's a phrase that slips past consciousness.

But that day we saw and smelt the sweetness of the herbs. Originally, it would have been a counter attack against sweaty bodies.

According to the spiel we heard, the French were in the country with the anti-king Louis. William Marshal aged 70 retained loyalty to the late King John and therefore his son, although John had given him no encouragement to be loyal.

The council agreed to an immediate coronation of 9 year old Henry iii. The crown jewels were either inaccessible in London or even more inaccessible in the Wash so the queen provided a band of gold to take the place of a crown.

A bishopy looking character administered the oath to the boy. I was sorry that it included an oath of subordination to the Pope. This was after Magna Carta, and there was no excuse for it. Dafydd tells me the barons had decreed that the Church of England should be free.

The Bishop of Gloucester Rachel Treweek was present in her mitre but the guy next to me took her for an actor. She didn't do much, just pronounced the blessing.

It looked as if other people were saying her lines for her because she was too shy or tongue tied. But she is a trained speech and language therapist. She had an archetypal medieval face, but more that of a gawky yokel than a bishop. Looks are not important anyway.

Dafydd and I saw some manly hand to hand fighting later. We shouted, ''John! John! John!'' Both combatants were called John, so we were entirely impartial.

I was touched that the notice warning people to stay on the safe side of the ropes was not only spelt out in English and French but also Welsh. It was grammatically correct too. It's more than you often find in Wales.

Then the pavilion flaps opened and the boy king came out crowned. Dafydd and I shouted, ''God save the king!'' like crazy. The boy was in reality 11 year old Fraser Martin. He won a Gloucester wide competition.

Maybe every boy should have a coronation, and every girl too. It will be something positive to look back on. We then looked at a white - no, grey, horse.

Everyone admired him, and graciously ignored the heap of shit he was creating. But he was too prima donna-ish and highly strung to be patted by Dafydd.

I really envy the good folk of Gloucester. They have interesting lectures on history every week from the likes of Bettany Hughes, Saul David and Jane Ridley.

To avoid paying the toll at the Severn Bridge we drove back through scenic little settlements on the banks of the Severn. It really made no substantive difference to the journey time. We passed a pub called the Severn Bore.

This is nothing to do with pub bores who want to talk about the Severn. Apparently as the Severn rolls down to the sea, it makes contact with the tide pushing the other way. It looks like a river on top of another river. It is strongest as dark moon and new moon.


Last edited by marianneh on Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Moritz



Joined: 10 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
bishopy looking character administered the oath to the boy. I was sorry that it included an oath of subordination to the Pope. This was after Magna Carta, and there was no excuse for it. Dafydd tells me the barons had decreed that the Church of England should be free.

The Bishop of Gloucester Rachel Treweek was present in her mitre but the guy next to me took her for an actor. She didn't do much, just pronounced the blessing.
Barons' Revolt continued because Pope forbade John to keep Magna Charta because Article 1: Ecclesia Anglican libera esse.

Coronation ceremony was actors dressed up as Bishops, but the real Bishop was there too. I've never been blessed by a female bishop before.

Quote:
This is nothing to do with pub bores who want to talk about the Severn. Apparently as the Severn rolls down to the sea, it makes contact with the tide pushing the other way. It looks like a river on top of another river. It is strongest as dark moon and new moon.
strongest at Full Moon and Dark Moon. New Moon is the same as Dark Moon.
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:28 pm    Post subject: Oo Reply with quote

Oh of course. I probably meant to say Full Moon but I'd just been reading a Canadian children's novel on the internet that was called 'Emily of New Moon. That was what put the words 'new moon' into my head.
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Moritz



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pub Quiz was Victorian novel? Adam says "Floss on the Mill"
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:10 am    Post subject: adam Reply with quote

It's a bit like a Spoonerism. By the way, it's possible to warm to Maggie if not Tom Tulliver but 'The Mill on the Floss' is really turgid.
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Moritz



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

During the show, we had to yell "God save the King"

How unlike the coronation of our own dear William I.
When Saxons yelled "God save the King" Normans assumed the Peasants were revolting and killed everybody in the whole world.
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:17 am    Post subject: William the Conquero Reply with quote

Yes, it was bad under the Norman yoke. Of course, when people start shouting in English, the Normans naturally get paranoid. What do they want to speak their own language for? This is greater Normandy, isn't it?

But if 'God Save the King' is subversive, what can you say and stay alive? Would silence be safer? Not the merriest Christmas Day of all time!

Roger's friend Lord Snooty whose breakdown takes the form of insufferable snobbery goes round saying, ''I'm a Norman!'' He expects people to be impressed. Oddly enough, they're not.

Didn't someone say kind hearts were better than coronets and simple faith than Norman blood? It's true except for the simple faith. That's no use at all.

Then the harrying of the north would be seen as genocide by the 1948 definition. My mother had heard a vague report that William had good intentions.

Good intentions? Is that why he dispossessed the peasants to make the New Forest? And why it was a mutilation offence to poach there?

Before William became the Conqueror, he was known as William the Bastard. Of course, it wasn't meant in the modern sense. But if it had been, it would have been a succinct and accurate sobriquet.


Last edited by marianneh on Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:37 pm    Post subject: na Reply with quote

If we're invited to a re-enactment of William i's coronation, I vote we give it a miss.
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dai



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The re-coronation of Bill the Bastard ? ... Is that Theresa May's alter ego ?
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:35 am    Post subject: Joanna Reply with quote

We now have a woman bishop in Wales, Joanna Penberthy at St Davids. She says she has faced discrimination and prejudice.

Of course she has. You only have to look at some of the literature by Credo Cymru to feel extremely disturbed. They are really into female subordination, especially in marriage. It sounds like something from Afghanistan.

The reporters from 'Big Issue Cymru' who interviewed Joan Buckingham, then chairwoman of Credo Cymru were baffled. They thought women had all the requisite abilities to be priests, compassion, motherliness.

Well no, we're dealing in stereotypes here. Not all women have these traits. Joan didn't for a start.

Although she enjoyed abasing herself before priests in a flirtatious way, Joan was not really a doormat. She liked pushing around female students in the hall of residence for unladylike conduct. It was an opportunity for domineering narcissism.

The comedian Lee Evans told a chat show how scary he found the writer of 'The Surrendered Wife.' She was shouting aggressively at inductees, ''You must be submissive!''

He thought, ''God, yes! You are, aren't you, love?''

Some people don't understand why Christianity has had such a violent history. Isn't it all about meekness and loving your enemy and turning the other cheek? Christianity is all about being poor in spirit so the thugs can take over.

It's not everyone who aspires to meekness. Meekness is for selected groups.
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