Y Repwblic
Conversations with Wales' Republicans : Poblachiaethwyr - Repwbligwyr - Gweriniaethwyr


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Y Repwblic Forum Index -> Hanesyddol - Historical
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message

Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2853

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:40 pm    Post subject: THE IRON MOUTH of THE FRIENDS OF TRUTH Reply with quote

Well ... still struggling with that " GOT CARTA ? GET MAGNA ! " thread ... http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=1198 ... so why not just start another instead ?

Now I am struggling to get Daf to lend Repwblic.org his superior education and intellect ... but how to do it ? ... Could I persuade him to join in the quest for The Stick Of Truth ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Park:_The_Stick_of_Truth ... now does this image count as fair abuse ? ... Butt has this anything to do with the above subject matter ?

" ... ' South Park : The Stick of Truth ' is a 2014 role-playing video game ... an epic role-play fantasy war involving humans, wizards, and elves, who are fighting for control of the all-powerful Stick of Truth ... The game was subject to censorship in some regions because of its content, which includes abortions and Nazi imagery; Parker and Stone replaced the scenes with detailed explanations of what occurs in each scene. The Stick of Truth was released to positive reviews, which praised the comedic script, visual style, and faithfulness to the source material. It received criticism for a lack of challenging combat and technical issues that slowed or impeded progress. A sequel, South Park : The Fractured But Whole, is in development. ... Collecting friends allows the player to unlock perks that permanently improve the New Kid's statistics, providing extra damage or resistance to negative effects. The character's Facebook page also serves as the game's main menu, containing the inventory and a quest journal. ... "


If you do not know ' South Park ' it is an irritatingly addictive satirical cartoon that basically makes a pedantic point out of going too far and then coming back again ... and Daf adores it whereas I do not ... whereas I have the same instinct for iconaclasm I do not employ swearing or crude humour other than for the business of making a point : if a swear word or vile image is used for emphasis and illustration it can be effective, whereas if your conversation consists of nothing more than that then ... er ... well, if your conversation is normally conducted and then you suddenly shout and pound the table then its shock value can be useful, whereas if you do this all the time then your company is merely unpleasant and people will walk away : far from making your point and thus hopefully winning the argument nobody will remember it and nobody will be interested in even entering into a conversation with you thereafter. Having said that, there is a point to be made about the way in which The Democrats in Wales conduct themselves towards The People in Wales whom they oppress but will not admit to oppressing, and in our experience they behave something like this -

- " If you do X then Y will happen and the consequence for We The People will be Z ! " ... " You have not understood the benefits of X and if Y happens then surely Z will not be the consequence." ... ... " See - you did X and Y has happened and the consequence has been Z as We The People predicted." ... " X was necessary and yes - it appears that Y has happened but we deny that Z is the consequence of X causing Y." ... ... " We have collected the facts to demonstrate that X caused Y and our argument is that the consequences for We The People are Z." ... " We now accept that X caused Y but we still deny that the consequences for You The People have been Z." ... ... " It has taken We The People several years to save up just enough to be able to afford to pay experts and lawyers to challenge your behaviour in a court room where we will be able to prove that X caused Y and the consequences were Z." ... " We will use Our government's resources paid for by You People to defend ourselves against Your unfounded allegations of Our incompetence, fraudulent lies and corruption in doing X which did not cause Y to happen and therefore definitely did not have the consequences Z." ... ... " We have proven in court that X caused Y to happen with consequences Z - We The People demand that as proven criminals You resign your offices - and You compensate us ! " ... " The People as tax-payers will of course be compensating yourselves - and We will not pay a penny and not resign but receive a golden handshake, a ghost-written book deal and several company directorships and then be promoted All Of The Democrats in Westminster to The House of Lords in order to be rewarded with all sorts of further opportunities on account of our extensive experience and our proven loyalties to those whom we serve - WHO ARE NOT YOU ! " ... " YOU $@#*ing £%&~ING DEMOCRATS !!! "

It is this sort of repetitive experience and the sad news of many other such experiences which are being repetitively repeated all across those other political systems that are modeled upon The United Kingdom and the knowledge that this is more or less exactly what The Republicans in Wales were struggling against over the past five centuries that led me to the firm conclusion that it must be firmly and loudly asserted that the whole thing must go. But of course it is not possible to overthrow a political system other by argument - which is why the lot of The Republicans in Wales over those centuries has been to be not argued against but suppressed. Anybody who stands back and takes a look at the history of The United Kingdom can only conclude that " United " it most certainly is not - it has controlled The People in Wales, England, Scotland and Ireland by a whole variety of coercive means : it the a complete orchestration of Ultraisms and when the same methods were used in its empire The People in America, India, Africa, China, Asia etc all fought back ... But they have still not learned ...

... Because they do not intend to : right now in 2015 the political system called The United Kingdom has not only just narrowly avoided losing Scotland the same way that it lost southern Ireland, is not only once more setting everybody on these islands at each other's throats, but has mortgaged its own basis in bailing out the wealthiest which it serves whilst making The People in Wales AND The People in England AND The People in Scotland AND The People in Northern Ireland AND - through The City of London - The People in The World - PAY FOR THE MISTAKES OF THESE %$&£-ING DEMOCRATS !!! " ... Anybody with their head screwed on can see that the Nationalist Republicans are reacting to this - but anybody with their head screwed on can see that The People in The World are not to be divided, and therefore erecting fences across the islands of Britain and Ireland is not the solution : however you wish to contrive it, no political system based upon the nation-state can exist in a state of independence.

The Republican in Wales solution is ultimately to obliterate the nation-state altogether : to reject all notional relationships for real relationships as the basis of all laws, and therefore since all valid laws are universally valid then the political systems which create them must Nomocratic and Cosmopolitan i.e. not Democratic but Republican. The political systems must be Altruistic and therefore include all of The People who can bring to them facts and arguments - but they must be constructed to exclude all known Ultraisms : Hierarchy, Democracy, Aristocracy, Monarchy - and they must mutually share in realistic means to resist any attempts by the Ultraists to regain control over them ... and the aspiration is to achieve all of this without plunging The People in The World into a series of destructive stases with The People in Wales set at the throats of The People in England or indeed anybody else : We The People are to be found everywhere, but there are those who carve The World up into " we ourselves v the others " ...

... That " v " is the critical term - " Ultraism " means " Beyond The Boundary " and what Ultraists do is to set boundaries beyond which " The Others " are enemies and all those which they are willing to count as on the correct side of the boundary are then promised a share in the despoilation of those enemies - women etc. But how can anybody draw such a boundary and divide The People in The World ? That boundary can only be drawn around themselves : an Ultraist is somebody who withdraws from The People in The World by drawing a boundary around themselves in order to keep " The Others " out and to hoard what they have despoiled from the " The Others " and to defend it by dispensing a share of it to those who agree to serve them ... Given my interests in the history of Wales and its architecture the obvious analogies to this are scattered all over the landscape which surrounds me : there are arguably no " Welsh castles " here and there are arguably no " English castles " either - these fortified boundaries defended by the brutish wretches who preyed upon The People in Wales in order to coerce them to pay the feudal tributes in livestock and crops which later became commuted into the money payments of rents and taxes hoarded by The Aristocracy and extorted by The Monarchy which have developed into the Corporations and Governments whose political system is - The United Kingdom ...


Any political system is a decision making process and therefore in order to secure the best results a well designed one will be hungry for facts and eager for arguments by which to test those facts : therefore a functional political system is inquisitorial and characterised by more questions than answers and above all by a process in which everybody is involved so that everybody comes to understand the decisions made and positively accepts and actively supports them - but the protagonists of the decision making process are not the majority or even a large minority but are those who care, those activists who have collected the facts and are making the arguments and initiating the experiments and reviewing the consequences in order to decide as to whether they were good decisions. In other words, in a Pure Republican political system The People behave like you and me and everybody else - naturally, like a bunch of peasants pursuing our Life by living in Peace, Freedom, Love - and Truth !

BUT ... A non-political system is a process through which decisions are not made but enforced upon " The Others " and therefore in order to secure the desired results it is designed to ignore facts and deny arguments and to refuse to test the consequences of what is desired by those who deploy various means to coerce others to obey their will through confusing them, upsetting them, impoverishing them, threatening them with violence and if necessary killing those who continue to disobey. It is necessary to cultivate passive acquiescence to decisions that are negatively resigned by ensuring that decisions are not understood by necessarily excluding everybody else from the decision making process - yet the protagonists of the decision making process must appear to be the majority and not even a small majority, so they must not care for facts and be uninterested in making arguments or initiating experiments let alone reviewing the consequences lest they decide that these were bad decisions. In other words, in a Pure Democratic political system The Important People do not behave like you and me and everybody else - but un-naturally, like a bunch of ... partisans ... pursuing our Death by perpetrating War, Slavery, Hatred - and Lies !

... er ... " party-sans " ... ? ... party-dance ? ... partly-sands ? ... party-sense - NO ! - NONE OF THAT NOW !!! ...

" Partisans " ... ? ... You know, those beggers who come around hoping to exploit your misery in order to obtain your support for their dismal attempts every five years or so to pretend to overthrow the government ... those who turn up on your doorstep once in a blue moon - and thus never too soon, always too soon ... who normally shove their pamphlets where your sun does not shine and then run away as fast as possible in case you answer your door or even worse start asking questions ... or worst of all actually start arguing about their politics when they have been instructed by their owners the Demockeratical Demagogmagogs absolutely never to ever think about anything in case they get cancer or rabies if they talk to their deadliest friends, the Republicanical Rebels... who have come to tell you that they are campaigning for a better society for you - but that just right now they just need some more ready cash ... and if they could just burrow your daughter - and could you by any chance spare them a banquet ... and ... and ... and in the legends of Wales these " partisans " are usually red in some way, either because they are sporting expensive red items of apparel or because they are just drenched in blood or - alternatively - because they just want you to ruddy well dye for them and The Truth which they say that they have proclaimed ... and funnily enough in Welsh Folk Tales they are almost always usually depicted as either carrying a big stick or just coming back with one later ... at which point they reveal that they had previously had to disguise themselves in order to win the throne but now they can openly declare themselves to be " The Princes of Wales," or " The Lords of The Fair Folk " or " The Archbishops of Adamsdown and Splott " - and then they just whack the peasants with their newly established stick of authority until we just have to submit and so wisely agree that whatever they say is " The Truth."

I still can not figure out why Daf likes this " South Park " cartoon so much though, unless perhaps he is somehow identifying with this " Stick of Truth " character whose whole philosophy to me seems to be to " SPEAK LOUDLY & carry a big stick ! "

Coercion of any sort is no source of any sort of authority because it can not obtain " The Truth " but rather destroys it. Depending upon your sense of humour, the South Wales Police force in recently being exposed once more as yet still obtaining confessions by coercion have demonstrated this perfectly. They needed to improve their crime solving statistics, so they started coercing known burglars to confess to other crimes once they had apprehended them for one. Once in the court room however this backfired for a change when the judge inquired of them how the defendant had succeeded in committing the burglary in question whilst in prison for a previous conviction. All over Wales and England there are examples of this and worse e.g. women who go to report being rape and are raped again by the police in the course of their " inquiries." The situation is rumoured to be worse in Scotland and worse again in Northern Ireland where the Royal Ulster Constabulary was so discredited that it had to be effectively dismantled and reconstructed as the Police Service of Northern Ireland. The new recruits to the PSNI got a terrible shock when it was revealed to them that it was themselves who had to hit the deck and do the push ups and not their suspects ... and then they were forced to watch " The Stick Of Truth " film ?

GAME CLIP - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ5csGN6YAw ... FILM - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrU_tt4R3xY ... 1.16.39 SECONDS TOO LONG



But let us preserve " The Stick of Truth " idea to use for beating our politicians with in exposing the true nature of the political system called " The United Kingdom " - you know, the political system which is setting everybody at each other's throats and driving Nationalism because Notionalisms like those spouted by The United Kingdom Independence Party can only flourish in a political system founded upon Lies, Hatred, Enslavement, War and thus is directed towards The Death of Society - The Death of Peace, The Death of Freedom, The Death of Love and The Death of Truth. It is The Death of Truth which itself begins the tangential departure away from the centre of society where the shared values which hold it together can be found, the biological facts of The Life of Society. When Ultraist politicians serving The Communities of Interest which are trying to obtain control of The Life of Society through various means of coercion start to redefine The Public Interest in terms of The Interests of Their Communities they have to tell The Lie in order to deny The Truth. Thus the practices of The Hierarchs in arguing for The Lie in the face of the facts are fundamental to the corruption of any political society, and immediately afterwards The Democrats are employed to encourage The Hatred between minorities to set them at each others' throats ; then follows The Aristocrats to progress The Enslavement of The People in order to make them dependant upon their supposed betters - and then comes The Monarchists who will wage The War against both those enslaved and those who are not yet enslaved, who will finally entirely disregard The Rule of Law thinking themselves to be above the biological facts of our species who will then destroy The Life of Society by trying to break the unbreakable law - The Nomos : The Law of The Cosmos which determines the biological facts which have defined The Life of Society.

When we talk of " The Truth " we are in reality referring to what little we know of " The Nomos " - " The Truth " is merely our present understanding of the biological facts which define The Life of Society : The Law which we make can be remade in the light of freshly discovered facts and newly wrought understandings ... It is a long-standing fact of centuries that the political system which we call The United Kingdom has failed, keeps of failing and will fail again - and it is actually getting worse because those who are in control of it not only depend upon the Lies, Hatred, Enslavement and War necessary to it and as a consequence have to believe in it as a political system but they also have to propagandise this Notionalism to those who they rule over. But whilst The People in Wales and The World do not share in the Notionalism of The Democrats in Wales and The World we have great difficulty in agreeing a different belief system, especially in The United Kingdom because it is a Complete Ultraism : a chameleon-like political system which is devoid even of a written constitution and therefore capable of adapting to demands for political reform by constantly appearing to change in response to them but in fact never doing so. Since 1980 literally centuries of effort by generations of The People in Wales and The World have been destroyed because we foolishly entrusted the social institutions which had been created by our forebears into the care of what we thought was now the reformed political system called The United Kingdom. It is clear that by 2020 nearly everything that geneations of The People in Wales and The World had achieved will have been deliberately destroyed and that this will not be by accident but by design : this was clearly planned and the same Ultraists will remain even when we have finally swept away forever the political system called The United Kingdom.



We need to understand that Democracy has simply been another Ultraism and that we should define all Ultraisms as crimes against The People - and we need to stick at beating them with The Truth.

Like " The Friends of Truth " did with " The Mouth of Iron " which was a political club started in 1790 when they first commandeered a wheelbarrow and went for that annual pic-nic which is now generally known as Bastille Day or La Fête Nationale but on the first occasion was " La Fête de La Fédération " ... and that is what I am supposed to be writing about here, for the purposes of a pick-nick near the David Williams memorial in the park south of Caerphilly Castle on " Y Dydd Rhydd " ( 14th July 2015.) ... David Williams was strongly associated with The Girondins and ... and ... well, I hesitate to pronounce this as proven - yet - but - I think that he was probably one of " Les Amis de la Verité " and therefore I think that it is safe to assume that he wrote articles for or had his English-language articles re-published in " La Bouche de Fer." It is a long time ago that I read the following book on him -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/David-Williams-The-Anvil-Hammer/dp/0708309496 - Amazon have nineteen seconds on sale this morning for £2.97+£2.80p+p


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williams_(philosopher) ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%AAte_de_la_F%C3%A9d%C3%A9ration
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2853

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK ... Let me try to make a start ... I can not help but feel that the Wikipedia page on " Welsh Philosophers " is seriously deficient - there are certainly more than this !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Welsh_philosophers - The Democrats in Wales ignore them but -

- if we lived in a civilised country we would be seeking the advice of - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Binmore

" ... Binmore’s work in political and moral philosophy began in the 1980s when he first applied bargaining theory to John Rawls' original position. His search for the philosophical foundations of the original position took him first to Kant's works, and then to Hume. Hume inspired Binmore to contribute to a naturalistic science of morals that seeks foundations for Rawlsian ideas about fairness norms in biological and social evolution. The result was his two-volume Game Theory and the Social Contract, an ambitious attempt to lay the foundations for a genuine science of morals using the theory of games. In Game Theory and the Social Contract Binmore proposes a naturalistic reinterpretation of John Rawls' original position that reconciles his egalitarian theory of justice with John Harsanyi's utilitarian theory. His recent Natural Justice provides a nontechnical synthesis of this work. ... "

... But when did all of this intelligent thinking about politics actually begin in Wales ? The date can certainly be pushed back to c1550 when William Thomas, generally considered to be The ( Grand- ? God- ? ) Father of Republicanism in Wales and certainly its first martyr, first translated Machiavelli - but he was certainly not the first ... so why, we may ask , are we stuck with such a bunch of Democrats in Wales as this - some of whom are functionally illiterate and most of whom are so innumerate that they do not know which way up to hold a balance sheet and yet whilst incompetent to conduct the business of government are able to wield more power than anyone else in Wales with less responsibility than those upon whom they can visit such havoc without their victims in most cases having any recourse to legal redress and on the rare occasions that anybody succeeds they never pay a penny nor submit to a penalty - let alone resign ! - and leave the tax-payers to pay themselves their own compensations out of their own tax-money ? That is, always assuming that The Democrats in Wales have not actually killed off The People in Wales through embarking on nuclear warfare, starving them to death or driving them away into exile - where they go simply in order to avoid being bored to death by these clumsy Ultraists who can not even be bothered to invent a Gair Cymraeg for " Ultraists " ... typically lazy good for nothing XXXXs who leave it to The Republicans in Wales to sort out the messes which they leave behind ...


Time for a totally inappropriate short-cut ( i.e. taking a detour which will be going way off at a wild but interesting tangent ) ... " XXXX " ... ? ... " EITHAFWR " is the Welsh word for " extremist " i.e. somebody like me, who takes things to their logical extremes in order to blow a hole in somebody else's argument - which I consider to be necessary even if my reasoning of it simply bombs ... ah ... well that is a risky form of humour for an International Pacificatorical Cosmopolitanisational kind of Pure Republican to be indulging myself in here in Wales ... any how ... by analogy with the words about " being beyond " which I am familiar with I thought that I might knock up one for " ULTRAIST " over my cigarette break ... I might even go and have a coffee too ... the Welsh word for the non-English word " ALTRUIST " ( which in Latin literally means " OTHER-IST " from ' alter ' - ' other ' ) is " ALLGARWR " - " OTHER-LOVE-MAN " ( ' all ' - ' other,' ' arall - an-other,' ' allan ' - ' other-place ' ... I think ... but I want a word for that other word ... for a ' beyond-the-boundary-man ' ... I know, I know - " From The Point Of View Of Feminists ... " )

... ( thinks ) ... tra ? + terfyn ? + gŵr ?

The ' g ' is often lost through mutation and so " -wr " is a typical ending for " something / verb + man " e.g. " allgarwr "

The Latin ' m ' is often rendered in Welsh as ' f ' so " terfyn " is the same Latin root word which appears in " The Terminator " - and so has suitable associations with robotic behaviour and of having neither a conscience nor any possibility of an awareness as to the consequences of any of his actions even if he did have one. This has useful the connotation of a mechanical sub-human consciousness driven by programming which is designed for a narrow purpose without the possibility of moral and ethical reflection in which the individual is therefore incapable of doing otherwise than following orders. This is a good description of a soldier who blindly follows orders because he is paid to discard his responsibility to others and brutalised in his military training in order to forget even himself and thus when discarded as useless for their purposes by his Monarchists he is so often to be found begging upon our streets, both physically and mentally injured yet unable to know either how to help himself or how to ask others for help : both a perpetrator and a victim of war.

" Terfyn- " in Y GPC is rich in associations and usages including - ' boundary, border, frontier, limit, period, end ' - and it can be ' fig. of a person ' and so there is " terfynwr " - ' terminator, boundary marker-(-man,) completer, finalist, horizon ' - and the sense that I am searching for is somebody who has left behind the limits of what can be described as " The Public Sphere " or has exited " The Territory of Politics " or has opted out of " Welsh Political Society " by drawing a boundary around themselves i.e. has placed everybody else on the other side of a frontier set up around themselves to define those things which they lay claim to as their own interest ... think in terms of the Norman invasion of Wales in which a bunch of complete strangers came on holiday to visit your neighbourhood and then persuaded your ancestors that it really was in The Publi Interest to build their very own castle, feed and clothe and give all of their worldly goods away to their very own lord and all of his retinue, provide them with their very own mothers, wives and daughters for recreational purposes and then to throw their very own selves onto their visitors' spears and swords just in order to provide them with entertainment ... our ancestors were incredibly hospitable you know : they kept this game up for centuries, tearing down these various invaders' castles every so often when they got bored with the present incumbants in order to invite new ones in to invade and thus create the opportunity for more varieties of daiversion ... oh ... uh-em ...

Which leads me to the matter of the possibly la-la pre-fix of " tra- " which in Y GPC is ... um ... ' very, extremely, exceedingly ' and ' beyond, over, across, the other side of ' and ' above, beyond, after ' ... which crops up in words like ' tramor ' which carries the sense ' beyond the sea ' which I think is related to ' traw / traw / thraw ' which conveys ' beyond, yonder, over by there ' and thought was therefore related to the bus company " Traws-Cambria " but apparently ' traws ' has meanings such as ' strong, powerful, mighty, wicked, cruel, violent, oppressive ' with phrases such as " ar draws " meaning ' deceit, violence, moral disorder ' and " ar draws i'w gilydd " means ' higgledy-piggledy disorder ' ... so if " tra- " as a prefix can also summon up those associations ... well, that seems to me to be quite useful ...

So how about ULTRAIST = " TRADERFYNWR " - ? ... but is that a credible decision ? ... http://arno.uvt.nl/show.cgi?fid=63297

This of course is not merely my messing with the Welsh language but also with other people's sense of reality as constructed through both the English and Welsh languages by using the corresponding intersections of meanings and then the effect of the disjunctions between them. Whilst my indulging in this pass-time is directed towards an end I am also indulging myself by playing with what I hope is obviously to be counted as a false " terfyniaeth " ... it is a nice word though ... so naturally I am enjoying wondering how it sounds in the minds of professional Cambrophones ?

TERFYNIAETH - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleology - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critique_of_Judgment

How on earth is all of that drivel related to the matter in hand ? ... If you are one of those who would never admit that there has ever been any Republicanism in Wales then your biggest problem is going to be never picking up Y Geriadur Prifysgol Cymru ever again - after you read the next sentence. Y GPC is full of the legacies of the French Revolution - and there is absolutely nothing that you can do about it ... and there no use in resorting to resolutely speaking English either because The Oxford English Dictionary is even worse. The whole reason why The Girondists asked David Williams to go to Paris in 1792 was to draught " Le Déclaration des Droits de l'Homme et du Citoyen " as the basis of the newly declared "République Française " was because political discussion before 1789 had been difficult if not dangerous and they were struggling to put their ideas into words because they simply did not have any available to describe what they wanted to say - so they were borrowing from the English and Americans whom they much admired and whom they felt were to be emulated but they were also ransacking Latin and Greek dictionaries and manufacturing new words wholesale.

Everybody to begin with was getting very excited and sending long letters back explaining some of the very very long new old words at very very very great length and the Hwntws were the most involved with all of this and they were going full steam ahead inventing eisteddfods and planting gorsedds all over their primrose'd paths whilst the Gogs eventually got so peeved they knocked up the longest possible word which they could devise and pretended that it was a place and not only erected a sign board for it the length of a railway station they actually levied a local tax just in order to raise the money to have the main line railway diverted there to make sure that all of the Hwntws would come and see it but we already had many - or perhaps plenty ? - more railway stations to look at by then than they did. So eventually those poor Gogs were left trying to stop the trains in order to explain the whole idea to day-trippers from Liverpuddle in a language that nobody can understand and then ... well of course the Welsh have all been so busy arguing amongst themselves over how to manufacture and pronounce new words ever since the First French Revolution we did not even notice the Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth or ... well - not even French are bothering to keep the score any more ...

... At the beginning of the First French Revolution in 1789 things were going well but by the end of 1793 things were going very badly with wars raging both within France and without as foreign powers had attacked the newly declared French Republic in the hope of dividing the spoils with the native insurgents and The Democrats in France were definitely settling their scores both with The Monarchists and The Aristocrats and The Hierarchs and also The Republicans in France. Whilst David Williams rushed back to London to plead with The United Kingdom's government not to go to war James Tilley Mathews stayed in Paris to plead the case there and ended up in a prison cell going mad both with the knowledge of the deaths of their friends The Republicans in France ( The Girondins ) and also with the prospect of his own life being ended by The Democrats in France ( The Jacobins.) But for many The Guillotine offered the only hope for freeing their minds from the madness which had overtaken The People in France who were denouncing each other in equally paranoid ways because " Terror was the Order of The Day " and the Committee for Public Safety subscribed to the idea that extremely public executions were necessary in order to maintain " The Rule of Law " and therefore a supply of victims was necessary - whatever the injustices involved - and so the very basis of The Republic in France was destroyed, and so " Le Déclaration des Droits de l'Homme et du Citoyen " was discarded and it never became what it was planned to be : the foundation document of a new legal system.

Perhaps " Le Déclaration des Droits de l'Homme et du Citoyen " was simply meaningless to those caught up in The French Republic's struggle for survival against the odds : The People in France had no use for it - they needed bread and lead in that order in order to live. But now that the language of Universal Human Rights and a Liberal Egalitarianism has become so familiar to us we may have difficulty in understanding the languages and ideas through which The People in Europe then lived, they may seem familiar but we interpret them according to the associations that we have learned to give words. Take the modern word ' Psychology ' which is supposedly well understood now but in fact much disputed : its root word is ' psyche ' and whilst most modern scientificated and therefore mildly educated commentators will propose that ' psyche ' means ' mind ' or the more religio-oscillated will perhaps suggest the meaning as ' soul ' the obscuranticalists will propose ' butterfly ' - and apparently that really is the original meaning of it and possibly the origins of the phrase " butterfly mind."

Perhaps the myth of Psyche and Eros is instructive ? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupid_and_Psyche

... It concerns the overcoming of obstacles to the love between Psyche (/ˈsaɪkiː/, Greek: Ψυχή, "Soul" or "Breath of Life") and Cupid (Latin Cupido, "Desire") or Amor ("Love", Greek Eros ’′Ερος), and their ultimate union in a sacred marriage. ...

... Venus revels in having the girl under her power, and turns Psyche over to her two handmaids, Worry and Sadness, to be whipped and tortured. Venus tears her clothes and bashes her head into the ground, and mocks her for conceiving a child in a sham marriage. The goddess then throws before her a great mass of mixed wheat, barley, poppyseed, chickpeas, lentils, and beans, demanding that she sort them into separate heaps by dawn. But when Venus withdraws to attend a wedding feast, a kind ant takes pity on Psyche, and assembles a fleet of insects to accomplish the task. Venus is furious when she returns drunk from the feast, and only tosses Psyche a crust of bread. ...


Myths and stories are one of the devices for trying to capture our " Butterfly Minds " which flit from one thing to another in such a pleasing way ... well I am enjoying myself anyway and you are only one click away from a blessed relief if you do not really like this " Conversation With Wales' Republican." Our minds do not consist solely of words and although we may fool ourselves into thinking that we are in control of where our thoughts are going our psyches are like butterflies riding on the wind. Butterflies migrating from Africa to Wales may well imagine themselves to be in control of their fate on account of the fact that so many have successfully ridden the wind before in much the same way that a junior staff used to join a bureaucracy and simply ride as far as they wished, some drifting along close to the ground in gentle breezes and others striving up into the jet set stream from where they landed sometimes upon high ledges. We are pattern-making creatures and once we have found a pattern we prefer to keep looking out for it in order to be able to make sense of our worlds - and our words are merely sounds which are otherwise devoid of meaning unless we can attach them to patterns. When we can not attach words to patterns or patterns to words our butterfly minds begin to flap their wings in panic, and of course that is how the storm which overtook The First French Republic began - when The King of France began to get in a bit of a flap and decided to run away instead of just asking to be excused from yet another pic-nic.

Please note that " The Butterfly Effect " is just a conjecture which is used to illustrate Chaos Theory i.e. it is a story about the chaotic behaviour of weather systems which has captured the attention of our Butterfly Minds which crave to make order out of chaos : it has no predictive value whatsoever and is another example of a myth or story which demonstrates that the objectivity of The Scientists in Wales and The World should be the subject of doubt. The Republicans in Wales and The World are but The Human Race trying to find patterns within our societies and then trying to fit words to them : the arguments which rage through The Welsh Language Debate tend to be sentimental and rarely take account of the actual nature of the words as essentially meaningless and therefore possessed of the ability of magically transforming our minds in the way that we can purposefully create new combinations of the associations which they signify. We all possess imaginations, but we tend to allow creativity to happen in the random way that farmers casually left their livestock to breed before they began in the 18c to purposefully experiment and then bred much more useful animals which in turn fed much more useful people i.e. enabled them to be employed doing other things leading to a revolution - The Industrial Revolution. Education however in The United Kingdom is not like this - although in my opinion we are treated as livestock.

In the past three years as I have tried to reconstruct a " Pure Republicanism " using a combination of the precedents from the 18c before " The Shotgun Marriage " of Democracy and Republicanism in the latter half of the 18c and the development of Post-Modernist thought in Republicanism over the past fifty years or so one of my concerns has been as to whether it would breed true : does the new model which I propose have predictive value or is it merely an idle day-dream ? The objective has been to present a stripped down version of a Pure Republicanism which is a useful rule of thumb that will establish a tightly-knit and mutually re-enforcing set of moral and ethical associations which will crisply define what is and is not going to be accepted as a " Pure Republicanism." Hence my constant reppetition of the magically transforming formula " Truth, Love, Freedom and Peace will lead to Life & Lies, Hatred, Slavery and War will lead to Death." These bizarre musings are basically my performing what amounts to a series of dress rehearsals in nothing more than my Republican under-pants.

Well at least my mother would have been pleased to know that those are clean under-pants ... now what was the subject again ... ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2853

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I guess that one theme which I was warming up to was how crazy the ideas are that The People Driven Mad by Anxiety will reach for ...



Militant Masonry: Amis de la Vérité, Buonarroti* Masters and French Carbonari (Part 1 of 2) - by Terry Melanson ( a Conspiracy Theorist.)

[ * Filippo Michele Buonarroti, 1761-1837 ( " The First Professional Revolutionist " ) ]

" ... In the midst of Lehning’s thorough outline of the central role Buonarroti played in various secret societies during the period, a short passage caught my attention involving a clandestine nexus of French Carbonarists, Joseph Rey’s ‘L’Union,’ and a particularly revolutionary Masonic Lodge of the Grand Orient: the ‘Amis de la Vérité’ [ A LODGE CALLED ' THE FRIENDS OF TRUTH ' NAMED AFTER THE ORGANISATION WHICH I WANT TO DISCUSS ] ... "

Illuminated Politics

" The name of the lodge was no doubt chosen as an homage to the paramasonic revolutionary club ‘Cercle Social,’ or ‘Confédération Universelle Des Amis de la Vérité’ [ Universal Confederation of the Friends of Truth.] Co-founded by masons Nicolas de Bonneville ( 1760-1828 ) and Claude Fauchet ( 1744-1793 ) in Paris, 1790, this “société fraternelle” had its own printing house that published a short-lived yet influential journal called La Bouche de Fer [ The Mouth of Iron,] where the tradition of revolutionary-as-journalist-agitator originated. James H. Billington characterized the Cercle Social as “nothing less than the prototype of a modern revolutionary movement”; while Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, in 1844, had opined that “the revolutionary movement... began in 1789 in the Cercle Social [ itself.] ” ... The mystic-occult current during the French Revolution, the pervasiveness of mesmerism in particular, has been carefully documented by Robert Darnton. The Cercle Social, Darnton writes, was “ an association of mystic revolutionaries who hoped to establish a Universal Confederation of Friends of the Truth with a masonic organization. The ideology of the Cercle Social derived from a strain of occultism expressed most fully by Restif de la Bretonne," dubbed “ the Rousseau of the gutter.” ...

... Restif’s “baroque imagination,” elaborates Darnton ... [ was ] ... Wild stuff, for sure — typical of the Illuminist strain of thought (Dom Pernety, Saint-Martin, Mesmer, Cagliostro, Lavater, Swedenborg et al.) during the Enlightenment. Restif was also the first to use the word Communist in print in 1785 ( Billington 79; Grandjonc 146,) submitted an appeal for agrarian communalism to the Estates-General in 1789, and by 1793 “ used the term communism as his own for the first time” ( Billington 82.) Hence, the origins of the modern conceptions of Socialism and Communism stem from a particular “ irrational ” undercurrent during the so-called “ Age of Reason.” ... Marx and his materialist acolytes acknowledged the Cercle Social as revolutionary progenitors but had obviously overlooked the fact that La Bouche de Fer subscribers “ read about the animal planets, the transmigration of souls, the primitive religion and language, and, also, universal harmony." ... "



Now that sort of stuff is endlessly diverting for keeping the kinds of obsessives who might otherwise be politically active busy - but idle.

Not that I would not take a break to have a Roman Holiday with Aubrey Hepburn - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sro-0XqlgFQ




[ The gist of which is that ' La Bouche de Fer ' was published in Paris between October 1790 and July 1791 by Nicholas de Bonneville ( editor ) and Claude Fuchet ( ' supervisor ' ) and was the organ of The Social Circle which produced it three times a week then briefly towards the end on a daily basis ( to report the deliberations of ? ) and to promote the ideas of Rousseau's ' The Social Contract ' and the speeches of Condorcet as well as the petitions of the Club des Cordeliers. Subscribers automatically became members of The Social Circle, creating the appearance of there being much greater number of active members than there actually was - but the membership / subscription fee was thirty six livre. [ Which in 1790 must have been a very large sum of money so the membership was probably mostly Aristocratic or the wealthy beorgiousie ... iron-y ? ] The seat of The Social Circle was at No.4, rue du Théâtre-Français and its letter-box was " La Bouche de Fer " and apparently that letter-head depicts what is supposedly a lion's head - into which The People apparently dropped their correspondence of proposed articles and letters to the editor denouncing their literary critics. The Iron Mouth was then itself denounced to someone else and it disappeared on the 28th July 1791.]





The "Mouth of Iron" may have derived its name, sardonically, from Lucius Licinius Crassus's observation about the consul, Domitius, "that it was no wonder that a man who had a beard of brass, also had a mouth of iron and a heart of lead." Others hold that the name comes from a mailbox in the shape of a lion's mouth, located at the headquarters of the Club, at No. 4, rue du Théâtre-Français, where letters, petitions, proposals, denunciations, screeds, and other treatises could be deposited. A third theory is that this name, Mouth of Iron, was the same name as a lodge of freemasons to which Bonneville and Fauchet had once belonged.

In any case, the Mouth of Iron was published in Paris between October 1790 and 28 July 1791, at first, three times per week, then daily, beginning on 22 June 1791. The newsletter contained comments on "The Social Contract" of Jean-Jacques Rousseau, essays by Claude Fauchet, transcripts of speeches by Condorcet, petitions from the Club of the Cordeliers, etc. A subscription cost thirty-six pounds ( livres ) per year, and anyone who subscribed was automatically made a member of the Social Club; so, since casual readers and curiosity-seekers were counted as members, the size of the Club's membership was probably somewhat overstated.

La Bouche de fer was the origin of the famous quote, often attributed to Denis Diderot: "Quand le dernier des rois sera pendu avec les boyaux du dernier prêtre célibataire, le genre humain pourra espérer être heureux." ( "When the last king is hanged with the entrails of the last celibate priest, mankind may hope to be happy." )


The Society of the Friends of Truth ( Amis de la Verité,) also known as the Social Club, was a French revolutionary organization founded in 1790. It was " a mixture of revolutionary political club, the Masonic Lodge, and a literary salon." It also published an influential revolutionary newspaper, the Mouth of Iron.

The Inception of ' Les Amis de la Verité '

The Society of the Friends of Truth was established by Nicholas Bonneville and Claude Fauchet, who announced its birth in the popular press on 21 February 1790. The original purpose of the club was to become a " clearing-house " for correspondence between and among scholars from all over Europe. [ I.E. IT WAS CONCEIVED OF AS ' A REPUBLIC OF LETTERS ' - AS WAS ' Y REWPWBLIC.' ] In the spirit of its founders, the Club wished to cultivate a " public mandate " under which its activities would be governed. Thus, its newsletter, "Mouth of Iron" ( La Bouche de fer ) solicited letters from readers to comment on political affairs and to issue denunciations of counter-revolutionary plots.

The Club was actually launched in the month of October 1790, when the sessions " of the Universal Confederation of the Friends of Truth " at the Cirque du Palais-Royal started. Before an audience that ranged from five thousand to eight thousand people every week, Claude Fauchet, self-appointed " attorney of Truth," lectured on Jean-Jacques Rousseau's 1762 work The Social Contract. The Club also formulated political theories on democratic government, ultimately dismissing direct democracy in favor of a system that resembled a popularly-elected dictatorship that could be dismissed by the citizens whenever its actions became insupportable. The Social Club also advocated steps toward a more equitable distribution of wealth, always with an eye to Rousseau's ideals, but the Club did not support land reform.

The meetings were described in detail in the " Mouth of Iron," which published the proceedings of the Fauchet lectures and discussions and the mail that arrived following them. This publication is important for understanding the genesis of democratic ideas during the French Revolution. The Social Club was also the first revolutionary group to identify itself clearly as a cosmopolitan organization, meaning that its aims superseded national boundaries. [ WHICH IS MORE OR LESS THE SAME PITCH THAT Y REPWBLIC HAS NOW QUEERED.] It made appeals to scholars worldwide, and it produced a polyglot edition of the 1791 Constitution for distribution globally. Its goal was to create a universal republic led by scholars. [ HENCE THE INVITATION IN 1792 TO DAVID WILLIAMS TO JOIN THE COMMITTEE WHICH WAS TO DRAUGHT THE NEW BILL OF RIGHTS FOR THE FRENCH REPUBLIC.]

Membership and Adherents of ' The Society of The Friends of Truth ' and ' The Mouth of Iron.'

Key figures attending the Social Club included Nicholas Bonneville and Claude Fauchet, as well as Sylvain Maréchal, "Gracchus" Babeuf, Goupil de Préfeln, Camille Desmoulins, Bertrand Barère, and the Marquis de Condorcet. About one-hundred-thirty persons were members and attended meetings regularly. ... The meetings were public because the club wanted to show the widest possible audience what discourse in the atmosphere of a literary or philosophical salon might accomplish. ( This explains the choice of the Cirque du Palais-Royal as a meeting-place, rather than some smaller venue like a private home.) Spectators were invited to ask questions, and a resolution was passed at the end of each session. ... In 1791, the membership of the Social Club openly declared themselves Republicans. It then became a meeting place for the Girondists, who rivaled the Jacobins for primacy of republican ideology and action. The Club's political orientation was liberal, and it promoted the ideal of a society composed of small and medium economic producers: craftsmen, farmers, merchants, and entrepreneurs.

From 1791 on, the Club's offices operated a publishing business. It became a center for the dissemination of revolutionary literature, including numerous newspapers, political pamphlets, theatrical works, poetry, posters, etc. A number of seminal authors, Louis-Sébastien Mercier, Nicolas-Edme Rétif de la Bretonne, Bernardin de Saint-Pierre, Jean-Baptiste Lamarck, Condorcet, Jacques Pierre Brissot, and Jean-Marie Roland, were published under the Club's auspices. ... After the fall of the Girondins, the Club dissolved. Fauchet was arrested and executed on 31 October 1793. Bonneville, the printer, resumed activity after 9 Thermidor ( 27 July 1794.) His press tried to resurrect the Social Club, but it never regained its previous audience. In a fragmented state, it continued to exist until Brumaire of year VIII ( November 1800.) By then, ideologues like Daunou, Volney, Daubenton, and Berthollet held center stage. ... Les Amis de la Verité was fondly remembered, and it became a touchstone for the romantics of the nineteenth century, like Charles Nodier and Victor Hugo, but it was also highly esteemed among politicians and social theorists such as Charles Fourier, Saint-Simon, and Karl Marx.


Claude Fauchet ( 22 September 1744 – 31 October 1793 ) - a revolutionary bishop.

" ... He was one of the leaders of the attack on the Bastille, and on 5 August 1789 he delivered an eloquent discourse by way of funeral sermon for the citizens slain on the 14th of July, taking as his text the words of St Paul, " Ye have been called to liberty." ... He blessed the tricolour flag for the National Guard, and in September was elected to the Commune, from which he retired in October 1790. During the next winter he organized within the Palais Royal the Social Club of the Society of the Friends of Truth, presiding over crowded meetings under the self-assumed title of ' procureur general de la vérité.' ... At the king's trial he voted for the appeal to the people and for the penalty of imprisonment. He protested against the execution of Louis XVI in the Journal des Amis ( 26 January 1793 ) ... In July he was imprisoned on the charge of supporting the federalist movement at Caen, and of complicity with Charlotte Corday, whom he had taken to see a sitting of the Convention on her arrival in Paris. Of the second of these charges he was certainly innocent. With the Girondist deputies he was brought before the revolutionary tribunal on the 30th of October, and was guillotined on the following day.


Nicolas de Bonneville ( 13 March 1760 - 9 November 1828 ) - a bookseller, printer, journalist, and writer.

" ... As a young man, he produced German and English translations of the works of Jean le Rond d'Alembert, which financially supported him until his death. In particular, he was known for reproducing the essay on the origins of freemasonry by Thomas Paine, who became his close friend. ... in 1787, the leading Bavarian Illuminist and freemason, Johann Joachim Christoph Bode, is said to have converted the German-speaking Bonneville to a faith that combined esoteric symbolism with radical ideas of popular sovereignty bordering on direct democracy. ... On the eve of the Convention of the Estates General, he began a passionate career in politics by publishing a newspaper, The Tribune of the People. Its proposals included the creation of a militia. ... During the Revolution, he was among the first to propose the storming of the Bastille. ... On 13 October 1790, he founded, with Claude Fauchet, the Society of the Friends of Truth (also known as the Amis de la Verité or the Social Club), whose purpose was to rally the human race to "the doctrine of love, which is the religion of happiness." The club became a forum for revolutionary and egalitarian ideas, attracting Sylvain Maréchal and Gracchus Babeuf into his circle. It was at the time unique for its focus on social, sexual and racial equality. ... In 1791, he founded the " Republican Society," whose members included Nicolas de Condorcet and Manon Roland." ...

... In 1802, Tom Paine left for the United States with Bonneville's wife, Marguerite Brazier (1767–1846), who was a disciple of Bonneville's associate, the radical feminist, Etta Palm d'Aelders, and Brazier's three sons, Benjamin, Louis, and Thomas, of whom Paine was godfather. They settled in New Rochelle, New York on Paine's farm. In his will, Paine left the bulk of his estate to Marguerite who had cared for him until he died in 1809. ... Bonneville played a crucial role in the advent of Romanticism. His own writings and inspirations make him an essential precursor of this literary movement. His translations from German of Goethe, Lessing, and Schiller also laid the groundwork for later French poets would wished to become familiar with the German stage. ... His son, Benjamin Bonneville, undertook a career in the U.S. Army in which he retired as a Brigadier General; his life was immortalized by Washington Irving's " Adventures of Captain Bonneville." ... "

In addition to Fauchet, de Bonneville's the collaborators included

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-S%C3%A9bastien_Mercier

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_de_Condorcet - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas-Edme_R%C3%A9tif

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madame_Roland - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etta_Palm_d%27Aelders

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marguerite_Brazier&action=edit&redlink=1 [ BROKEN LINK : HIS WIFE ]

Also slightly associated with Nicholas de Bonneville : a woman with a remedy for those who spread Lies, Hatred, Enslavement and War -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Corday - who assassinated the Jacobin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Paul_Marat


( Girondists / Brissot / David Williams )
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Y Repwblic Forum Index -> Hanesyddol - Historical All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

© 2007-2008 Informe.com. Get Free Forum Hosting
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
PurplePearl_C 1.02 Theme was programmed by DEVPPL JavaScript Forum
Images were made by DEVPPL Flash Games