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The Peacock Angel and the Gnostics on the Mountain
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dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just catching up on this thread and I would like to remark how both your own and Moritz's remarks have made me smile and think ... I might inquire as to whether the scope of this thread extends also to the criminal acts of others committed by homicidal egotists professing other belief systems - religious, political, scientific etc - even artistic perhaps ?

Apart from David Hockney, has anybody ever committed atrocities in the name of art ? One that comes to mind in a minor way was that guy arrested for stapling live budgerigars to the walls of a civic art gallery - I think that he argued that he had not pierced any living tissue but only the feathers which are dead tissue ... Come to think of it The Easter Rising was a sort of performance art - it was laced with cultural references ... and looking back self-immolation might well qualify e.g. when X's father decided to imitate that Buddhist monk and set fire to himself in the 1960s - likewise this rash of imitators inspired by ISIS but probably having no more contact with them other than by watching tv.

It is not just ISIS imitators of course but those inadequates who in raging against The United Kingdom see in the images broadcast by The BBC of The IRA in which " Republican " is equated with " terrorist " the idea that if they put on a balaclava and bawl out the word " Republican " then they have some sort of licence to perform atrocities - because The BBC have put that idea in their heads ( or rather Thatcher did by suppressing any direct reporting of what Sinn Fein were saying about " The Troubles " - thus leaving Republicanism to be equated with The IRA, The BBC carefully not explaining that The Government in Ireland that Thatcher was simultaneously talking to was in fact The Other Republican Party - Fianna Fail - The Other Half of The Original Sinn Fein ... i.e. Thatcher approved of and was willing to work with the corrupt remnant of The Right Wing Republicans in Ireland - but would not even talk to The Left Wing Republicans in Ireland, albeit equally corrupted in a different direction, not even to save The Lives of The People in Britain - let alone The Lives of The People in Ireland ...

... WHICH I HOLD WAS NOT JUST A REFUSAL TO DO THE JOB OF A POLITICIAN - ESPECIALLY TO LISTEN TO THOSE WE MOST DISAGREE WITH IN ORDER TO PREVENT CIVIL PROTESTS TURNING INTO CIVIL DISORDERS - BUT PART OF WHAT THATCHER DID IN WALES WHICH WAS TO LABEL CIVIL PROTEST AS CIVIL DISORDER TO EXCUSE HER NOT LISTENING TO THE FACTS AND ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHAT THE CONSERVATIVE & UNIONIST PARTY WAS DOING TO US : IS DOING TO US - WILL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO DO TO US ... BECAUSE THEIR DIS-UNITED KINGDOM CAN ULTIMATELY ONLY BE HELD TOGETHER BY THE USE OF FORCE AS NOT-JUSTIFIED BY THE ANTI-POLITICAL NON-PRINCIPLE OF " SOVEREIGNTY." ...

... The People in Wales and The World are intimately inter-dependent and the whole point about politics is that it addresses our relationships : a state apparatus which is designed to coerce relationships which are otherwise consented to is by definition anti-political - the contests between the geographically based " Nation States " have nothing to do with nationality and everything to do with the turf wars of Imperialism : The Nation States are The Feudal States disguised, and are still the property of The Aristocrats descended from almost exactly the same families which ruled The Principality of Wales.
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:00 pm    Post subject: The pope speaks Reply with quote

Isis has seriously considered a terrorist attack on the Vatican. Perhaps it sees Catholicism as its own greatest rival. Or maybe there is no rational thought involved at all.

The Pope was presumably made aware of this. He didn't react. But he had to say something after the butchering of the Catholic priest in Rouen. He stated that we are 'at war', and then said that this has nothing to do with religion, still less Islam.

He said all religions support peace. This shows an interesting relationship with reality.
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:55 pm    Post subject: infidel Reply with quote

The Pope obviously hasn't got the message. He must be a slow learner.

Isis spelt it out in words of one syllable in an article called, 'Why We Hate You and Want to Fight You', It has been published by Wales Online.

After gloating about the hate crime aka 'blessed attack' on a 'sodomite crusader night club', they got down to business:

'We hate you first and foremost because you are unbelievers; you reject the oneness of Allah...claiming he has a son....

We hate you because your secular liberal societies permit the very things that Allah has prohibited while banning many of the things he has permitted which doesn't concern you because [you are Christians and Pagans.]

Because some of you are atheist...you disbelieve in the existence of your Lord and Creator.

For your crimes against Islam

For your crimes against Muslims

For invading our lands.'

You might think the last reason finally shows a bit of horse sense. Not so!

It comes last for a reason. It is very much an afterthought.

Isis explains, 'The fact is, even if you were to stop bombing us, imprisoning us, torturing us and usurping our lands, we would continue to hate you because our primary reason for hating you will not cease to exist until you embrace Islam.'

It is clear beyond doubt that for Isis, it has everything to do with religion. You could say that it is not true religion, but that would be the no true Scotsman fallacy.

Not all Muslims find it necessary to be this intolerant. Perhaps very few of them do.

But this is Isis' interpretation of Islam. Not only is it valid for them, but it is easy to find Koranic verses which support their interpretation.

The Pope is in denial. He is invested in seeing all religions in a positive light at all times. But it is ludicrous to say that we are at war, and then deny the identity of the enemy. This is not a situation where self deceit or deceiving others is going to achieve anything.
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:24 pm    Post subject: Asad Reply with quote

We often hear cynical attitudes about apparently decent, law abiding Muslims who are timid about condemning Islamist atrocities or fail to do so at all. The implication is that they really approve of them although they lack the 'balls' to participate themselves.

Have a heart! Perhaps they would like to speak out but fear for their own lives.

Ironically when Asad Shah, a popular Glaswegian shopkeeper was brutally killed last Easter, we jumped to the conclusion that it was an Islamophobic attack in response to the Brussels bombings. It was a 'religiously motivated' crime but not in the way we thought.

Asad Shah was a 'peaceful and peace loving man' who went out of his way to show respect for those of all faiths. That was his crime in the eyes of his murderer, Sunni Muslim Tanveer Ahmed aged 32.

What's more, Mr Shah was seen as a heretic by Ahmed as he belonged to the Ahmadi sect. Ahmadis do not believe Mohammed was the seal of the prophets ie the last one. They also believe in religious tolerance.

This horrible sectarian crime has deprived Mr Shah's wife of her soulmate. In sentencing Tanveer Ahmed to a minimum of 27 years in prison -why not 30?- Lady Rae remarked that he had shown no remorse for his appalling deed.
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:54 pm    Post subject: norwegian Reply with quote

When a Norwegian-Somali man aged 19 stabbed to death the American wife of a lecturer, and injured several others in Russell Square near the site where the London bus blew up on 7/7, we thought we knew what we were dealing with. But apparently, we were wrong.

It is said that this young guy had mental health problems. His actions had nothing to do with Islamism - at least not in his own view. That did not stop Isis celebrating this perceived terrorist attack 'in the centre of Christendom.'
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:20 pm    Post subject: aleppo Reply with quote

The bombing of Aleppo in recent days has taken out six hospitals and left the city without running water or electricity. This is not to mention the damage done to ordinary civilians by aerial bombardment by barrel bombs and the like.

We just don't know what to hope for. These are rebel attacks on Syria. Assad is a tyrant. Don't we want him to be overthrown? Maybe not at this cost. It is like the aerial bombardment of Coventry or Hamburg in the Second World War. How long is this going to last?
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Moritz



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:27 am    Post subject: Re: Asad Reply with quote

marianneh wrote:
We often hear cynical attitudes about apparently decent, law abiding Muslims who are timid about condemning Islamist atrocities or fail to do so at all. The implication is that they really approve of them although they lack the 'balls' to participate themselves.

Have a heart! Perhaps they would like to speak out but fear for their own lives.

Ironically when Asad Shah, a popular Glaswegian shopkeeper was brutally killed last Easter, we jumped to the conclusion that it was an Islamophobic attack in response to the Brussels bombings. It was a 'religiously motivated' crime but not in the way we thought.

Asad Shah was a 'peaceful and peace loving man' who went out of his way to show respect for those of all faiths. That was his crime in the eyes of his murderer, Sunni Muslim Tanveer Ahmed aged 32.

What's more, Mr Shah was seen as a heretic by Ahmed as he belonged to the Ahmadi sect. Ahmadis do not believe Mohammed was the seal of the prophets ie the last one. They also believe in religious tolerance.

This horrible sectarian crime has deprived Mr Shah's wife of her soulmate. In sentencing Tanveer Ahmed to a minimum of 27 years in prison -why not 30?- Lady Rae remarked that he had shown no remorse for his appalling deed.

No true Scotsman fallacy. Ahmadis count as heretics; from sharia POV, the priority is to murder heretics first and murder whites second.

OMG, I just noticed. Obviously, the Ahmadi sect are named after a prophet named Ahmed and the Grand Inquisitor who murders them hights Ahmed too.

St Thomas ben Joseph is an Anglican saint, the brother of Jesus who doubted. St Thomas Moore, St Thomas Torquemada, St Thomas Aquinas are Papish saints who murdered doubters. St Thomas Wolsey never burnt anyone and is the Anglican saint who yet shall be AMEN.

Karin's dad was Sufi = heretic. When he died, she had to phone a million muslim vicars before she could find one willing to sing the funeral mass.

The point is that Karin is a wishy-washy vegetarian liberal = the doctrine that religious people are NICE people.
She was super dooper surprised that priests refused to bury her Da.
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Moritz



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: norwegian Reply with quote

marianneh wrote:
When a Norwegian-Somali man aged 19 stabbed to death the American wife of a lecturer, and injured several others in Russell Square near the site where the London bus blew up on 7/7, we thought we knew what we were dealing with. But apparently, we were wrong.

It is said that this young guy had mental health problems. His actions had nothing to do with Islamism - at least not in his own view. That did not stop Isis celebrating this perceived terrorist attack 'in the centre of Christendom.'


Waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, I refer the right honourable lady etc etc etc

Most terrorists are "sane"; they want to murder people and very efficiently murder people. You are saying, "Oh no, this terrorist is different because this terrorist is mad.

Political Correctness calls people mad.
They would etc
Peter Sutcliffe, Yorkshire Ripper, defence attorney stands up on his hind legs "All these horrific murders prove that my client is insane = innocent." Well he would etc.

Quote:
We just don't know what to hope for. These are rebel attacks on Syria. Assad is a tyrant. Don't we want him to be overthrown? Maybe not at this cost. It is like the aerial bombardment of Coventry or Hamburg in the Second World War. How long is this going to last?


Oh yes we do. Assad is the anti-terrorist guy. However much he might want to do evil, he is nailed into the role of the goodest guy available.

It will last 40 months: in three months, Corbyn will be re-elected; Blairite MPs etc will refuse to respect his authority; he will summon a free parliament to seize power etc.
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:27 am    Post subject: azar Reply with quote

According to the Iranian writer Azar Nafisi, traditional Muslims think that Sufis are heretics that should be killed. Sufis sound quite cute to me, mystics, gnostics, whirling dervishes - what's not to like?

But this is where we came in. The Roman Catholic Church wasn't too keen on Gnostic Christians - Cathars - either. At least I assume they weren't as they slaughtered every last one of them. I've heard only very recently that Catharism has been revived - I don't know if it in the Langue d'Oc.


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dai



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dafydd - I have been panting with laughter over - " It will last 40 months: in three months, Corbyn will be re-elected; Blairite MPs etc will refuse to respect his authority; he will summon a free parliament to seize power etc."

C'mon - give us some more of this - I really need a good laugh at the mo' !
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:51 pm    Post subject: mad or bad? Reply with quote

It was a bit of a rhetorical question - how long will this go on for? But Moritz is confident of the answer - forty months. Will that be until the end of the current parliament?

Each defence barrister has a responsibility to say whatever will get the client off. Unlike the prosecution barrister, the defence team has no responsibility to society.

Peter Sutcliffe convinced the prison psychiatrists he had a classic case of schizophrenia. His wife Sonia did have schizophrenia, and it would have been easy for him to mimic the symptoms.

The defence thought they had it stitched up. But the prosecution barrister had a surprisingly punchy style of cross examination. He punched the living crap out of Sutcliffe's defence.

The jury rejected the plea of insanity, and he was bundled off to jail. But after a very short while, the warders became convinced he was as mad as a rabid coyote.

So he was transferred to Broadmoor where he may have had a fairly cushy life, although one inmate, jealous of his power on the wing, stabbed him in the eye with a pair of scissors.

As of just this minute, the policy has changed again. It is now believed that he is not mad, at least not any longer. So he is going to be taken back to prison.

Forensic practice makes a sharp distinction between mad and bad, but why couldn't he be both? He enjoyed manipulating people to their detriment while he was in Broadmoor, including his gullible female pen pals and fan base.

During this time, his wife Sonia had a piece of luck equivalent to winning the lottery when she was awarded astronomical libel damages against 'Private Eye.'

What was staggering was how much more she was awarded than the mother who sought damages from Sutcliffe for murdering her daughter. Ian Hislop's comment was, ''If this is justice, I'm a banana.''

As bad as Suutclife looked at the time of the trial, he was much worse. It is suspected that he may have attacked a male taxi driver with a hammer in a murderous attack. But the taxi driver had the best of it.

So his next victim was a weak middle aged man who was a dwarf and a hunchback. It probably then occurred to him that the average woman is shorter and less muscular than the average man. Women would be the perfect victims!

He may well have murdered Wendy Sewell in the unpleasantly labelled 'Bakewell Tart' case, a crime for which Stephen Downing spent many years in prison.

He would have died there had not a tenacious local journalist devoted his life to demonstrating his innocence. It was a notorious miscarriage of justice.

Then there was Olive the cleaning woman with traditional ideas of respectability. She survived but was left with terrible head injuries. She was shunned by her like minded friends who thought she must have a double life as a prostitute.

Marcella Claxton survived but had constant horrendous headaches, 'as if my brain was bursting', and miscarried shortly afterwards.

Sutcliffe probably picked on prostitutes because they were vulnerable. But the police assumed he shared their own distaste for them.

They expressed empathy in a news broadcast: ''You don't like prostitutes. Many people do not. We, the police, will continue to arrest and prosecute prostitutes.''

When he murdered a 16 year old school leaver who worked in the shoe department in a high street store, they said he had 'gone terribly wrong' in killing an 'innocent young girl.' Tabloid headlines blared, 'The First Innocent Victim'.

Then he extended his operations to female undergraduates. A policewoman said in shock that they were 'totally innocent women'!

The solicitor general said that it was tragic that not all the victims were prostitutes. The co-operative of sex workers riposted that it was a tragedy it had not been the solicitor general.

Richard McCan had been a small boy when his mother became Sutcliffe's first known victim. When she didn't come home one night, he and his little sister went looking for her. They passed within yards of where her body lay.

Each time a new victim was found, the tragedy was triggered for him anew. On the worst occasion he was in a schoolfriend's house, when the TV news announced that another prostitute had been found murdered locally.

The friend's mother started shouting, ''Serves her right! I'd kill all these women!''

Unless they were spreading VD, it's unlikely these women were doing any harm except possibly to themselves. Sutcliffe's second confirmed victim Emily Jackson had gone a bit wild after her 14 year old son was killed in a fall from an upstairs window.

If any of them were run by pimps, they were victims of society rather than threats to it. Women were usually underpaid for 'respectable' work at this time.

Soliciting was a criminal offence. A repeat offender would be designated a 'common prostitute' in the eyes of the law. Running a brothel and living on immoral earnings were also illegal. But prostitution itself was legal !

Why did it seem normal and even virtuous to hate these women to the point of thinking they deserved to be brutally killed? Society was still hung up about sex and the women who provided it.

A generation on, the relatives of the victims in the Ipswich murders, felt able to talk fondly of the dead women, and share their memories on TV. That they had been prostitutes made no difference.

Only Richard Littlejohn thought moral standards were slipping because he was the only one who thought they were asking for it. Is Littlejohn mad or bad? There's probably no difference in his case.

It was only 34 years ago. The white natives of Britain might not go in for honour killing much but we were on a continuum with our Latin and Middle Eastern cousins. We did think that certain women deserved to die for having sex - or some of us did.


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Moritz



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Genesis 38: Tamar was the great^9 grandma of King Dafydd.
The story led to she needed to dress up as a prostitute.
What was the prostitute costume?
Veil and burka.

Gen 38:14 ... she covered her face with a vail and wrapped herself ...
15 When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot because she had covered her face.

Many whores are slaves. Police interpret the Law against Slavery as punish the victims and never ever punish the perpetrators.
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:09 am    Post subject: tent Reply with quote

That's interesting, Now Richard Littlejohn whinges that the law doesn't allow him to molest women on the street who wear short skirts and heavy make up. His argument is that they are dressed like 'whores.' Prostitutes do wear a kind of uniform. Their ensembles are ever so slightly more 'obscenely sexual' than average.

But a burqa makes sense too. Maybe you wouldn't want to show your face. In Afghanistan, so many of the women under the shuttlecock burqas have a byline in prostitution. What else can they do to avoid starving? Their licences to practise law and brain surgery have been revoked.

We saw a woman on TV in a burqa. She was shrouded in black but her face wasn't covered in a yashmak. Instead she had a bondage style black mask which looked a bit like a bridle on a horse.

If you're a woman who voluntarily wears a burqa, the chances are that you are obsessed with sex even if it is in a negative way. Why are you so concerned about the possibility of arousing men?

Why do you even think about it? To the pure, aren't all things pure? Dr Sidiqi who wanted to kill Salman Rushdie was on 'Question Time.' He was shouting about how eight and nine year old girls shouldn't be allowed on the streets in short sleeved dresses that also showed their legs.

He was ranting, ''We don't want Muslim girls spreading their legs on the bonnets of cars!'' He sounded like a repressed paedophile - but not repressed enough.

What is considered modest is determined by culture. According to series like 'My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding', Gypsy girls dress in what we would consider a tantalisingly revealing way. But they are also expected to be modest and virginal.

They don't see any paradox. In clearing out junk yesterday, I found a flyer I decided to keep. It was publicising the work of a Gloucestershire artist who enthused about the relationship between the artist and the nude, calling it 'ultimate empathy.'

I looked at the nude model whose form illustrated the flyer, and thought, ''Good God, that's me!'' I did a few life modelling assignments in a village in Gloucestershire when the regular model was not available, and my image has now been plastered all over Stroud!

It was perfectly tasteful, not remotely pornographic. Yet some stupid acquaintances think it is the equivalent of working in a strip joint.

I don't like even soft porn, although I make a distinction between that and tasteful erotica. I used to find 'The Benny Hill Show' depressing.

But simple nudity is just natural. Why are Muslims and Christians such blasphemers that they find unacceptable the bodies that God has given them?

The myth that feminists burnt their bras in protest at a 'Miss World' contest in the early 70s, made them sound absolutely indecent. But it was only about 50 years earlier that bras had been invented.

Wall paintings in ancient Rome show women wearing bikinis. But between the fall of Rome and Napoleon's retreat from Moscow it would have been considered absolutely indecent for a woman to wear any clothes that came between her legs and covered her crotch. Stockings went up only to the thigh.

Women would wear several petticoats. The inner one would be scarlet. Thus menstrual stains would not show up. The Prince Regent and his friends would go round tripping women up in the hope of seeing something interesting.

That was decency then. Now it is called going commando, and is considered very daring.

Some French politicians want to ban the burkini, the Islamic costume that Muslim often wear on the beach. You can't expect a woman in a mini skirt to have concealed explosives attached to her person.

Liz and I watched a woman in a burqa clattering down Queen Street. ''She's wearing high heels though'', I said. ''I know!'' replied Liz.


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject: innocent Reply with quote

Prostitutes are often effectively sex slaves. People who have investigated the subject will often tell you there is no such thing as a 'happy hooker.' I've also heard this denied.

In Victorian times, 'Contagious Diseases Acts' allowed the police to criminalise all women who lived in port or garrison towns. After all, they might be prostitutes giving VD to sailors and troops. So in one case, for instance, they picked up a young woman and took her for a prurient examination.

She screamed in agony as the speculum or whatever it is called, was pushed into her parts. She had been a virgin, and she had now effectively been raped by a metal penis.

In the wake of the scandal and repeals, Victorians became a bit more enlightened than we are if in a maudlin way. They referred to prostitutes as 'unfortunates.'

Clients referred to professional prostitutes as 'gay'. They were gay ladies who would give you a good time.

A cartoon in a Victorian magazine showed a street walker standing under a lamp post in the pelting rain, looking thoroughly browned off. ''Ah Fanny!'' says a passer by, ''How long have you been gay?''

Of course rent boys were also gay. This is how the word became associated with homosexuality.

There have been moves to criminalise clients and especially kerb crawlers but they haven't got very far. It would be more to the point to prosecute the slavers.

One of the few people I've ever heard of who was convicted for pimping was Stephen Ward - and he was innocent!

When Liz was working in Tonbridge, she had a yuppie housemate called James. We were speaking of the Mike Tyson rape case which was then in the news.

James opined that the plaintiff was 'far from innocent.'

i said, ''When you say that she was far from innocent, do you mean that she was not a virgin?'

''Yes!'' said James.

I said that I hadn't been aware it was a crime to have consensual sex. I made an analogy.

If you were kind enough to give away money voluntarily on at least one occasion, that would not set a precedent that would justify a thug in mugging you and taking your money by force, and the same went for sex.

I don't think I made any impression. I tried to share my opinion of James with Liz in Welsh so he would not understand and be offended. James commented that I was 'speaking in a foreign language.'

He had no idea what it was! Kent's not that far from Wales and I had a Welsh accent! James had a very naive, quasi-superstitious view of how the world worked.

It was as if we had come from different galaxies. He was the kind of person who got to be a 'loadsamoney' young professional.


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:41 pm    Post subject: Manbi Reply with quote

In the northern Syrian town of Manbij, a woman dentist who treated male patients was publicly beheaded. Men have had their fingers amputated for smoking.

This was life and death under the Taliban. Men were even sent to be educated in correct Islamic dress codes if their trousers were too long. It is a sign of piety to have scrawny ankles on display.

Manbij has fallen to the liberators. Citizens poured out on to the streets to rejoice wearing skin tight jeans or whatever they felt would sufficiently display their joy and relief.

Men beam as they have their long beards clipped or shaved off. Women are discarding burqas. They look like individual people again.

Embracing the liberators, they say, ''You are our heroes! You are our children!'' This is what liberation looks like.
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Moritz



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Laughing Cool

So far so good. Touch wood, touch iron, touch mustard garlic and salt.[/i]
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:27 pm    Post subject: a Qandeel in the wind Reply with quote

And here is less joyful news. Fouzia Azeem was born on St David's Day 1990 in Balochistan, a beleaguered Pakistani province. She was one of 13 children.

Her parents were poor peasants. Life had little to offer her but backbreaking work, household drudgery and everlasting exploitation.

She worked as a bus hostess. Her parents then required her to marry an unappealing older man when she was 17. It was an abusive marriage so she walked out.

When she auditioned for 'Pakistan Idol', the video went viral on the net. She became a model and an overnight internet superstar.

She had a dignified beauty - think Xena Warrior Princess - but she didn't always behave in a dignified way. When she twerked in an internet video, perhaps it was a bit embarrassing although she was wearing jeans.

She posed for glamour shots. She said she would strip online if the Pakistani cricket team had a successful tour.

In the west, feminists such as Clare Short MP dislike even soft porn. They even consider making uneasy alliances with the likes of Mary Whitehouse.

Perhaps no such dichotomy exists in the east. The glamourpuss Fouzia Azeem saw no contradiction in flaunting everything she had and espousing feminism.

She now called herself Qandeel Baloch, the candle of Balocistan.

Qandeel's posts stood up for women's rights at a time when Pakistan was in danger of becoming a failed state, not sufficiently unlike Afghanistan.

Clerics argued that 'moderate' spousal violence should be permitted. Even attempts to crack down on honour killings were decried as impious.

Qandeel stood up to the clerics in debate. One of them, Mufti Abdul Qavi was suspended from two religious councils after he sufficiently forgot himself as to appear in selfies with Qandeel.

Qandeel had devoted twitter followers. But she also received abuse and death threats. She discussed her fears with police.

Qandeel was now supporting her entire family financially including her brother Waseem. She was staying with her parents over the Eid festival, and persuaded Waseem to join them.

On the night of 15 July 2016 or in the early hours of the next morning, Waseem strangled Qandeel in her bedroom. He did not so much confess to police as brag about what he had done.

He said, ''I am proud of what I did...She was bringing dishonour to our family'' He believed he had earned his place in heaven.

The police have taken the unusual step of prosecuting Waseem themselves. They are afraid that if it was left to the parents, they would 'forgive' ie condone the murder.

The parents have denied that they would do any such thing. Qandeel's father says that he really does want Waseem to be punished and not with a slap on the wrist. He mother agreed, adding that the same went for those who had put him up to it.

This was a euphemism for Mufti Abdul Qavi who is thought to have advised Waseem to do it. I'm happy to say that the cleric has now been arrested.

Pakistan is divided on this issue. Wassem has much support from those who uphold old fashioned morality.

But equally, there have been demonstrations against honour killings. Some even call then disgrace killings. It would be lovely to think that there will now be a crackdown after all.

The 'Guardian' is at the cutting edge of social change. It has condemned 'the dishonourable murder of Qandeel Baloch.'


Last edited by marianneh on Sat May 27, 2017 4:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Moritz



Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Todays Observer has an article about a papish bishop in Spain who infallibly decreed that Domestic Violence is the fault of women not obeying their husbands.

Quote:
Clerics argued that 'moderate' spousal violence should be permitted. Even attempts to crack down on honour killings were decried as impious

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marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:09 am    Post subject: The Islamic catholic church Reply with quote

Didn't I tell you that there was no substantive difference between Catholicism and Islam? Oh...er no. It was you who told me that and I laughed.

When Ayaan Hirsi Ali was a Somali interpreter for Muslim women in refuges, in the Netherlands, there was always a moment of disconnect. The Dutch counsellor would say, ''Don't you have relatives in this country who will support you?''

The Muslim woman would say, ''But they take his side of course!'' The relatives' advice was ''Obey better.''

The Koran actually orders husbands to beat up wives from whom they merely 'fear' rebellion. Cherie Blair has denied this for some reason.

Ali said that Muslim women often refuse to leave abusive marriages because they are afraid of going to hell. Mohammed said that if a woman refused her husband sex on a given night, 'the angels would curse her until the morning.'

Domestic violence is not specifically commanded in the New Testament, but if its misogynistic passages are taken literally, this will be the inevitable result. St Augustine mentioned that the women of Tagaste near Hippo used to complain to his mother St Monica about the domestic abuse they had experienced.

St Monica was fiercely critical not of their violent husbands but of her female friends for not appreciating it.

I would like to have an outburst about the RC Church but I think the Savita thread is a better place for it.
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marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1893

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:44 pm    Post subject: Kazida Reply with quote

Kazida Sultana wasn't driven to extremism because she was floundering academically. Far from it. She was a straight A student.

She looked alert and studious in pictures. She was radicalised on line. She fell for a kind of Utopian idealism, and she believed that Islamic State would be an earthly Utopia.

The teachers at her Bethnal Green School had some concerns. Her parents complain that they did not take sufficient steps to warn them. Kazida was able to destroy the letters that came by snail mail.

She was 16 in February last year when she and two 15 year old school friends took off for Islamic State after stealing the passports of their elder sisters or other relatives. Their images were caught on CCTV as they went through the barriers at airport controls, but it was too late to intercept them.

The British authorities had woken up to the situation now, and asked for help from the countries between here and Islamic State where the plane would be making stops. But the responsible people said the British State did not give them enough warning.

These girls thought they had been very clever. They had outwitted so many people.

But they found out soon enough that it was they who had been the gullible ones. They had fallen for deceitful online grooming. It was as bad as falling into the hands of a paedophile ring if not worse.

Kazida was married off to a Somali American Jihadi warrior on landing. However she felt about him, he was killed the same year.

Kazida thought she would be helping to build the ideal Islamic society. But she was disillusioned soon enough. She kept in touch with her family somehow.

She said, ''I don't have a good feeling. I feel scared.'' Mindful of what had happened to Samra from Austria, she was too frightened to run away. She was also afraid of being detained and prosecuted in Britain if she did return.

Her schoolfriends confirmed that she was killed when a Russian plane bombed a house in Raqqa. Guests on 'Sunday Morning Live' discussed whether we should make it easier for Jihadi brides to come back.

After a debriefing programme similar to denazification, she could have become part of an educational programme, explaining to kids why running off to Syria is not a good idea.

A liberal imam said it was a crazy thing to do. But the most hostile person was Nick Ferarri.

He reluctantly expressed some sympathy, but said he would shed no tears. This was an intelligent girl who could have foreseen what she was doing.

Perhaps he would have felt worse had she been in the class for backward kids. Academic intelligence is not really here or there.

At 16, you don't usually have much experience of the world. You are usually more impressionable than an older person.

You can be very idealistic. You think you can make a difference.

In your teenage years, you will temporarily lose the instinct for self preservation, or at least it will be weakened. Apparently, there are evolutionary advantages in teenagers being adventurous and strikling out on their own.

Kazida's family were from an Islamic background but they were not especially religious. She became intensely religious as so many young people do when they are searching, often futiley, for an identity. Sometimes, when a person who wasn't religious before, becomes very religious, it is a manifestation of an emotional breakdown.

I don't think this is widely enough known. It's not something to see in a positive light unless it is an improvement on their last addiction.


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