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The Strange Case of Ella Whelan
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject: u Reply with quote

There you have it! Ella thinks free speech means being able to say whatever you like, no matter how wrong. This reminds me of a problem people have with Trump.

Politicians have always lied. Bill Clinton may have lied almost all the time. But they paid homage to the truth by trying to make their lies sound believable.

Trump lies even when it is obvious that everyone knows he's lying. Asked for evidence that Obama wire tapped Trump Tower, he says there has to be an inquiry into it. So he has no evidence.

In the post truth world, speech is becoming not free but meaningless. Ella probably doesn't mean what she says about sex education. Perhaps she doesn't 'believe' in what she calls free speech at all.

It's just a puerile game, playing with words. But it's convinced me of one thing. Words are potent. They can harm just as muh as actions. To state the obvious, a campaign of lies and vilification has results in the real world just as actions do.

Words can't be screened off from reality except perhaps in fiction.


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: nemesis for katie Reply with quote

Jack Monroe had to refer constantly to six big ring binders of abuse they had received in the wake of Katie Hopkins' libel. It was horrible and stressful, but now the case is over, they need never look at it again.

Katie Hopkins slung as much mud as possible during the trial. She refused to apologise. The price of displaying what psychologists call 'primitive pride' has been astronomical.

Jack will now throw away the black suit they wore throughout the trial. They say they will go out and get as nissed as a pewt.

Katie Hopkins' counsel argued that Twitter is a lawless Wild West where anything goes. The judge disagreed, ruling there is no such thing as a Twitter outlaw.

Jack said, ''To all those who say I couldn't and I shouldn't, I could and I did.''

Katie Hopkins' very defence tacitly accepted that the accusation was not true, but the argument was that it didn't matter.

After Milo's downfall, the feminist Laurie Penny wrote that he really did hate women. Apart from that he meant almost nothing he said.

He wasn't well recieved in the UK, but went dowm a bomb in the USA where his perversely unpleasant statements were swallowed in an irony free way.

Laurie said his hate speech did encourage the impressionable to go out and persecute the marginalised and the already oppressed. That he didn't believe his own propaganda was no consolation to those he harmed. If anything it was an added aggravation.

Ella and the other dickheads at Spiked owe their vacuous championing of their own misinterpretation of free speech to another libel case. Their former magazine, hilariously titled Living Marxism, folded after they libelled ITN.

We discussed much further back in this thread that LM denied in the 90s that there were any concentration camps in ex-Yugolavia, or any massacres either. They said that ITN had made it up.

Some people would have learnt from their mistakes. You might think the staff at LM would have learnt not to make wild accusations that they had plucked out of their collective arses.

Not they. The lesson they took away was that laws on libel and hate speech should be abolished. What a shower of childish sulky irresponsible prats!

I found some of Douglas Murray's strictures on Islamism amusing in their refreshing bluntness. But I part company with him on many issues. I defintely don't agree with him now that Jack Monroe is a useless waste of space. It's a pity someone didn't take Katie Hopkins down long ago.


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:29 pm    Post subject: chappaquiddick Reply with quote

Lucidity and cogency in speech do not appear to be among Ella's talents. If she was capable of clarity of thought, she would have a conflict of interests about whom to root for in watching the just released film, 'Denial.'

Her free speech mania is rooted in a libel trial about genocide denial. So presumably she would be cheering on David Irving when he came out with the self confessedly 'tasteless' outburst that more women died in Edward Kennedy's car at Chapaquiddick than in Nazi concentration camps. She would have supported his fact free assertion that there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz, even though they are still there, and you can go and look at them!

He achieved Trumpian confusion in saying that not only did the holocaust not happen but Hitler was oblivious to it! But what would not compute for Ella is that it was not that nasty woman Deborah Lipstadt who was taking him to court. It was he who was doing her for libel.

Even under the UK's strict libel laws, he was never likely to win. But I can't help feeling that he made a faux pas in constantly addressing the judge as 'mein Fuhrer.' 'My lord' would have been sufficient.


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: owen Reply with quote

I don't feel so good since reading that Owen Jones has had to give up social media after receiving threats of murder and torture from 'frothing keyboard warriors'.

Some of the abuse comes from the left, but much of it is from extreme right wing fanatics. He no longer thinks the net is such a good place to express ideas.

He will still post retweets and the like, but he won't express his own views. He has been deprived of his freedom of speech by the kind of people Ella defends.


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dai



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes ... maybe ... no ... perhaps ... one of the questions thrown up by the internet is as to whether this " post-truth " landscape has been caused by the world wide web or has merely revealed what already existed ... e.g. when we used to sit around Dafydd's / Moritz's bookstore ' Galahads ' our conversation was potentially both a lot more serious thirty odd years ago and also on occasions a lot more savage ... but that was as often as not directly to each other in scorning each other's views so there was either an immediate retort or an immediate apology if we had casually hurt each other ... the majority of our publishing consisted of reporting such things as " ... and what he had to say about Sally was ... " so arguably we occasionally dealt in private slander ... When we wrote things for paper publications we typically faced an editor - as this journalist was supposed to have - but now we do not have an editor e.g. I am loathed to censor anybody and aside from striking off Mel's surname I have not edited you nor do I want to censor anything anybody says except if they are endangering the continued existence of this bulletin board by publishing pornography, violence or sporting fixtures which encourage children to read " Y Repwblic " ... but are laws like slander and libel appropriate in this situation when the internet is merely making visible human behaviour that has been going on for centuries in private conversations and personal correspondence ?

Talking of private conversations I may have found a venue suitable for that project of recreating Saturday afternoons in Galahads over a coffee : close to Central Station so it will be accessible for others to travel to - and you ?

http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=1180
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: lucidity Reply with quote

There's now a coffee shop serendipitously called Galahads? On Saturday mornings now I generally go to Welsh groups in Cwmbran or Newport on alternate weeks. I've been doing this religously for some months.

I could get the bus from there to Cardiff afterwards but would have to return not long after 5pm as Abergavenny is very poorly served by public transport.

One thing I want to ask about is this site being blocked by Cardiff libraries and if you know anything about the reason. If it's something you or Dafydd have said, I'll leave you to sort it out or not as you prefer.

But I've just been imagining that it might be that I encouraged my sons to read one thread on it; I don't remember which one. So they'd be aware of its existence and might have mentioned it to their Serb or Croatian relatives.

It may be that some remarks I made about the culture or traits of the natives of ex-Yuoslavia have been held to be intolerant. I didn't mean them in a deep way, I didn't mean they were all bad, and it was a lead up to saying we were just as bad. If this is the problem, feel free to modify or eliminate them.

I'm thinking of a post under the 'When Did You Start Beating Your Wife?' thread. I suppose it could be read as racist although that's not how I meant it.

I'm not the only one to make disobliging comments about ex-Yugoslavia. For instance in 'Between Two Rivers' Dorothy Al Kakaji writes 'Yugoslavia under Tito was a dark, threatening place where everyone seemed surly and unhelpful. Even the bread was dark grey and so hard it nearly broke you teeth.'

While conceding the beauty of Sarajevo, she reminisced about 'ugly looking characters'who were 'swarthy, unshaven, unsmiling and silent.' She said that later she understood why they behaved as they did, but at the time it just confirmed her 'impression of Yugoslavia as the most unpleasant country we had passed through.'

Perhaps the reason was the rigour of life under Tito. Presumably the library stocks this book and also guide books which warn you that the citizens of Croatia are not likely to take a spontaneous interest in you, and that Serbs pride themselves on rudeness and lateness.

I suppose it is legitimate to note certain cultural traits which are observable and common enough to be accepted as facts. What would be racist is not to see that everyone is an individual.

Not everyone will conform to these off putting bad manners,and even the ones that do may be lovely people underneath. Conversely, in Ireland and in much of the Muslim world you will be charmed by the friendliness, hospitality and gregariousness, but these are just cultural window dressing. People are not always going to be lovely underneath.


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: words! words! Reply with quote

Ella Whelan admits that Katie Hopkins is 'abhorrent' which she certainly is, but still thinks it is preferable for her to be allowed to tell lies about Jack Monroe with impunity than for the latter to be able to use the law in their own defence. I wonder what Ella's problem is that she feels the need to support people whom even she admits are hateful and in the wrong.

It seems to me that Katie Hopkins is on a continuum with Ella herself. Ella is abhorrent too; she just isn't as good at it. Brendon O' Neil at Spiked predictably says that it is a dark day for what he calls freedom of speech that Jack won. What about a glorious day for truthful speech?

Katie Hopkins admitted that what she had said was not true but apparently, that is of no significance in the post truth world. She also instructed her counsel to throw as much mud as possible at Jack. Media outlets have accused Jack of persuing a crusade against Hopkins, as if it was a form of persecution of the poor lying bully to stand up for themself.

I wouldn't be too bothered if someone had said I had scrawled graffiti on the M of D office if not actually on the cenotaph or that I approved of it. But I'm not an upstandng and thoroughly decent character like Jack who had relatives who fought in the Falklands.

It's not just the allegation itself. They were later deluged with hateful comments online. It had a big impact on their life. They were going to marry, but the relationship with their fiance broke up under stress.

We read of a young school leaver who worked for a chef. She was driven to sucide by verbal bullying at work. As I mentioned on the 'Jac o' the North' thread, when one of her colleagues was asked why he felt it necessary to be so unpleasant, he shrugged and said, ''Freedom of Speech.''

It is not legitimate to glorify bullying in this way. He was not a noble and brave white Knight standing up for our fundamental freedoms. He was a cowardly nob. Much the same could be said of Brendan, Ella and Katie.

People often denigrate victims of bullies by saying they are weak. But Ella even disapproves of their being strong and fighting back. She doesn't think they have a right to speak. The last thing she is, is a freedom of speech advocate.


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject: slav Reply with quote

To demonstrate that we are not prejudiced against Slavs in this house, I should add that my partner was very accomodating to Slava, a Ukrainian workman who came round to the house today.

He let Slava exorcise the house, and also exorcise the demons that were causing my parnter's backache. It didn't do any good. He also checked out on the net a Californian tele evangelist that Slava recommended.

I must be getting like Richard Dawkins in my old age. I think it's appalling that people literally believe in demons in this day and age, and I don't think it should be humoured or enocouraged. It would be quite different if it was play acting or if people spoke of demons metaphorically eg ''My partner has bipolar disorder and agarophobia, but I'm little help as I'm too busy battling my own demons.''


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:05 am    Post subject: tom tom Reply with quote

I watched a sixth form student make a case for a hard Brexit on 'The Big Questions'. Like many intelligent adolescents, he was articulate and verbally agile, but totally unrealistic.

I thought, ''Never mind; when he leaves school and encouters the real world, his intelligence will be honed. He could be a valuable citizen one day.'' But then, his name came up on the screen. He was not a schoolboy but Tom Slater, the deputy editor of 'Spiked.'

Like Ella and his other colleagues, he complained that it was patronising to say that people are gullible. Those who voted 'Leave' based on lies, are to be respected.

Since it is Spiked's article of faith that we must all put up with abuse and contempt, this is a very contradictory part of their repertoire, one that they make no attempt to reconcile with their general philosophy.

Ian Dunt, in his book, 'Brexit, where the hell do we go from here?' or it might have been 'What the hell happens now?', says that Brexit doesn't have to be a disaster, but a hard Brexit would be.

But formerly staid politicians have been overcome by a kind of hysterical nationalism. Michael Gove was told that a number of countries, organisations and think tanks opposed Brexit. I remember that they included the Bank of England.

He replied that people were tired of experts telling them what was what. We can be fairly confident that Gove couldn't be accused of being an expert on anything.

He said he expected 80% of children to get above average results in SATS tests. When asked how this would be mathematically possible, he said, ''By getting better all the time.''

Theresa May now says that no deal will be better than a bad deal. But no deal would be the worst possible deal.

Ian Dunt discusses if the UK will split up. He has sections on Scotland and Ireland but, quite rightly, none on Wales as we voted Brexit, though less solidy so than the English did.

Both Dunt and I kept forgetting about Gibraltar which voted to remain, but in a separate referendum voted overwhelmingly not to be subsumed into Spain.

Now newspapers are reporting that Theresa May is prepared to go to war over the rock. It will be the Falklands of her premiership. I thought, 'Steady on; is this entirely wise?'


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject: trill Reply with quote

While the Sun has been giving us jingoistic bravado about blowing up senors, Trump has dropped a bomb, not on North Korea or even Spain or Mexico but on Syria without warning.

We had just had credible reports of nerve gas attacks which killed civilians, presumably but not obviously by the Assad team.

Nigel Farage said the US response would have Trump's admirers scratching their heads. Whatever Assad's sins, he was secular.

Milo tweeted that there comes a point when every boy is bitterly disappointed by his 'Daddy.'

Katie Hopkins tweeted: ''Who stole my president?''

I don't approve myself, but I'm surpised that this shower are disappointed.


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: marchons Reply with quote

Ann Widdecombe thinks the Women's march on Washington was 'pathetic.' Ella Whelan thinks it was 'pointless.'

Disapproval from people like this is the equivalent of encouragement. If they don't approve, you can be sure it is the right thing to do.

I've been soft on Ann Widdecombe although I agree with her about very little. My idea was that at least she said what she thought.

Perhaps I was wrong to see her as an honest broker. Not everyone who has met her, would agree that she is.

The autistic son of the human rights lawyer Geoffrey Robertson and the novelist Kathy Lethe was introduced to Ann Widdecombe at a social gathering.

Like many autistic people, he has a very literal mind. He said, ''My mum says you're two faced, but if you have two faces, why are you wearing this one which is so old and ugly?''


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: hessay Reply with quote

George Hessay was a 'funny and kind' 15 year old boy who was 'the class joker.' It looks as if he has been driven to suicde by cruel comments on 'Sayat.me app. British schools have now been warned about this lethal site.
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dai



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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://sayat.me

" Please Apologize. We are temporarily closed for maintenance reasons."
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: nicholas allen Reply with quote

That's interesting. Nicholas Allen has been convicted of manslaughter for driving Justene Reece to suicide by a relentless barrage of trolling. She left a note saying that she had run out of fight.

It's terrible that this has happened. But it's tremendous that the criminal legal system is now taking the menace of trolling seriously. Ella Whealn would have us believe that verbal or electronic abuse is the equivalent of doing nothing at all. No, it is not. It is extremely serious, and can amount to homicide.


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject: heather heyer Reply with quote

I don't think the alt right really think words are of no significance. For they were extremely agitated to hear that the mere names of parks in the old Confederacy were to be changed to something less racially inflammatory.

In the ensuing riots and punch ups, one white nationalist reversed his car to gain momentum and then ploughed into a group of counter demonstrators, killing Heather Heyer, a woman in her early 30s who had fought against racism all her life, and injuring many others.

Donald Trump was in a difficult situation. He had come to power with the endorsement of the Ku Klux Klan, the alt right and avowedly Nazi organisations. He could not bring himself to condemn the racist agitators bigly. Instead, he made a moral equivalence with anti racist demonstrators, speaking of hatred and bigotry on both sides.


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: enlighten Reply with quote

One in four teenagers have been targeted by bullies online. When it happens to my sons, they take it on the chin or give as good as they get. They are so confident. They don't care what inadequate dickheads think of them.

But most of us are more sensitive. Alison Saunders thinks that social media should educate, entertain and enlighten. But often it is used to bully, intimidate and harrass.

From now on, the CPS will be taking persecution online seriously. The UK will bring in tough new guidelines. I hope that in a century's time, people will look back and see that Ella and Milo were on the wrong side of history. Or better still, that these emotionally stunted menaces will have fallen into well deserved obscurity, forgotten and unmourned.


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: rage Reply with quote

Ella Whelan has been 'raging' that we mut have Brexit in its entirety.

She says that verbal protests about Brexit by 'remoaners' must stop. This overblown moron is no friend of freedom of speech. She's just a mentally confused gobshite.


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marianneh



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: tele Reply with quote

It is a hundred years and six minutes since some women were allowed to vote in the UK. Theresa May has said women should not be put off a political career by abuse online nor, impliedly, the awful fate of Jo Cox.

On 'The Big Questions', on Sunday, the idiot-in-chief Ella Whelan indicated that old time feminism had been worthwhile but present day feminism was holding women back.Women were brimming with confidence but feminism told them that they were victims and turned them into wusses.

For instance it convinced them that there is this mythical thing called the pay gap. Perhaps she can explain to women at the BBC why this is something they are just hallucinating.

Feminism became one of the snarl words that defined which way voters would jump in the Brexit referendum. By and large, remainers think it's a good thing and Brexiteers see it as horrendous.

One might blame contrarians like Ella for confusing us about the definition of words. We can do so with considerable justice. But some self styled feminists are no friends to the cause they claim to support.

For instance I have become aware that a former friend's idea of feminism is to have promiscuous intercourse with most of the men in a small town in order to give them genital warts. She thinks it is a price worth paying to have genital warts herself.

You can call this feminism if you like but it is a bit cheeky to do so. It is just dignifying your crazy and irresponsible compulsive behaviour, as if it was based on principle instead of being a symptom of a disordered personality.

Similarly, you could go round stealing from everyone, and call it Communism in action.You could say that you don't approve of private property. But there would be not a little self deception in the smug statement.

Feminism is great as a subsection of the fight for human equality. But it is not enough. We have to fight for all oppressed people. I would suggest that cripples take a leaf out of the Suffragettes' book and smash windows and so on until they are treated as citizens and not untermenschen.

Furthermore, we can't expect that female politicians will be anything special just by virtue of their being female. Apparently, Margaret Thatcher wanted South Africa to be a whites only country. She allegedly wanted Viatnamese boat people to be sunk before they reached Singapore.

Theresa May is a disgrace, confused and out of her depth, like a visitor from another galaxy, lacking 'human empathy.' She voted for all the 'persecution of cripples' measures. Neither she nor Thatcher have or had what are seen as traditional feminine virtues such as compassion or emotional intelligence.

I was hoping she would soon be toppled as prime minister, but then I heard that the favourite to replace her is Jacob Rees-Mogg. Be careful what you wish for!
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Moritz



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you were better off with hanging to separate patriots from moaners.

Quote:
Feminism became one of the snarl words that defined which way voters would jump in the Brexit referendum. By and large, remainers think it's a good thing and Brexiteers see it as horrendous. Feminism became one of the snarl words that defined which way voters would jump in the Brexit referendum. By and large, remainers think it's a good thing and Brexiteers see it as horrendous.


Adam is a moaner and anti-feminist. I want equality for women and equality for Brits.
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marianneh



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject: sn Reply with quote

My good friend Liz Jones from university is a feminist and also a Brexiteer. She must be the latter as she is now a prominent member of Ukip and has been snapped, embracing Nigel Farage while wearing a blissed out expression.

But you and Liz are very unusual people. Adam is, unfortunately incoherent and slightly insane. Of course I support equality for women but what really exercises me now is the rights of cripples. It is this that keeps me awake at night.

You say we will still be able to appeal to the European Court of Human Rights after Brexit as this is not Belarus. But I have since read that it is not yet established whether we will be able to or not.Perhaps Brexit is part of a huge plot to bring in fascism and separate us from our human rights.

If you want to call yourself a patriot, go ahead. As a supporter of disability rights, I feel no loyalty to the fascist country we are now trapped in. With whom do you want Brits to be equal Moritz? With the serfs in the dictatorship of Belarus?


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