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dai



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:29 pm    Post subject: Palestine & Israel Reply with quote

http://www.justpeaceforpalestine.org/

A newish organisation
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dai



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.wac-maan.org.il/en/

http://www.btselem.org/

http://www.hamoked.org/home.aspx

http://www.seruv.org.il/english/default.asp

http://www.stoptorture.org.il/en/publications

http://www.acri.org.il/eng

http://www.phr.org.il/default.asp?PageID=4

http://electronicintifada.net/new.shtml

http://www.newprofile.org/english/
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dai



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=37

I USUALLY WRITE MY BITTER ANGRY STUFF ABOUT ISRAEL ON THAT TOPIC THREAD - NOT THAT I CAN NOT FEEL SIMILAR FEELINGS ABOUT SOME PALESTINIANS, BUT I HOLD JEWISH PEOPLE TO A HIGHER STANDARD OF ACCOUNT FOR NOT CONFRONTING THE EVIL THAT IS ZIONISM WHICH JUST CONTAMINATES EVERYTHING THAT IT TOUCHES ...

... I generally avoid public meetings on the Palestine / Israel issue because I get so angry : it is the potent mix of religion and politics, and the subject of many fantasies - I just want to slap people out of the latter, whether they are pro-war or pro-peace for being pro-pesterously stupid as to think that the complexities of this war are easily sorted. I am often impressed by the patience of Palestinians - but then they are speakers selected for being calm and reasonable - and the optimism of Israelis ( that they can sort this out.)

I don't think that the thing can now be sorted out, I think that the end game is clear : if not actual genocide then something neighouring it in that the Palestinians will be wiped out of history, having no land or being in a minority where a majority claim another identity. Still, I went to a meeting recently and heard people enthuse over the new shoots of activism that might reconcile Jew and Arab and bring peace, and came away with a lot of potential websites to explore but even more depressed to think about the issue - that these are a handful of people when tens of thousands are needed ... I respond better to this kind of humour -

[img]http://www.jewishwomenwatching.com/actions/jewishspeak/jewishspeak.pdf[/img]
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=37 - Israel and Palestine

As mentioned above there is another thread running in which I am working out my neuroses about the Israelis ... whereas I have been feeling for some time that I ought to cultivate some neuroses about the Palestinians too ... just to be even handed ... so a while ago I thought that I would use this thread for complaining about various Palestinians e.g. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abbas

http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=400 - Palestine & Israel
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having been caught up for a while in a private issue on the other thread ( see above ) I think that it is time to put in some effort here - partly because nobody can not be an authority on this subject but everybody can be concerned ... and my concern is that Netanyahu is planning for a one-state solution - which is why Obama finally withdrew support from Israel at the UN Security Council in order to try and distance The USA from what is about to happen in ... well I think that it will happen in 2017 ... the one-state solution will be to reduce everything to the shared single state of murderous mayhem for Israeli and Palestinian alike ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HxvNZisaB8E

The Empire Files: Inside Palestine’s Refugee Camps

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=meYYzUUl_vA

Why Palestine Matters [ IT IS A BIT WOW GOSH BUT THEY ARE WITNESSES ]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-sGSRLrE-is

The Empire Files: Home Demolitions for Illegal Settlements Surging

Published on 31 Oct 2016

The demolition of Palestinian homes for Israeli settlements reached a ten-year high in 2016. While this activity led by the fanatical settler movement is illegal under international law, it is completely aided and abetted by the Israeli government.

With hundreds on notice to be evicted and their homes destroyed, Abby Martin goes on-the-ground throughout the West Bank investigating this dire human rights situation. She speaks to residents living under regular settler attacks from encroaching settlements and outposts illegal even under Israeli law, and sees first-hand how this crisis is worsening.
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dai



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact is that it is difficult to follow any situation as complicated as the Common Aggro-Cultural Policy towards the scattering of The Seeds of Evil ... even The People in The Situation who can speak with more authority than anybody else given their experiences have a partial if not sectarian view of it.

Where then to seek a better over-view of The Situation ... how do you judge the value of information given by those you have have difficulty talking to - who are on the other side ... those you want to restore The Rule of Law to ... and even where both sides talk of Peace how can they enter into peace talks ... perhaps we should talk of fetching buckets of steam and providing sky-hooks to remedy situations which we have nothing to do with ...

... perhaps we should treat The People in Misery as merely info-tainment ... ?

THIS HAPPENED YESTERDAY BUT WAS NOT WIDELY REPORTED : SINISTER ?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/fatah-hamas-form-unity-government-170118031339203.html

Fatah and Hamas to form unity government

Agreement reached after three days of talks in Moscow paving the way for the formation of a new National Council.

[ JUST AFTER MOSCOW GOT INVOLVED IN SYRIA : MORE GEOPOLITICS ... HOW MANY SYRIANS DIED ? ]

The Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority has agreed to form a unity government with rival organisation Hamas, Al Jazeera has learned. ... The agreement was reached late on Tuesday after a three-day negotiation in the Russian capital, Moscow. ... The two organisations will form a new National Council, which will include Palestinians in exile and hold elections.
... "Today the conditions for [such an initiative] are better than ever," Azzam al-Ahmad, a senior Fatah official, said. ... The deal also includes the Islamic Jihad group, which had not been involved in negotiations for a long time.

[ SO ... PUTIN HAS JUST MURDERED THOUSANDS IN THE NAME OF FIGHTING JIHADIS IN SYRIA BUT NOW ... ]

'Russian approach'

... In an interview with Al Jazeera, Khaled Elgindy, a senior Brookings Institute fellow and former adviser on peace negotiations, said it is still not clear how different the latest agreement is to previous deals. ... Elgindy said the "most important factor" prompting the unity agreement is the leadership change in Washington DC. ... "President Abbas may be looking to shore up his domestic position, and to insulate himself from what he sees maybe as a very hostile administration coming into Washington," he said. ... Al Jazeera's Natasha Ghoneim, reporting from Moscow, said the agreement in Russia signals the Palestinians "looking away" from the United States, which has been involved in the peace process for decades. ... "Historically, peace discussions have been dominated by the US. They are looking for a different approach, and Russia certainly offered a different approach," she said. ...
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dai



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am still not paying enough attention to the Palestinian side of things - but Karma Nabulsi probably is and anybody could have voted for her ...

https://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/2017/mar/01/vote-for-higher-educations-most-inspiring-leader-2017

Higher education’s most inspiring leader shortlist 2017

The Guardian Higher Education Network is delighted to reveal the shortlist for the Inspiring Leader 2017 award.

This award honours a leader who has brought out the best in their team and achieved exceptional results. They champion innovation and collaboration, deliver real change, and inspire the higher education community.

The five names below were selected by our expert judging panel but the winner will be chosen by you, the readers.

Voting is now closed. The winner will be announced at the Guardian University Awards ceremony in London on 29 March.

Janet Beer, vice-chancellor, University of Liverpool
Leszek Borysiewicz, vice-chancellor, University of Cambridge
Martin Eve, professor of literature, Birkbeck University
Chris Husbands, vice-chancellor, Sheffield Hallam University

Karma Nabulsi, professor of politics, University of Oxford

Karma lectures on social movements and philosophies of war and peace to students in the department of politics and international relations at the University of Oxford, where she is currently director of undergraduate studies. She is an Oxford UCU equalities officer, and a member of the staff BME network. She recently directed “The Palestinian Revolution”, a bilingual Arabic-English digital teaching resource exploring Palestinian revolutionary thought and practice in the 50s, 60s and 70s. Sponsored by the British Academy, the endeavour was a collaboration with universities, institutes and museums across the global south specialising in anti-colonial history.

What the judges say: “Without her patience, dedication and commitment the experiences of numerous students at Oxford and elsewhere would have been immeasurably poorer. She avoids all self-celebration, but it is hard to imagine a more worthy recipient.”
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=4905#4905

It can be difficult to decide which side of the mess we are arguing about.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THIS PAGE ON HAMAS' CHARTER HAS NOT BEEN CHANGED YET SO I WILL COPY IT QUICKLY BECAUSE IT IS ABOUT TO CHANGE ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant

Hamas Covenant

The Hamas Covenant also known as Hamas Charter, refers to the Charter of the Hamas, issued on 18 August 1988, outlining the movement founding identity, stand, and aims.[1]

The Charter identified Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine and declares its members to be Muslims who "fear God and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors." The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[2] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel.[3][4] It emphasizes the importance of jihad, stating in article 13, "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."[5] The charter also states that Hamas is humanistic, and tolerant of other religions as long as they "stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region".[6] The Charter adds that "renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion" of Islam.[1]

In 2008, the Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, stated that Hamas would agree to accept a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders, and to offer a long-term truce with Israel.[7] In contrast to this, Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar stated that any talk of the 1967 lines is "just a phase" until Hamas has a chance to "regain the land...even if we [Hamas] have to do so inch by inch."[8] Other Hamas leaders, including Ismail Haniyah and Khaled Meshaal have also stated repeatedly that "Palestine – from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea, from its north to its south – is our land, our right, and our homeland. There will be no relinquishing or forsaking even an inch or small part of it,"[9] and that "we shall not relinquish the Islamic waqf on the land of Palestine, and Jerusalem shall not be divided into Western and Eastern Jerusalem. Jerusalem is a single united [city], and Palestine stretches from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, and from Naqoura [Rosh Ha-Niqra] to Umm Al-Rashrash [Eilat] in the south."[10][11]
In 2009 interviews with the BBC, Tony Blair claimed that Hamas does not accept the existence of Israel and continues to pursue its objectives through terror and violence; Sir Jeremy Greenstock however argued that Hamas has not adopted its charter as part of its political program since it won the Palestinian legislative election, 2006.[12] Instead it has moved to a more secular stance.[13]
In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."[14] Hamas has moved away from its charter since it decided to run candidates for office.[13]



Contents [hide]
1 Background
2 Relevance of the Charter in the 21st century
3 Content 3.1 Statements about Israel

4 Anti-Semitism claims
5 See also
6 References
7 External links


Background[edit]

In 1987, twenty years after the 1967 war, the First Intifada (1987–1993) began.[15] In the late 1980s, the PLO sought a negotiated solution with Israel in the form of a two-state solution. This was not acceptable to Hamas, the Palestinian wing of the Muslim Brotherhood,[16] and the covenant was written to bridge the ideological gap between the PLO and Muslim Brotherhood.[17] According to Hamas's Deputy Foreign Minister Dr. Ahmed Yousef, the Charter "was ratified during the unique circumstances of the Uprising in 1988 as a necessary framework for dealing with a relentless occupation".[18]

While the PLO was nationalistic, it was more secular in nature, while Hamas subscribed to a neo-Salafi jihadi theology and nationalism.[16] Hamas was a shift from the Muslim Brotherhood's more universal Islamic vision to a focus on Palestinian nationalism and a strategy of armed struggle, or violent jihad.[17] Its political goals were identical to those of the PLO's charter and was essentially an armed struggle to retrieve the entire land of Palestine as an Islamic waqf.[17]

Relevance of the Charter in the 21st century[edit]

Dr. Ahmed Yousef, an adviser to Ismail Haniyeh (the senior political leader of Hamas) claimed that Hamas has changed its views with time since the charter was issued in 1988.[18] In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."[14]

In 2006, Hamas proposed government programme, which stated that "the question of recognizing Israel is not the jurisdiction of one faction, nor the government, but a decision for the Palestinian people."[19][20] However many remain sceptical of Hamas's new stance, and view it as a ploy to hide its true agenda, "but it is equally true that the “new” discourse of diluted religious content—to say nothing of the movement’s increasing pragmatism and flexibility in the political domain—reflects genuine and cumulative changes within Hamas."[13]

Content[edit]
Article 1 describes Hamas as an Islamic Resistance Movement with an ideological programme of Islam.[21]
Article 2 of Hamas' Charter defines Hamas as a "universal movement" and "one of the branches of the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine".[17][21][22][23]
Article 3 the Movement consists of "Muslims who have given their allegiance to Allah".[21]
Article 4 the Movement "welcomes every Muslim who embraces its faith, ideology, follows its programme, keeps its secrets, and wants to belong to its ranks and carry out the duty."[21]
Article 5 Demonstrates its Salafist roots and connections to the Muslim brotherhood. [21]
Article 6 Hamas is uniquely Palestinian,[24] and "strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned."[17][21]
Article 7 describes Hamas as "one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders" and links the movement to the followers of the religious and nationalist hero Izz ad-Din al-Qassam.[21][23]
Article 8 The Hamas document reiterates the Muslim Brotherhood's slogan of "Allah is its goal, the Prophet is the model, the Qur'an its constitution, jihad its path, and death for the sake of Allah its most sublime belief."[17][21]
Article 9 adapts Muslim Brotherhood's vision to connect the Palestinian crisis with the Islamic solution and advocates "fighting against the false, defeating it and vanquishing it so that justice could prevail".[21]
Article 11 Palestine is sacred (waqf) for all Muslims for all time, and it cannot be relinquished by anyone.[21]
Article 12 affirms that "Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed" .[21]
Article 13 There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer.[21]
Article 14 The liberation of Palestine is the personal duty of every Palestinian.[21]
Article 15 "The day that enemies usurp part of Muslim land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Muslim". It states the history of crusades into Muslim lands and says the "Palestinian problem is a religious problem".[21]
Article 16 Describes how to go about educating future generations.[21]
Article 20 Calls for action "by the people as a single body" against "a vicious enemy which acts in a way similar to Nazism, making no differentiation between man and woman, between children and old people".[21]
Article 22 Makes sweeping claims about Jewish influence and power. [21][25]
Article 28 Conspiracy charges against Israel and the whole of the Jewish people: "Israel, Judaism and Jews".[21][25]
Article 31 Describes Hamas as "a humanistic movement", which "takes care of human rights and is guided by Islamic tolerance when dealing with the followers of other religions". "Under the wing of Islam", it is possible for Islam, Christianity and Judaism "to coexist in peace and quiet with each other" provided that members of other religions do not dispute the sovereignty of Islam in the region.[21]
Article 32 Hamas condemns as co-plotters the “imperialistic powers”.[25] References The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.[21][26]

Statements about Israel[edit]

The Preamble to the Charter states: ″Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam invalidates it, just as it invalidated others before it″.

Anti-Semitism claims[edit]

According to Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League, "The Hamas credo is not just anti-Israel, but profoundly anti-Semitic with racism at its core. The Hamas Charter reads like a modern-day Mein Kampf." According to the charter, Jewish people "have only negative traits and are presented as planning to take over the world."[27] The charter claims that the Jews deserve God's/Allah's enmity and wrath because they received the Scriptures but violated its sacred texts, disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew their own prophets.[28] It quotes a saying of Muhammad from a hadith:


"The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.' Only the Gharkad tree would not do that, because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)[29]

The charter goes further in detailing how Jihad against the Jews is a duty. "The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters."[30]

The charter contains references to anti-Semitic canards, such as the assertion that through shrewd manipulation of imperial countries and secret societies, Jews were behind a wide range of events and disasters going as far back in history as the French Revolution. The document also quotes Islamic religious texts to provide justification for fighting against and killing the Jews, without distinction of whether they are in Israel or elsewhere.[31] It presents the Arab–Israeli conflict as an inherently irreconcilable struggle between Jews and Muslims, and Judaism and Islam, adding that the only way to engage in this struggle between "truth and falsehood" is through Islam and by means of jihad, until victory or martyrdom.

See also[edit]
Contemporary imprints of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion
Fatah–Hamas conflict
Human rights in the Palestinian territories
Islamic fundamentalism
List of political parties in the State of Palestine
Palestinian political violence

References[edit]

1.^ Jump up to: a b "Hamas Covenant 1988: The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement". The Avalon Project: Documents in Law, History and Diplomacy. Yale Law School. August 18, 1988. Retrieved February 15, 2009.
2.Jump up ^ "Israeli Official Says Hamas Has Made Abbas Irrelevant" The New York Times, February 27, 2006
3.Jump up ^ "Covenant of Hamas". Retrieved February 24, 2009.
4.Jump up ^ The Palestinian Hamas By Shaul Mishal, Avraham Sela. Retrieved February 9, 2009.
5.Jump up ^ "Hamas Covenant 1988". Yale Law School Avalon Project. Retrieved 7 September 2014. "[part of Article 13 of the Covenant] There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
6.Jump up ^ Article 31 of the Hamas Charter (1988) Yale Law School: The Avalon Project
7.Jump up ^ Haniyeh: Hamas willing to accept Palestinian state with 1967 borders Haaretz (09-11-08)Retrieved 27th May 2011
8.Jump up ^ "Hamas Leader Mahmoud Al-Zahhar Slams PA President Abbas for "Aimless Kangaroo-Like" Political Gymnastics and Says: We Will Not Relinquish Any Piece of Palestinian Land". Memri TV. Retrieved 22 July 2014.
9.Jump up ^ "Hamas Leader Khaled Mash'al: We Will Not Relinquish an Inch of Palestine, from the River to the Sea". Memri TV. Retrieved 22 July 2014.
10.Jump up ^ "Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniya, in Visit to Tunisia: We Shall Not Relinquish Palestine, from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River". Memri TV. Retrieved 22 July 2014.
11.Jump up ^ "Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniya Reaffirms Hamas' Commitment to Armed Resistance and Says: We Will Liberate Palestine in Its Entirety, from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River". Memri TV. Retrieved 22 July 2014.
12.Jump up ^ "BBC Today Programme interview with Sir Jeremy Greenstock, January 12, 2009". BBC News. January 12, 2009. Retrieved May 27, 2010.
13.^ Jump up to: a b c A “New Hamas” through Its New Documents. Khaled Hroub, Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol 35, no. 1 (Summer 2006), p. 6. On web.archive.org
14.^ Jump up to: a b Mazin Qumsiyeh on the History and Practice Of Nonviolent Palestinian Resistance Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May–June 2010, pp. 40-42
15.Jump up ^ 1987:First Intifada May 6, 2008BBC
16.^ Jump up to: a b The PLO Charters of 1964 and 1968 and the Hamas Charter of 1988 By Philipp Holtmann
17.^ Jump up to: a b c d e f The Palestinian Hamas: vision, violence, and coexistence Shaul Mishal, Avraham Sela]
18.^ Jump up to: a b Hamas Charter: Vision, Fact and Fiction Palestine Chronicle (23/1/2011)Retrieved 27th may 2011
19.Jump up ^ Hamas should hold a vote on recognizing Israel CBS Business Retrieved 31st may 2011[dead link]
20.Jump up ^ Israel's Likud, Hamas square off over future relations(March 12, 2006)Retrieved 31st May 2011
21.^ Jump up to: a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t Hamas Covenant 1988, Avalon.
22.Jump up ^ HAMAS Between Violence and Pragmatism By Marc A. Walther
23.^ Jump up to: a b pg 4 American Jewish Congress Yehudit Barsky HAMAS- The Islamic Resistance Movement of Palestine
24.Jump up ^ Hamas Covenant 1988 Retrieved 27th May 2011
25.^ Jump up to: a b c Reform Judaism Online The 'Protocols' of Hamas Steven Leonard Jacobs - Winter 2007
26.Jump up ^ Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs Analysis of the Hamas Charter January 8, 2006
27.Jump up ^ [1] Anti-Semitism at Core of Hamas Charter. ADL Retrieved 27th May 2011 Archived May 25, 2011, at the Wayback Machine.
28.Jump up ^ The Anti-Semitism of Hamas by Meir Litvak in Islamophobia and anti-Semitism pg 87
29.Jump up ^ Hamas Covenant 1988 Avalon project Retrieved 27th May 2011
30.Jump up ^ The Avalon Project: Hamas Covenant 1988
31.Jump up ^ Hamas Charter (1988) Retrieved 27th May 2011

External links[edit]
An English translation of the Covenant

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NOW PERSONALLY I AM SHOCKED TO KNOW THAT SOME FELLOW JEWISH-ISH-ISH PEOPLE APPROVE OF HAMAS ... I DO NOT ... BUT THEY EXIST AND HAVE TO BE ACCEPTED AS FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS, HURTING AND ANGRY.
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http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/03/israel-hamas-palestinian-authority-charter-api.html

What will Hamas charter change mean for Israel?

In the coming weeks, Hamas is due to unveil the draft of a revised charter that softens the movement's positions on the conflict with Israel. Talking to the London-based newspaper Asharq al-Awsat, Hamas sources said that the salient changes to the document include recognition of the 1967 borders and replacement of the term “Jews,” described as enemies, with the term “occupiers.” The draft will probably also include an announcement about severing ties with the Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas' original charter underscores the affinity between the movement and the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, known for its rejection of any diplomatic process with Israel. Nonetheless, the new charter, like the original document, will not include recognition of the State of Israel and will rule out any concession on the right of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes.

... [ INTERESTING - A LENGTHY ARTICLE ] ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/world/middleeast/hamas-gaza-israel-jews.html?_r=0

New Hamas Charter Would Name ‘Occupiers,’ Not ‘Jews,’ as the Enemy

By IAN FISHER and MAJD AL WAHEIDIMARCH 9, 2017

CAIRO — Hamas, the Palestinian Islamist group that has governed the Gaza Strip for a decade, is drafting a new platform to present a more pragmatic and cooperative face to the world, Hamas officials confirmed on Thursday.

The document would represent a departure from the group’s contentious 1988 charter, in which it promised to “obliterate” Israel and characterized its struggle as specifically against Jews. The new document defines Hamas’s enemies as “occupiers.”

“It means that we don’t fight Jews because they are Jews,” said Taher el-Nounou, a Hamas spokesman in Gaza. “Our struggle is only against those who occupied our lands.”

The new document would accept borders of the territory captured by Israel in the 1967 war as the basis for a Palestinian state. It would not recognize Israel, however, nor would it give up future claims to all of what Hamas considers Palestinian lands.

Mr. Nounou said the document, the result of four years of work, is not yet final and has not yet been approved by Hamas’s governing bodies. Nor are its contents wholly new, even though they seem now to carry both practical and symbolic weight, particularly in Hamas’s relations with Egypt.

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http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Hamas-official-Groups-new-charter-to-address-antisemitic-language-479654

Hamas official: Group's new charter to address antisemitic language

By Daniel J. Roth / January 26, 2017 12:15

Pressed on a time-frame for the release of the supposed revised charter, the senior Hamas official did not specify an exact date.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.palestinecampaign.org/events/

That lists two events but there is another joint meeting of the UNA and PSC 7pm Temple of Peace 11th July 2017 ehere the speaker will be Iyad Burnat

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Tz7KFMiTA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c_YF-WbjM9M

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q_93nOqwmhU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i1wEszQYEzg

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge8VFQbO3Uo

... Where does one people end and another begin - or the issue ? ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-JVORszwdNA
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://gonnawatch.com/movie/7vNY4kdR-it-s-better-to-jump.html


2013 RELEASE DATE
It's Better To Jump
Genres: Documentary, History
Country: United State
Director: Gina Angelone, Mouna Stewart
Duration: 75 min
Year: 2013

There is a centuries-old seawall in the ancient port of Akka, located on Israel's northern coast. Today, Akka is a modern city inhabited by Muslims, Christians, Jews, and Baha'i, but its history goes all the way back to rule of the Egyptian Pharaohs. Young people dare to stand atop the 40' one-meter thick block structure and risk their fate by jumping into the roiling sea. This perilous tradition has continued for many generations, and has become a rite of passage for the children of Akka. "It's Better to Jump" is about the ancient walled city of Akka as it undergoes harsh economic pressures and vast social change. The film focuses on the aspirations and concerns of the Palestinian inhabitants who call the Old City home...
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you possibly know already I am pre-occupied with the other side of the situation -

http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=6765#6765

- and neglecting those who are already occupied by the situation ... but I am paying attention ( not enough ) ... I was trying to explain my sensibilities to an American yesterday and that nice short email turned into a nasty rambling monster ... I think that I was ill with Cyclothymia : I poked and pulled at it for over sixteen hours ... In the middle of writing this I took it into my head to explain The Welsh National Anthem - " Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau " - which although Welsh in origin was adopted and adapted by several other minor Celtic fringe nations and regions as their anthem also : it was arguably an international anthem being sung across Europe and the Americas several decades before the Internationale was written and became popular ... Most versions sound as if they are nostalgically praising the identity of their nation and land - but - it may be significant as to when this was written i.e. not so long after the 1848 revolutions ... in which the idea of " Nation " played a starring role - either in proposing to unite several little principalities into one nation-state because they could conduct their political life through a shared a language and culture ( e.g. Germany and Italy ) - or in proposing to break up overblown empires which had a dysfunctional political life because they did not have a shared language and culture ( e.g. Belgium and Hungary.)

After the failure of the 1848 revolutions it can be argued that political factionalism began to steadily rise with the previous dialogue within European Republicanism splitting into two antagonist camps ( at least ) which might be construed as " Left V Right " or " Internationalism V Nationalism " but which in any case became a slanging match not a constructive dialectical dialogue - and anyway as far as most governments were concerned both versions were subversive because both advocated political reform if not actual revolution ... In Wales the Nationalists campaigning for Home Rule if not Independence were often explicitly Pacifist - some out of principled conviction and some because of the consequences of what had happened in Wales prior to 1848 in which year rumours of a potential insurrection were dealt with by the radical political leaders with a series of public demonstrations affirming in public that they repudiated the use of violence. What they were discussing in private may have been different but these protestations paved the way to political reforms which led to universal sufferage. Culturally Wales' violent history of political struggle became distanced into the past and romanticised as the Nationalists shaped the idea of " The Welsh Nation " being advocates of Peace and pious opponents of War ... which came to the fore in 1916 ...

... Elsewhere in Europe the idea of " The Nation " struggling against " The Empire " was very much associated with violent insurrection and the idea of being a citizen became bound up with conscription into the military as a patriotic duty in the Nationalist Republicanisms and these in turn spawned prejudices against if not openly advocated the suppression of all of those who did not conform with what " The Nation " was conceived to be ... As a consequence prejudices against " The Jews " gained a new respectability and often with supposedly modern Darwinian explanations attached. This is what then spawned Zionism : it was a reaction to these Nationalist Republicanisms but in exactly the same terms - " O.K. - we are not going to be accepted by you as citizens in your Nation State in this Land ... so we will conceive of ourselves as a Nation and go off and create a State for ourselves - all we need is some Land without a People for our People without a Land ... " ... But - the Zionists were actually in a minority amongst most Jews who in fact subscribed more to Left Wing politics and scoffed at their Nationalist Republicanism because they subscribed to Left Wing ideologies derived from Internationalist Republicanism - they were concerned about " The Working Class " struggling against " The Ruling Class." ...

... After The Second World War when many Left Wing survivors of The Shoah arrived in The British Mandate where there were Right Wing settlers the two halves of " Jewish " Republicanism ( which is an oxymoron ) were forced into conversations by their predicament and thus in founding their Nation Sate in 1948 The Zionists were forced into a series of compromises with The Bundists which resulted in a fairly good constitution - on paper ... What actually happened thereafter is not going to be debated here : I am supposed to be writing about this song ... But my view of The People in Palestine and The People in Israel is that they have been so shaped by their prolonged conflict that they are so similar as to be impossible for outsiders to tell them apart : Israelis and Palestinians may feel their differences intensely but when stripped of their flags etc ( and I am not denying what has happened or ignoring what The People in Palestine are going through ) and everything to do with identity they subscribe to exactly the same morals and ethics ...

... " I want to live in a country where there is Peace and Justice and which is celebrated for its motherhood and apple pie and it will be called Israel ! " - " I want to live in a country where there is Peace and Justice and which is celebrated for its motherhood and apple pie and it will be called - Palestine ! " ... It seems to me to be very much like Northern Ireland ... I do not mean just the physical infrastructure of checkpoints and walls and the sheer amount of paperwork involved in conducting the war against The Palestinians etc ( which is why I get so angry about this somehow all being justified by or at least associated with Judaism : this is Militarism.) ... I do not mean the political manipulations and economic coercions used to pursue the ultimate objectives of The State of ( Ersatz ) Israel ( which is most probably an entirely secret aganda = " The Closed Conspiracy " which is ultimately devoid of all morals and ethics and has no objectives.) ... I mean the whole " Blood and Soil " sentimentality which Zionists share with Nazis : this is the legacy of " The Springtime of The Nations " in 1848 after which Republicanism in Europe - indeed more or less everywhere - collapsed in the face these non-political cults which use ballots and bullets.

... " I mean the whole " Blood and Soil " sentimentality which Zionists share with Nazis " ... You do not like that remark ? ... A lovely lady who would occasionally betray the ( real - not made up : I am not that fool Jonathan Arkush who pretends that inadvertant gaffs are anti-semitic ) attitudes which she was indoctrinated into as a child who was brought up in Germany when The Nazis seized control of The State and subverted The Rule of Law ( demonstrating how thin the paper is upon which political constitutions are written - unfortunately they really do have to be written in the blood of the martyrs willing to defend them if they are to be useful.) ... Did that sentence make sense ? ... Anyhow when she was in the BDM she had a wonderful time and everybody was nice to her and Uncle Adolf was loving ... although he did require her to be stoic about the loss of her boyfriend ... and her parents and ... but then after all : we are all in this together - are we not ? - in this " Nation " thing ... What is yours is mine - and what is mine is also mine - unless I do not want it - in which case I will make it yours - but if both of us want it or both of us do not want it ... what then ? ...

[ I HOPE THAT MY AUDIENCE REALISE THAT THIS IS A SKETCHY RANT ]

... I like to think about ways in which people can share in symbols but I am wary of how these progress from being given a tin badge to buying the T shirt to affixing the bumper sticker to using this to plead that you had already advertised your objections to pedestrian crossings to the victim ... Singing together is something that many people enjoy and when a song is widely known and loved that will bring people together and give them a shared sense of identity ... with that song ... but surely nothing else ? ... But that is the case with national anthems : they can be very emotive ... one minute you are singing about the rockets' red glare and the bombs bursting in air and in the blink of an eye you have been volunteered for Vietnam and told that you are now a patriot and can officially kill people ... Welsh people are patriotic in the entirely appropriate way : yes - they love their symbols and sports teams etc but they are not merely passive consumers and vicarious viewers but actively celebrate and create their identities ... and it is plural : we all conform proudly to our tradition of declaring that we are a nation of non-conformists ... we all love this song ... but some love it differently ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzBq0n8dxFQ - John Redwood singing the National Anthem ( Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau )

The following is from my ridiculously long email to the American ... I got up this morning and started to test the scan of the lines against the melody and I realised that I may now be in danger of completely messing it up ... I ought to have done this on paper because it would have recorded the reasoning behind the decisions which I took : in writing this directly into an email I discarded phrases which I ought to have recorded just in case I was making the wrong decisions ...

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[ A half-posted pre-postscript ... this song is now getting out of hand : it is a good idea to be neither too clever nor too precious about poetry but to get the job done quickly, to enjoy the time out and then move on again. The following has become overworked : this is neither an evolution of the idea nor a devolution, certainly not a revolution - it is now just a volution.]

I have had a nice idea for a joke running in the back of my head for the past few weeks but it has not come to sufficient fruition ... it hinges on the idea that I could pass off " translations " of various national anthems and people might like the sentiments of them all - ?


PERHAPS MY ISRAELI FRIENDS COULD SING THIS VERSE ...

[ repeat the phrase " The Land " - do not use " Our Land " - the first verse repeats it once ] [ PUT IN BOLD AND INSERT THE CHORUSES ]

Ancient home of my fathers : you are dear unto me !


Ancient home of our fathers : you are dear unto me !

Ancient home of our families : you are dear unto me ! [ GET RID OF THE PATRIARCHY AND DO NOT SUBSTITUTE MATRIARCHY ]

Ancient home of our families - so dear unto me !


This land of poets and singers we made famous for thee :

This land of poets and singers who made famous for thee :


The Land of poets and singers who made famous for thee :


Your virtuous warriors who were patriots so brave -


Our virtuous warriors who were patriots so brave -

Our virtuous warriors who were patriots brave -

Our virtuous peoples who were patriots so brave - GET RID OF THE MILITARISM

Our virtuous families who were patriots so brave - KEEP TO A SIMPLE AND CONSISTANT THEME


For our freedom their lives' blood - they gave ! [ DISCARD : GIVE " THE FREEDOM " TO " THE LAND " = HUMAN V PROPERTY RIGHTS ]

For our freedoms their lives' blood - they gave !

For your freedoms their lives' blood - they gave ! ... PERHAPS NOT FREEDOM BUT ... DEFENCES ? ... DEWALLS ? ... DERAILINGS ? ...

For your freedom their lives' blood - they gave !


... AND MY WELSH FRIENDS COULD SING THIS VERSE ...

[ repeat the phrase " The Land " - do not use " Our Land " - the second verse repeats it once ]


Our land of old mountains - this minstrel's paradise !

The Land of old mountains - this minstrel's paradise !

The Land of old mountains - this minstrels' paradise !

The Land of old mountains - the minstrels' paradise !

The Land of high mountains - the minstrels' paradise !

The Land of holy mountains - the minstrels' paradise !

Your valleys and steep slopes are so fair to my eyes :

Your valleys and steep slopes are so fair to our eyes :

Through my love for our country I will soon charm-ed be -

Through this love for our country we will soon charm-ed be -

Through our love for this country we will soon charm-ed be -

Through our love for this country we will soon at peace be -

By those streams and these rivers - that sea ! [ " SCANNING ACROSS THE SCENERY " ]

By these streams and those rivers - that sea ! [ LOOKING DOWN FROM MOUNTAIN = STREAMS, RIVERS, SEA

By those streams and these rivers - the sea !


... AND MY PALESTINIAN FRIENDS COULD SING THIS ...

[ repeat the phrase " The Land " - do not use " Our Land " - if you use " The Muse " the third verse repeats it once ]

If even our enemies steal this land beneath our feet !

If even our enemies steal The Land beneath our feet !

If even our enemies take this land beneath our feet !


These voices of her peoples will not declare defeat : - THIS ORIGINAL CHOICE MAY STILL BE BETTER ? EMPHASISE " WILL NOT " ?

These voices of her peoples won't declare their defeat :

These voices of her peoples will not declare their defeat : KEEP IT AS " PEOPLES " NOT " PEOPLE " PROGRESS FROM NAT >> INTERNAT


These voices of her families will not declare defeat :

These voices of her families won't declare their defeat :


Our muse can not be silenced by any traitor's hand -

The Land can not be silenced by any traitor's hand -


Whilst this anthem still unites us - we stand !


... AND EVERYBODY COULD JOIN IN THE CHORUS ...

Land ! - Land ! - We will still plead for - The Land !

Whilst the sea remains a wall to our pure beloved land -

Whilst the sea remains a wall to our pure beloved muse -

Oh ! - May all of our voices - endure !

Oh ! - May all of our voices - refuse ! [ SHOUT " REFUSE ! " - LAST MINUTE IDEA : " REFUSE DEFEAT " INSTEAD OF " ENDURE DEFEAT " ]

... mmm ... FOUR DAYS OF PRODDING KEYBOARDS ... SEVERAL WEEKS OF AMUSEMENT ... AND GETTING WORSE ...

[ BEGIN THE SONG WITH A CHORUS USING - " ENDURE ! " - AND END IT WITH A LAST CHORUS USING - " REFUSE ! " - ? ]

[ HEN WLAD FY NHADAU's CHORUS RHYMES 1-GWLAD 2-BAU 3-PARHAU ... abjure, assure, ensure, insure, procure, secure ... (peace) choose, (damn) jews, (ask) whose ... abuse, accuse, amuse, confuse, defuse, diffuse, enthuse, excuse, infuse, misuse, peruse, reuse, suffuse, transfuse, fake news ... HEN WLAD FY NHADAU's CHORUS RHYMES 1-GWLAD 2-BAU 3-PARHAU ... ]

... TO THIS FAMOUSLY EASY TO LEARN MELODY ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TMS-AbQ308 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfACo_z2GQU

... THE BRETONS USE BRETON WORDS BUT THE TUNE IS THE SAME - " GLAN RHONDDA " - " BANKS OF ( THE RIVER ) RHONDDA " ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y_M4Nl3bIw - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwpLORbOT1E

... IF YOU CAN FIND TALENTED LONE SINGERS THESE ANTHEMS FROM THE 19C INTERNATIONALIST CAMPAIGNS ARE ELECTRIFYING ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzckoZ3v_gQ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bro_Gozh_ma_Zado%C3%B9

... THE CORNISH USE CORNISH WORDS BUT HISTORICALLY BEFORE " BRO GOTH AGAN TASOW " THEY HAD ADOPTED " TRELAWNY " ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MMAGMEwYCQ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bro_Goth_Agan_Tasow

... THE PATAGONIAN WELSH ANTHEM IS A 19c REWORKING OF " HEN WLAD FY NHADAU " CALLED " GWLAD NEWYDD Y CYMRY " ...

( no video found ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_Wladfa#Anthem - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_Wlad_Fy_Nhadau#Lyrics_2

I suspect that my right wing friends are going to be picky about the ways in which I have translated it because it is very precious ...

... but that melody is a gift both to Wales and The World and is to be shared - lighting one candle from another increases The Light ...

... I chewed over various translations then used dictionaries, the google translator and my imagination but it is true to the spirit of it ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_Wlad_Fy_Nhadau

... The following has the music manuscript attached : note that in the 16c the Welsh language was finally utterly stripped of any legal status in a deliberate bid to erase the separate existence of the native Welsh identity after centuries of progressive conquests which had already stripped them of their freedom of movement and then their right to own land before they finally embarked upon a desperate revolt led by Owain Glyndwr when in 1399 the usurper Henry IV started stealing the remaining lands of their previously docile ancestral leaders to reward his supporters. ... The outcome of sixteen years of warfare was not just defeat but " The Thirty Three Laws " which it took until 1624 to repeal despite the fact that there were MPs from Wales sitting in Westminster for nearly a hundred years before that because they were too few to be able to bargain with the majority of MPs from England ... The wealthier Welsh gravitated to London and ceased to be able to speak Welsh and so left the language's legacies in their libraries and even their largest mansions to rot whilst they recklessly raised their rents driving the remaining Welsh speakers into poverty and thus into rebellion at which point - very luckily for the survival of the language - the Republicans in London where Rousseau was all the rage started to take an interest in the surviving manuscripts which might be found to document the primitive customs of those peoples who had no histories ... To their bewilderment they discovered that the supposedly ignoble Welsh savages next door were not only literate but also corresponding with their Breton counterparts about how to escape from the kingdoms of Britain and France by seeking to cooperate with other Republicans in Europe ... I guess that I am now way off the beaten track ... in the 19c frustrated Republicans used their native languages and cultures politically and publicly singing any anthem or waving any flag except " God Save The Queen " and The Union Flag was defined as Treason Felony.

http://www.nationalanthems.info/wal.htm

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My ex ex ex ex ... must have been bored and lonely so rang me in order to ruin my day ... I stopped answering the phone to hear her lecturing me then slamming the phone down - again - and again - hell : I am not well ... ... ... So for a distraction I dipped into some news websites and read this blog which mildly irritated me : on the one hand I can accept that we all have our opinions ... I am generally ridiculously over-opinionated but I do not take myself too seriously and I can accept that I am sort of not as clever or educated as many are ... but I find myself to be perplexed - and it happens so often in so many situations - that so many clever and educated people use their agile minds to not only barricade themselves within an entrenched position but to spend time researching their stances ... and it is always so difficult to reason with such clever educated people in comparison to those who are not because the latter will actually listen ... ... ... and if you just wait a while and do not pursue it by argument ... ... ... the next time that the subject comes up they will have changed their minds - even deny that they ever thought differently ... how are people to ever emerge from behind their barricades and come out of their trenches if every time that they put themselves in view they are sniped at ? ... Ugh - yes : I know - guilty ... But that is why I advocate Y Faner Wen - The White Flag - as Y Repwblic's banner : it is the flag of parley not surrender. ... mmm ... Better still : think of that Christmas Day in the trenches in World War One when the outraged officers on both sides found their troops exchanging presents and playing football matches in no-man's-land - it went on for several days and eventually their governments ended up threatening to shoot their own soldiers for insubordination in order to get their war going again ... you will not make it as far as no-man's-land if the sniping does not cease - and you should go there with a gift ... not a gun !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpqVblMPRB4 - A Sign Of Friendship In The Midst Of War I THE CHRISTMAS TRUCE 1914

I felt the urge to parley ... not that I am taking his blog too seriously ... he is o.k. - but I think that this was what made me react : the thing which I am trying to write into the translation of the song which is giving " rights " to the land ( i.e. a piece of property mortgaged to The Banking System ) and fighting for its " freedom " ( i.e. The State and who controls it behind its constitutional facade ) and thus thinking that human beings - Israeli or Palestinian - are merely tools for this end : serfs entailed with The Land of The Proprietors ... which is not a problem exclusive to Israel-Palestine ... oh - yeah : what did I react to ? - "A prerequisite for peace is that we stop denying the right of the other to exist – to define itself as a people with rights to sovereignty in this land." - Sovereignty is the principle of being entitled to act outside of The Law and thus it contradicts The Rule of Law : it was defined as the right to make arbitrary political decisions within certain constitutional theories invented in 16c : it does not confer property rights ... so what Yossi is saying is that unless The Palestinians accept the theft of their property in The Land then The Israelis will not accept their right to exist ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_University_of_Jerusalem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yossi_Klein_Halevi

IN THE FOLLOWING LECTURE YOSSI HAS PUT A DIFFERENT SPIN UPON THE SAME KIND OF IDEA THAT I WAS REACHING FOR IN MY ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF " HEN WLAD FY NHADAU " - HE REPORTS BEING ASKED BY A FRIEND AS TO WHY THEY ARE ARGUING OVER TO WHOM THE LAND BELONGS WHEN EVENTUALLY THEY WILL BOTH BELONG TO THE LAND I.E. BE DEAD AND BURIED IN IT ... THE REASON WHY I ARGUE FROM 16c REPUBLICANISM THAT SOVEREIGNTY DOES NOT CONFER PROPERTY RIGHTS IS BECAUSE THIS POLITICAL IDEA WAS CREATED WITHIN A RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGY IN WHICH SOVEREIGNTY BELONGED SOLELY TO GOD BUT WAS GRANTED TO VARIOUS KINGS AND PRINCES BY THE PAPACY UPON CONDITION THAT THEY WERE OBEDIENT TO GOD'S LAWS AS DECIDED IN THE ROTA WHICH WAS THE HIGHEST INTERNATIONAL COURT IN CATHOLIC CHRISTENDOM WHO COULD DECLARE THEM TO BE IN BREACH OF THEIR CONTRACTS AND EXCOMMUNICATE THEM AND ALL OF THOSE WHO SUPPORTED THEM ... THE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE TO DO THIS WAS OF COURSE BASED UPON THE COVENANT MADE BETWEEN GOD AND MOSES WHICH DEFINED THE CONDITIONS UPON WHICH THE ISRAELITES WERE TO OCCUPY THE PROMISED LAND WHICH BELONGED TO A GOD WHO OWNS THE LAND WHICH OWNS THE PEOPLE WHO OWN A GOD WHO OWNS THE LAND WHICH OWNS THE PEOPLE WHO OWN A GOD WHO OWNS THE LAND WHICH OWNS THE PEOPLE WHO OWN A GOD WHO OWNS THE LAND WHICH OWNS THE PEOPLE WHO OWN A GOD WHO OWNS THE LAND WHICH OWNS THE PEOPLE WHO OWN A GOD WHO OWNS THE LAND WHICH OWNS THE PEOPLE WHO OWN A GOD ... - " OWN " = " AFFIRM " = " CONFESS " = " ADMIT " = " IDENTIFY " - " ACCEPT " - ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF6Lia69DG8 - Yossi Klein Halevi: Why Jews and Muslims in America Must Talk about Israel

[ EVERYONE'S PRIVILEGE TO SEND EMAILS & EVERYONE'S RIGHT TO NOT REPLY TO THEM : I TEND TO ONLY WRITE TO MINISTERS NOW ]

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/dear-raja-i-want-to-be-your-neighbor-not-your-occupier/

Dear Yossi

I have just seen your blog post. I have much the same problem sitting on the other end of the spectrum. You can dismiss the rambling post above it and look at my wrestling to both stay true to the sentiments of the song whilst also giving it a twist. Think of yourself standing with to Raja and both of you sing it together or you take turns in singing it to each other : what will your rendition of the song mean to you and what will it mean to him and vice versa - ?

http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=6768#6768

----- Forwarded message -----

From: [ AN AUTOMATIC MESSAGE - FROM YOSSI'S SECRETARY - OR ASSISTANT ]
To: David B Lawrence
Sent: Wednesday, 29 August 2018, 19:53:14 GMT+1
Subject: Medical leave/not checking email regularly

Thank you for being in touch. I am on medical leave through August. I will be checking email from time to time. Unless your email is related to a current booking for the fall, it may take me some time to reply. Thank you in advance for your patience.

Yossi Halevi's fall tour is fully booked, but I'll be happy to discuss future tours or possible fall openings due to cancellations, etc.

If you are looking to connect with MK Michael Oren, please be in touch with Shalom Kleid at [ AN EMAIL ADDRESS IN ISRAEL ]


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Yossi looks promising but his concept of a " Jewish " sovereignty looks suspect ...

http://www.yossikleinhalevi.com/interfaith

https://hartman.org.il/Blogs_View.asp?Article_Id=1174&Cat_Id=430&Cat_Type=Blogs

A Troubling Tale of Jewish-Muslim Relations - 21.07.2013 , by Yossi Klein Halevi

" ... My confrontation with the Jewish zealot was also a philosophical argument – not only an obvious clash over radically different perceptions of Jewish ethics, but over the responsibilities imposed by Jewish sovereignty. ... "


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Well ... I started to prod at it again - and I think that I just have to choose a version which I like and forget the fancy idea about Palestinians and Israelis being able to sing this together and mutually experiencing the poignant recognition that they could be united in their love for The Land yet they have been divided against each other by their jealousy for The Land : if they accepted that they belonged to The Land instead of each striving to make The Land belong to themselves they might at least be reconciled to each other in that. I do not think that the Israelis and Palestinians stripped of those things which identify their national differences can be distinguished one from the other by those not intimately acquainted with them because they have been mutually shaped by their extremely personal conflict into mirror images of each other : they really are The One People of One God of One Land ... and their shared experiences are intelligible only to each other ... so as their supporters let us be well behaved and sing them our songs and not disgrace our teams by invading the pitch or stealing the ball : our role is to stick to booing and cheering each foul and every goal ... but of course it still remains our duty as loyal fans of either team to loudly explain the rules of the game to either the ####### linesmen or the ####### referee ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzckoZ3v_gQ - Nolwenn Leroy chante " Le Bro Gozh Ma Zadoù " au stade de France

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVtswmhmcxs - Katherine Jenkins sings " Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau " in Wales

As you can hear : the melody is the same [ Glan Rhondda / The Banks of The ( River ) Rhondda ] and what you may not realise is that this is the same anthem in both Breton and Welsh - " The Old Land of My Fathers " - which written in 1858 ten years after the Republicans in Wales decided to not pursue a third attempt to fight their way out of The United Kingdom : 1848 was " The Springtime of The Nations " in which there was The Third French Revolution which was successful and a rash of unsuccessful insurrections right the way across Europe trying to imitate the successful Belgian Revolution of 1830 ... In the wake of the disastrous collapse of International Republicanism in 1848 the Republicans in Europe were being heavily repressed and reteated into cultivating the idea of The Nation State in which they pursued their politics by cultural means trying to teach the idea of breaking up The Austrian Empire into Austria and Hungary etc and of building up fragmented polities into the unified nation states that we now know as Italy and Germany.

The emphasis which Nationalist Republicans put upon a national identity had the unfortunate effect of undoing all of the progress made in The Enlightenment of integrating The Jews in Europe into public life : all over Europe the idea of the nation state demanded conformity to new ideals about what it meant to be e.g. French. In France this led to the notorious Dreyfus trial and the seeds of what led to Fascism, Nazism and Falangism etc began to take root everywhere in the latter part of the 19c and as a consequence antisemitism was given a new intellectual respectability by the idea that not conforming to the idea of what it meant to have a French identity meant that a Jewish person was not patriotic ... As a result of the same political argument it followed that the seeds of Zionism were sown by the same wind and it took root in the ideas that The Jews were also a nation and that they also had a homeland ... A People without A Land for A Land without A People ... The Zionists were ridiculed at first by both the religious and political leaders of The Jews in Europe but after a series of unhappy events The State of Israel was born in 1948 - one hundred years after the 1848 revolutions failed.

The Middle East had not been unaffected by the events in Europe in 1848 and European powers - especially France and Britain - had been putting The Ottoman Empire under external pressure for centuries already whilst Nationalist Republican ideas had begun circulating within it after 1848 and eventually inspired The Young Turks to overthrow the fragmenting empire which arguably simply fell apart from the action of these combined forces. The British and The French divided The Middle East between them and The Balfour Declaration had already been made in 1917 after The British had thrown The Ottoman Empire out of what was to become The Mandate of Palestine. Having also made promises to The People in Palestine in return for their support The British found themselves confronting not a bunch of illiterate peasants on camels but some of the most educated civil servants of the time complaining bitterly that The Ottoman Empire had never ever conducted its government in such cavalier ways as The British Empire did. However as a politically educated and cultured elite they had longed for a modern progressive government organised upon Republican principles ...

... The British Empire had a rather negative attitude towards Republicans having fought with them both at home and abroad for over three hundred years and recently having had a lot of trouble with them in South Africa, Ireland, Australia and India and ... well - frankly it was bad enough having to share The Middle East with The French who typically enthused about their own version of Republicanism but then they also ate frogs' legs and kept on insisting that The Battle of Waterloo had been a draw whereas The Americans' version of Republicanism was at least tolerable although their abuse of The English Language was not ... The Civil Servants in The British Mandate of Palestine therefore decided to be patient and helpful and politely asked whether The British Empire might repair the railway lines which they had destroyed and help to otherwise clear up the mess and get the economy working again : Palestine used to get a lot of tourists before the war and ... well - yes ... of course - quite a few of The Jews in Europe and America had already visited and ... well - yes ... of course - if they bring their money with them and have suitable skills useful for us ...

... Meanwhile back in Europe in the aftermath of World War One there was the beginning of what was going to prove to be a lot of trouble : in Wales three new political parties emerged as The Liberal Party disintegrated in the scandal over Lloyd George having sold peerages to war profiteers - The Labour Party, The Cooperative Party and Plaid Genedlaethol Cymru - the latter was a Nationalist Republican party which in the 1920s briefly flirted with Fascism but after The Second World War it became electable on a pacifist and loyalist platform : the reason why I finish this dodgy piece of Republican history with what has now become Plaid Cymru is that it is part of the story of why four nations share one anthem whilst each give it their own words in their own languages. During The Second World War The People in Britanny were under Nazi occupation and so some of their Nationalist Republicans decided to collaborate in order to bargain for their independence from The Republic in France which afterwards treated them as traitors. Nationalist Republicans in Wales and Cornwall then developed links with those in Brittany when the National Republicans in France set about destroying the Breton language and erasing their cultural identities.

[ Post Script - I am not saying that Nazism is equivalent to Zionism which is basically Corporatism dressed up in Jewish clothing - in The Model I devised the body politic progresses away from the Res Publica in that direction via - ]

( value in ) The Model ~ (00) Republicanism ~ (-1) Corporatism ~ (-2) Falangism ~ (-3) Fascism ~ (-4) Nazism ~ (-5)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

There are several translations of " Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau " in various European languages but four nations share the melody and use it for their national anthems as a celebration of both their international solidarity and their cultural diversity - as small nations struggling to survive and thrive ... and whilst it may jar the reader that as a political theorist I am not so worried about mid 19c Nationalist Republicanism having had Nazism and Zionism as its offspring - nor am I worried that Nationalist Republicans in Wales and Brittany flirted with Fascism - I would like to point out that the origins of this project lay in my Internationalist Republican " Liberal Left " sentiments : to propose - or at least speculate about - that those of us who want to stand together on demonstrations about the Israel-Palestine situation might devise something which represents The Peace Movement for Israel-Palestine which wants to bridge that gulf between the two sides. It was a lovely sight to see Israeli and Palestinian flags carried together in the demonstrations in Tel Aviv recently against The Nation State Law ... but what if there were a shared flag, a shared vision : a shared anthem ?

[ I KEPT PLAYING WITH CAPITALISING THE PHRASES " The Land " and " The Sea " and " The Muse " because I myself emphasise them in singing the song but now I HAVE GIVEN UP ON GETTING MY CHOICE OF WORDS RIGHT : YOU CAN LEARN THE TUNE AND DECIDE UPON YOUR OWN WORDS ... THE TITLE IN HEBREW OF COURSE IS " הארץ " AND IN ARABIC IT MIGHT BE " الأرض " ]

THE INTERNATIONAL ANTHEM " THE LAND OF MY FATHERS " - MODIFIED FOR THE USE OF THOSE CAMPAIGNING FOR BOTH PALESTINIANS AND ISRAELIS ... IN THE HOPE THAT THEY MIGHT SING THIS TOGETHER IN BOTH HEBREW AND ARABIC ...

[ The melody is Glan Rhondda - as used for " Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau " and " Bro gozh ma zadoù " and " Bro Goth Agan Tasow " and " Gwlad Newydd Y Cymry " - and here are three examples : it seems that female singers are now being chosen to sing these anthems at international rugby matches.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVtswmhmcxs - Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau ( Welsh National Anthem ) singer Katherine Jenkins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzckoZ3v_gQ - Bro Gozh Ma Zadoù ( Breton National Anthem ) as sung by Nolwenn Leroy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wcuwDXFS5Y - Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau ( Welsh National Anthem ) an orchestral rendition


[ - GLAN RHONDDA - ]

The Land !

Land ! - Land ! - We will still plead for - the land !
Whilst the sea remains a wall to our pure beloved muse -
May all of our voices - enthuse !

Ancient home of our families : you are dear unto me !
The land of poets and singers who made famous for thee :
Many virtuous peoples who were patriots so brave -
For these freedoms their lives' blood - they gave !

Land ! - Land ! - We will still plead for - the land !
Whilst the sea remains a wall to our pure beloved muse -
May all of our voices - enthuse !

The Land of high mountains - the minstrels' paradise !
Your valleys and steep slopes are so fair to my eyes :
Through our love for this country we will soon at peace be -
By these streams and those rivers - the sea !

Land ! - Land ! - We will still plead for - the land !
Whilst the sea remains a wall to our pure beloved muse -
May all of our voices - enthuse !

If even foul enemies steal the land beneath my feet !
These voices of our families will not declare defeat :
Their muse can not be silenced by any traitor's hand -
Whilst this anthem still unites us - we stand !

Land ! - Land ! - We will still plead for - the land !
Whilst the sea remains a wall to our pure beloved muse -
May all of our voices - enthuse !

dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !

Now please stop tinkering with it you fool ... 05.25 am on Monday 03-09-18 ... 13.40 pm ... 17.55 pm ... You do know that God recreated me as an atheist ? ... Oh yes She did ... and then told me to email this over to Ha'aretz ...


http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=6801#6801

same post on the other thread - http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=6802#6802


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[ PROGRESSIVE MULTIPLE VERSIONS OF THIS POST APPEARED - KEEPS HAPPENING ]

Whilst I am on this thread ... I took a break to listen to a Coltrane track and there was a whole column of other jazz tracks offered by youtube and then bizarrely this was amongst them - and frankly I was cracking up laughing at the idea that a bunch of Jacks ( = slang for the fine upstanding citizens of Swansea whose football team has an unfortunate relationship to Cardiff's ) ... according to this woman The State of Israel would not have come into existence were it not for the fervent prayers over eleven days of a bunch of the finest outstanding citizens of Jackland who were evangelical Christians who wanted the prophecies which they found in Y Beibl to come true ... and she goes on to argue that God is evangelising The People in The World with the same message by personally visiting them in their dreams ... oh dear ... I do not want to be too cruel about this : there is a role for the imagination in politics but the trouble with such a fine aspiration as to rebuild that shining city upon a hill is that they usually involve putting a bulldozer through other people's lives in order to get far enough to lay a foundation stone for it ... I enjoy playing with idea that Y Cymry are The Unlucky Thirteenth Tribe of Israel - the ones which lost their way etc - but I am very wary of the reality of The Moses Syndrome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh78f7iWr9w - Amazing Link Between Israel & Wales - praying for UN resolution 1948 - 06.00+

Re : bulldozers - I found some footage showing the houses being bulldozed at 02.55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SAyPksdbJA - The Western Wall - The Liberation from the Jordanians at 1967. Jerusalem

The fact that Jerusalem, Jews, Israel etc are the subject of fantasies does not help -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NHzudvJ-JA - Prophecy Fulfilled On June 7, 1967

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR-8pmLBStA - Did God Help Israel During The Six Day War ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpZ9xUkgO3k - Strange Heavenly Signs Occurring Around Israel and Jerusalem

- there are of course loads of them and whilst they ought to be of no consequence and ignored they influence people if only to the extent that people waste their time watching them and ... OK ... I will go to bed now ... English language Palestinian stuff is difficult to find ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaxoBeA-8Jo - Declassified 1967 documents a ‘premonition’ of Israel’s treatment of Palestine

... I have begun to wonder whether Google is manipulating the results or perhaps this new capacity to wage cyber warfare developed by Israel is being used to fix youtube and ... no : I ought not to joke - they are doing this apparently i.e. planning to attack other countries' internets for the purposes of economic disruption ... oh - Jill Evans visited Palestine ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osocIWakOp4 - Living under occupation: Daily Life in Occupied Palestine

OK ... can not sleep ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW0O0KIfsxs - Palestine Divided | Al Jazeera World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnNI869yOfs - Life in the shadows: Palestinians in Lebanon - Al Jazeera World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc3hYl8aGwc - Settlers, Olives, and Occupation: Voices from the West Bank

... What I am looking for is less stone throwing and more daily life's problems ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z1v0v7S8hA - #borderlines: The West Bank's gridlocked situation | Life Links

... 15 mins into this I am gobsmacked by this Mordachai is saying ... and he bears the surname KEDAR ??? ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwJHG2KSsG0 - Area C - Al Jazeera World

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skimming the news the following day - good information from an Israeli blogger

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/occupation-blindness/


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sleepless ... I put the computer on and read this example of the twisted reasonings which excuse what happened and evade blame for events ...

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-are-palestinian-refugees-different-from-all-other-refugees/

Why are Palestinian refugees different from all other refugees ?

The unique status afforded to Palestinians is the single biggest stumbling block to achieving peace ... This is not to say that Palestinians have had easy lives. They haven’t. It is to say that their leaders, with the complicity of too many, have pulled off one of the most successful spin jobs in history. Rather than resettle the refugees, they have shamelessly exploited them and their descendants. ... Therein lies the irreducible tragedy — and the heart — of a decades-long conflict.

David Harris - the CEO of the American Jewish Committee (AJC)

A prejudiced view of the situation and a shamefully Welsh name as well.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us not dwell upon the negative for a mo - this is more encouraging : Rawabi -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIVM0ZS7ls8 - A Planned City for Palestinians in the West Bank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMNj_l9s85w - Rawabi: Building A Palestinian Nation Through Entrepreneurship | Forbes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrkEguP-zMs - First planned Palestinian city nears opening after Israel OKs water access

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8AFJ_VH4Ko - Lights On! Planned Palestinian City Welcomes First “Rawabians”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a73c7sSnEig - New Palestinian city rises with sleek homes, boutiques

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdLWg8j853w - Rawabi, a new city for Palestine ( 2017 )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otGAcXjH3yc - Rawabi, promised Palestinian city - VPRO documentary - 2012

... er ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2f4F1LFyE8 - DIARY ·· DAY 5 / RAWABI, A CITY WITHOUT PEOPLE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh3rovRIJac - Advice You Don't Want To Hear: Palestine | Rawabi ( US Comedienne )

... actually it looks very nice ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkfi--lsRAQ - Rawabi city inaugurates Q Center

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NivDGycCjI - Weekend in Palestine ATV Rawabi

Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZmoD4hxrX4 - How We Roll FREE PALESTINE!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I emailed the " Haaretz " ( = " The Land " ) newspaper with a letter about the translation of " Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau " and I make occasional contributions to " Talk " pages on Wikipedia so I posted " The Land " there also so that it is made available and then perhaps something will result from my week's work ... this is the explanation which I just wrote on Wikipedia -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is causing the page to expand sideways so I am breaking it into three

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hen_Wlad_Fy_Nhadau#%22_The_Land_%22_-

_a_%22_free_translation_%22_of_Hen_Wlad_Fy_Nhadau_:_the_purpose_

was_to_provide_a_shared_song_for_peace_activists_in_Israel_and_Palestine_and_their_supporters

" The Land " - a " free translation " of Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau : the purpose was to provide a shared song for peace activists in Israel and Palestine and their supporters

I was using the translations into English on this wikipedia page whilst I spent the past week pushing and poking these words around : what I had in mind is the chorus of " Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau " starting with " Gwlad ! Gwlad ! " which of course is the contended matter between the Israelis and Palestinians who can be portrayed as being potentially united by their love for " The Land " but are divided against each other in their jealous need to possess it exclusively ... OK ... they are not quite like that - but if they viewed themselves as belonging to " The Land " instead of seeking to make it belong to them they might find a thing which they can agree upon in caring for it together. I also bowdlerised the sentiments a bit replacing " warriors " with " peoples " to tone down the militarism - and " fathers " with " families " to remove the patriarchy from the scene in order to make it more mother and child friendly ... In the second verse I tried to paint a picture of the poet stood upon the high mountain top surveying the landscape sweeping down to the sea.

The sea of course is a motive in the second line of the chorus " Whilst the sea remains a wall to our pure beloved muse - " but if I introduced the idea of a single language to defend in the context of the controversy over Arabic being recently demoted from its status as an officially recognised language that would set up a contest between Hebrew and Arabic speakers so I chose " voices " in this song. In the third line of the chorus " May all of our voices - enthuse ! " I was searching for words to rhyme the second and third lines and yet was trying to avoid any direct reference to a god which identified this or that religious group which the idea of " our pure beloved muse - " seemed to serve to avoid but then everybody is encouraged to have voices which " enthuse " i.e. which are full of godliness.

In the third verse I chose to address the point of contention : both sides in the conflict fear the other side will seize all of the land - but even if they lose the ground beneath their feet " The Land " is still their muse and in speaking to their hearts can not be silenced. The idea is that Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau being already sung in three languages by four minority nations can then be used like the Internationale which has multiple language versions in which the sentiments may differ slightly but everybody in singing their own nation's version can hear from the melody that every other nation is singing the same song and subscribing to the same sentiments. Imagine an Israeli and a Palestinian singing this song in front of each other : they both subscribe to these sentiments and so they are confronted by the fact that they could be united in their love for " The Land " but are in fact divided by their jealousy for " The Land." I like the potential ambiguity within these sentiments : but will the Israelis and Palestinians unite - or fight ?

http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=6768#6768

I actually wrote quite a lot about my thoughts there what I thought about the situation and this afternoon I set it out for others thus -

THE INTERNATIONAL ANTHEM " THE LAND OF MY FATHERS " - MODIFIED FOR THE USE OF THOSE CAMPAIGNING FOR BOTH PALESTINIANS AND ISRAELIS ... IN THE HOPE THAT THEY MIGHT SING THIS TOGETHER IN BOTH HEBREW AND ARABIC ...

[ The melody is Glan Rhondda - as used for " Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau " and " Bro gozh ma zadoù " and " Bro Goth Agan Tasow " and " Gwlad Newydd Y Cymry " - and here are three examples : it seems that female singers are now being chosen to sing these anthems at international rugby matches.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wcuwDXFS5Y - Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau ( Welsh National Anthem ) an orchestral rendition


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzckoZ3v_gQ - Bro Gozh Ma Zadoù ( Breton National Anthem ) as sung by Nolwenn Leroy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVtswmhmcxs - Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau ( Welsh National Anthem ) singer Katherine Jenkins


[ - GLAN RHONDDA - ]


The Land !


Land ! - Land ! - We will still plead for - the land !

Whilst the sea remains a wall to our pure beloved muse -

May all of our voices - enthuse !


Ancient home of our families : you are dear unto me !

The land of poets and singers who made famous for thee :

Many virtuous peoples who were patriots so brave -

For these freedoms their lives' blood - they gave !


Land ! - Land ! - We will still plead for - the land !

Whilst the sea remains a wall to our pure beloved muse -

May all of our voices - enthuse !


The Land of high mountains - the minstrels' paradise !

Your valleys and steep slopes are so fair to my eyes :

Through our love for this country we will soon at peace be -

By these streams and those rivers - the sea !


Land ! - Land ! - We will still plead for - the land !

Whilst the sea remains a wall to our pure beloved muse -

May all of our voices - enthuse !


If even foul enemies steal the land beneath my feet !

These voices of our families will not declare defeat :

Their muse can not be silenced by any traitor's hand -

Whilst this anthem still unites us - we stand !


Land ! - Land ! - We will still plead for - the land !

Whilst the sea remains a wall to our pure beloved muse -

May all of our voices - enthuse !


dai repwblic = Dai Saw = David B Lawrence : the author asserts his moral right - not to sue for copyright !


[ WHICH IS THE WAY THAT ASSERT THAT I WANT YOU TO CITE ME AS THE AUTHOR - BUT I DO NOT SUE FOR COPYRIGHT ] DaiSaw (talk) 18:19, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

... and the following is the rather scrappy email which I wrote to Haaretz -

From: David B Lawrence
To:
Sent: Monday, 3 September 2018, 22:10:51 GMT+1
Subject: Fw: X " The Land " - finished or abandoned ? - a translation of the internationalist anthem " Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau " for those campaigning for peace in Israel and Palestine

Haaretz Letters,

Dear Editor,

I culled this email address from

http://www.takeapen.org/israel/media_I.html#HaaretzEng

because your contact form did not appear to work for me when I attempted to use it.

I had a private project to translate " Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau " into English this past week.

When I finished my translation I entitled it " The Land ! " and then thought " Haaretz ! "

I think you might be interested in organising a competition to translate it thus ... but ...

My idea is for you to ask for two versions : a mutual anthem in both Hebrew and Arabic.

I am asking whether Haaretz might assert the equal dignity of these native languages.

I wrote you a longer email below : I laid out " The Land " below that - in bold indigo.

Incidentally - I like to write a lot : as an editor you can read - as much as you please.

Yours Sincerely

David B Lawrence

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Forwarded message -----

I held off sending this email whilst I tinkered once again with the words : it will be finally sent from my " religious " email address ...


... I keep thinking that " The Land " ought to be sung in a wistful way - whether in Hebrew or Arabic - and not as a triumphant anthem ...


David B. Lawrence


[ The song which I have translated into English as " The Land " is below - in indigo.]

Dear Ha'aretz,

Whilst I am writing to you I would like to mention how The Nation State Law might be perceived by some people in the mosque a short walk away from me - but I will couch it in terms Welsh first : God is obviously Welsh because he speaks yng Nghymraeg o'r Beibl ... Benjamin Netanyahu surely knows that The Nation State Law in slighting the Arabic language is going to be argued to be slighting The Koran and its author Mohammed - and since he obviously speaks in Arabic he thus slights Allah and therefore all Muslims.

I have often speculated about how to unite both the Israeli and Palestinian peace activists with shared symbols and variations upon the idea of a shared symbol, flag or anthem to sing on demonstrations here in The UK and elsewhere have been rolling around in my mind for years. I was very pleased by the show of solidarity which went beyond standing together to protest against The Nation State Law by learning Arabic.

About a week ago I decided that I might try to put this day dream about demonstrators standing together each singing their own language version of a song whose sentiments they both subscribe to and trust that each other are singing the same words to because of their shared song ... The is not an original idea because I know of several songs that have been deliberately contrived in multiple languages and mostly for this purpose ...

... but I am a lousy linguist so I am not going to be able to write convincing versions of the following song in Hebrew and Arabic although I have suitably translated it from the Welsh version ( there are Cornish Breton, Patagonian and other versions.) When I finally sat back after choosing a slightly different title for my slightly different version of " Yr Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau " I burst out laughing and knew that I should send it to Ha'aretz !

" The Land " is the slogan in the chorus of the Welsh version but this is an international anthem like the Internationale where the exact words and sentiments differ according to the purposes of those who want to use it e.g. I substituted " families " and " peoples " for " fathers " and " warriors " and what I wanted were sentiments easily subscribed to but poignantly in the case of Israelis and Palestinians they plead on behalf of The Land.

" Ha'aretz " could invite some poetically competent translators to wrestle with its translations in English, French, German etc as well as the Welsh, Cornish, Breton and Patagonian originals to create some kind of song with common sensibilities in Hebrew and Arabic. On the other hand Ha'aretz could advertise this idea as a competition and in publishing the best translations and renditions sponsor both Hebrew and Arabic performances of it.

I wrote rather too much about the idea once I began to wrestle with my translation and to think about how to stay true to the original sentiments of " Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau " whilst being wary of its 19c " Blood and Soil " Nationalist sentiments ... I am writing this over an email containing commentary upon the associations that I make with it ... I have day dreamed about this being sung to his accordion by Daniel Khan - with pathos.

Yours Sincerely,

David B. Lawrence,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFu0o8NB5Io - Daniel Kahn & The Painted Bird - "Freedom Is A Verb"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that I need to think a bit more about the history which is claimed on the Palestinian side but since that starts more or less when the history is claimed on the Israeli side I was not sure where to start : are we dealing in mythological peoples ? ... Are ghosts throwing stones and firing rockets ? ... Are these angels flying in helicopters and driving tanks ? ... I think not ... I was just about to chill out when one of Gil Shuster's " Ask Project " videos turned up ... he is basically asking questions about whether Palestine ever was a real state with a political history, with rulers in a capital city, a currency, a flag ... so I am now curious as to what the authoritative answers to those questions might be - given that those questioned clearly do not know ... " Corey " ... he might even have a Welsh first name ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHROSSEMzmY - Palestinians: When was Palestine established ?

" When was Palestine founded ? "

Well this is a questioned couched within modern ideas about " The Nation State of Palestine " but this idea really only dates from the middle of the 19c with the rise of Nationalist Republicanism and the failed revolutions of 1848 in Europe which tried to copy the success of the 1830 revolution in what became Belgium as it was broken out of The Netherlands ... But the rather obvious point is that the peoples who did this had to invent the idea of " Belgium " by borrowing the idea for it from a Celtic tribe which had inhabited the area and resisted the Roman Empire ... " The Belgians " consist of two nationalities - the Walloons and Flemings - so strictly speaking it is not what people think a " nation state " is e.g. nor is France solely inhabited by French speaking people but also Breton and Catalan speakers and the Burgundians whose language has died out ... Likewise " Palestine " and " Israel " are ideas drawn from ancient history and any argument from such a premise for possession of the land associated with them is invalid - otherwise The Welsh could claim possession of the whole of England and Scotland and a big chunk of France and possibly Belgium also ... " Palestine " exists as an idea like " Israel " and a " Palestinian " is a person who identifies with that idea : in the 1930s the Zionist immigrants proudly described themselves as " The Jewish Palestinians " ...

" What was the capital city of Palestine ? "

Most of the respondents are asserting that the origins of " Palestine " are in the biblical descriptions of either Canaan or the Philistines who lied in Canaan and claim that Jersusalem was its capital ... well I am writing this off the top of my head ( I may look this up later ) ... to talk of " Canaan " is to talk of a geographical region not a nation state and within it there were several different peoples and apparently these were each scattered amongst the others ... The Israelites were a semitic people returning from a sojourn in Egypt which was a kind of unified state except that it fell apart occasionally and consisted of several peoples and occasionally it extended its rule over Canaan's peoples ... The account of Joshua leading the conquest of Canaan is suspect - hopefully he did not commit genocide - and whilst The Twelve Tribes seized control they probably lived in the same way ... The subsequent history was of The Kingdom of Israel parting ways with two tribes which created The Kingdom of Judah and its capital was ... seized from a previous Canaanite people called The Jebusites who apparently called it Jebus ... who had seized it from a previous semitic people who called it Rushalim - which may mean " Place of Peace " ... but definitely none of these ruled over the extensive country now claimed to be " Palestine " or " Israel " - and none of them were Israelites - whose capital was Samaria - or Philistines whose capital was Ashdod ( which hint hint is my butt of private jokes ) ...

" Who were the rulers of Palestine ? "

Well since I have just argued that both " Israel " and " Palestine " are imagined countries I would deem their rulers to be very nearly imagined too ... yes : several persons are mentioned by the scribes which they paid to mention them ... sometimes they are mentioned in derogatory ways by other people's scribes who describe them as being defeated and dismembered by the glorious rulers of Assyria and Babylon and Persia and Egypt and ... oh ... somewhere like the island of Philistus where there might have been some idle scribe trying to drum up a bit of business by doing a bit of hagiography on the side ... Basically the scenario seems to be either that Canaan had a multiplicity of minor native rulers including e.g. David and Hazael fighting together ... or they all suddenly fell before a foreign empire and then Canaan was ruled by somebody elsewhere ... and that pattern of events continued for thousands of years including The Romans and Byzantines ... The ( early ) Islamic Empire and The ( Crusader ) Christian Empires ... The Ottoman Empire and The British Empire under whom " Canaan " became part of " The Levant " ( yes - I know that there is an Arabic word for it ) and then " Palestine " was used as a label for their new colonial possession by British public school boys who knew this to be the name used of its province by The Roman Empire.

" What was the flag of Palestine ? "

Again this is a question which reflects modern ideas about states : The Roman Empire did not have any flags yet nobody doubts that it existed ... The Romans did have objects which they carried on poles before their armies but flags require light cloth and were not introduced until silk was freely available about 1000CE ... The first flags were military insignia and armies displayed their leader's heraldic banners and there were no flags of a national sort until ships started to fly the flags of their home port's heraldic shields ... Hence cities got flags long before nations : I think that Jerusalem as a Christian Crusader city was given a flag which was hauled down again when the Muslims conquered it - but there was never a flag for the Ottoman province : the Ottoman and British empires had their flags flying over The Levant and The Mandate of Palestine ... however when they were fighting between themselves over it during The First World War a flag very similar to The Palestinian Flag which we know was raised during The Arab Revolt : a red triangle with black, green and white stripes ... not quite the same : and it was designed by Mark Sykes ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sykes

... I am going to go to bed now ... my apologies about your flag guys ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Palestine

On October 18, 1948, the flag of the Arab Revolt was adopted. A modified version (changing the order of stripes) was officially adopted as the flag of the Palestinian people by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in 1964. On November 15, 1988 the PLO adopted the flag as the flag of the State of Palestine.

... Oh - alright then : there is another and more romantic origin for The Palestinian Flag ...

" ... The flag used by the Arab Palestinian nationalists in the first half of the 20th century is the flag of the 1916 Arab Revolt. The origins of the flag are the subject of dispute and mythology. In one version, the colours were chosen by the Arab nationalist 'Literary Club' in Istanbul in 1909, based on the words of the 13th-century Arab poet Safi al-Din al-Hili:

Ask the high rising spears, of our aspirations
Bring witness the swords, did we lose hope
We are a band, honor halts our souls
Of beginning with harm, those who won't harm us
White are our deeds, black are our battles,
Green are our fields, red are our swords.

Another version credits the Young Arab Society, which was formed in Paris in 1911. Yet another version is that the flag was designed by Sir Mark Sykes of the British Foreign Office. Whatever the correct story, the flag was used by Sharif Hussein by 1917 at the latest and quickly became regarded as the flag of the Arab national movement in the Mashriq ... "

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just before I got into bed I reflected that if it had not been for The Arab Revolt in 1916 then The Sykes-Picot agreement could not have been implemented and therefore there would have been no Balfour Declaration in 1917 and therefore no British Mandate in Palestine confirmed in 1922 and so no Jewish immigration on the scale which led to a population sufficient to claim to The United Nations that The State of Israel ought to be founded in 1948 ... The only officially " Palestinian " flag during The British Mandate in Palestine was a naval flag : The Red Ensign with The Union Flag in its canton had a white disc added with the word " Palestine " on it ... but ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mandatory_Palestine

" ... Palestinian Arabs sometimes flew their own flags, often variations of the Flag of the Arab Revolt. In 1929, a discussion was held for a Palestinian national flag and the newspaper Filastin published on its front page a proposal to establish a Palestinian national flag and anthem. Various different flags were proposed, they were mainly based off the Flag of the Arab Revolt but also included the use of crosses with crescents and the color orange. During the 1936–39 Arab revolt in Palestine a group was photographed with a flag similar to the current Palestinian flag but with a crescent and cross as well as Arabic inscription ... "

So I think that anybody can accept that the idea of " The State of Palestine " was not invented after The Second World War but that people were imagining themselves to be living in a state which both themselves and The British Empire were calling Palestine by at least 1929 - and they did not need anybody British to design a flag or compose an anthem for " The Palestinians " ... albeit some of the immigrants - who were describing themselves to their friends back home as " Jewish Palestinians " - were also already imagining themselves to be living in a state which they were calling Israel and designing their own flag - an image of which was published in " Le Petit Larousse Illustré " in 1924 ... a vertically divided blue and white bicolour with a golden Magen David in the middle ... but it might well have been no more than a imaginary paper project until 1934 when it was flown by a short lived shipping company called " Hofiya." ... So : right from their inception in their adherents' imaginations in the 1920s the nation states of " Palestine " and " Israel " were contended ideas even on paper ... What really matters now as then is how their adherents imagine the futures of these nation states not their pasts ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagined_community

An imagined community is a concept developed by Benedict Anderson in his 1983 book Imagined Communities, to analyze nationalism. Anderson depicts a nation as a socially constructed community, imagined by the people who perceive themselves as part of that group ...

Nation as an imagined community

... He defined a nation as "an imagined political community". As Anderson puts it, a nation "is imagined because the members of even the smallest nation will never know most of their fellow-members, meet them, or even hear of them, yet in the minds of each lives the image of their communion". Members of the community probably will never know each of the other members face to face; however, they may have similar interests or identify as part of the same nation. Members hold in their minds a mental image of their affinity: for example, the nationhood felt with other members of your nation when your "imagined community" participates in a larger event such as the Olympic Games.

Finally, a nation is a community because,

" regardless of the actual inequality and exploitation that may prevail in each, the nation is always conceived as a deep, horizontal comradeship. Ultimately it is this fraternity that makes it possible, over the past two centuries, for so many millions of people, not so much to kill, as willingly to die for such limited imaginings "

In other words - all " nations " exist only in our imaginations and so they do not have any objective existence and can not be proven therefore to exist by citing histories - not even " this flag was created about tea time one Tuesday in 4000+BC " - they exist only in the present moment as presently imagined and cease to exist as soon as people cease to believe in them : they evolve and devolve and revolve according to the ideas used to construct them and they can be maintained in the most adverse circumstances such as 1900 years of exile ... and nations tend to be forged by the adversities which lead people to imagine new communities to mutually support and sustain each other ... which is why Republicanism is relevant to The People in Palestine because it advocates Civil Religion -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion

Civil religion is a concept that originated in French political thought and became a major topic for American sociologists since its use by Robert Bellah in 1960. It means the implicit religious values of a nation, as expressed through public rituals, symbols (such as the national flag), and ceremonies on sacred days and at sacred places (such as monuments, battlefields, or national cemeteries). It stands outside the churches, although church officials and ceremonies are sometimes incorporated into the practice of civil religion


Last edited by dai on Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dai



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sort of relevant but dealing in even smaller and more unstable nation states than Palestine -

- can get a free thirty days from - https://newrepublic.com/magazine

The Country Club - What does nationalism mean in a contested state ?

By Daniel Solomon - September 5, 2018

In 1944, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People drew up a list of complaints. The Allied powers had met at Dumbarton Oaks to lay a foundation for the creation of the United Nations. But, in the postwar world that the conference-goers envisioned, the imperial powers would continue to rule over their colonial subjects; the end of the war would not bring freedom for these people. W.E.B. Du Bois, one of the NAACP’s diplomatic liaisons to the conference, pointed out that under these terms “the only way to human equality” would be “through the philanthropy of masters.” He saw in the emergent order the roots of an arbitrary, anti-democratic system of states. Despite the universalist rhetoric of the United Nations’ framers, the great powers would only acknowledge the legitimacy of some peoples, foreclosing that same recognition for others. ... Invisible Countries extends Keating’s thesis that unusual cases can illuminate the major principles in world politics. In justifying his approach, he explains: “I wanted to go to the rare spots on earth where those rules”—of national recognition and territorial integrity—“don’t apply, where the system breaks down.” What these cases show is the contradictions on which the system is built—how, more than seven decades after the UN Charter’s creation, the philanthropy of the masters is as fickle as ever. ...

... As Keating demonstrates, the creation and legitimation of nation-states are subject to the ebb and flow of strategic competition between the world’s strongest states. That is, some national movements just find themselves on the wrong side of the United States, Russia, China, or another Great Power with inviolable global authority. The Republic of Abkhazia, for example, can demonstrate a defined population, territorial integrity, and autonomous governance; however, the US government’s support for the Georgian government makes Abkhazian independence a non-starter. Palestine, the Xinjiang region of western China, and Iraqi Kurdistan each count among the close-shave national movements that follow Abkhazia’s “but for the grace of the powerful” example. ... The power imbalance that Du Bois cautioned against is a defining feature of the community of nations. Whether they are striving for international recognition of their borders, or mobilizing international action to preserve them, the less powerful countries find themselves at the mercy of the international community’s most powerful members and their interests. ...

[ ... THE REVIEW WAS OF INTEREST AND WORTH READING ... ]

Audiobook - free with a trial at Audible

https://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Countries-Journeys-Edge-Nationhood/dp/B07DPS414L

https://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Countries-Journeys-Edge-Nationhood/dp/0300221622

Invisible Countries: Journeys to the Edge of Nationhood = Hardcover – Joshua Keating

A thoughtful analysis of how our world’s borders came to be and why we may be emerging from a lengthy period of “cartographical stasis”

What is a country? While certain basic criteria—borders, a government, and recognition from other countries—seem obvious, journalist Joshua Keating’s book explores exceptions to these rules, including self-proclaimed countries such as Abkhazia, Kurdistan, and Somaliland, a Mohawk reservation straddling the U.S.-Canada border, and an island nation whose very existence is threatened by climate change. Through stories about these would-be countries’ efforts at self-determination, as well as their respective challenges, Keating shows that there is no universal legal authority determining what a country is. He argues that although our current world map appears fairly static, economic, cultural, and environmental forces in the places he describes may spark change. Keating ably ties history to incisive and sympathetic observations drawn from his travels and personal interviews with residents, political leaders, and scholars in each of these “invisible countries.”

Palestine at least remains politically visible even if it has been hidden behind a wall.

Multiple copies of this post appeared again as I worked upon it ...
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dai



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://repwblic.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=6822#6822

[ Indirectly relevant ]
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies for my personal identity crisis which took place over on the other thread which focuses on the Israeli side of things which I understand better and know where to easily find material to read about it … The several months of protest in Gaza have not gone unnoticed by me but illustrating it in a creative way to write about is difficult : I am not in the business of providing a news reporting service and nor is there any point in my trying to pose as an authority upon what is going on thousands of miles away … Y Repwblic still has a reason to exist despite its decline but it was not begun or continues to be in the business of solving the problems of anybody who lives a long way away … such as Llanfairpwllgwyngychllantysiliogogogogogogog-off … or Chestow … or … the point is for me that what is happening to the Palestinians is political and it is extreme and therefore illustrative … and therefore the reason to be interested is the same reason as to be interested in the Israelis : both of these societies are de facto one society being riven into bits by political failure after political … their political leaders are not doing their jobs on either side … if only they would sit down for a cup of tea together and talk -

https://972mag.com/gaza-blockade-israeli-activists-solidarity-tea/137698/

By +972 Magazine = Published September 12, 2018 = By Dalit Baum

Gazans invite Israeli activists over for tea

As Israeli soldiers shot at Palestinian demonstrators, Gazan and Israeli activists join each other — on two sides of the fence — for tea, a symbolic act of longing for a day without barriers and aggression.

Last Friday at dusk, I shared a picnic blanket with dear friends, on a country hill, near a beautiful orchard, sipping tea in porcelain cups, mixed with tears and tear gas. … In front of us, we watched how thousands of Palestinian demonstrators marched, as they have done every Friday for over four months now, trying to reach the fence that separates us from them, the fence that seals the 2 million inhabitants of Gaza into the largest open-air prison on earth. We heard continuous shooting, and blasts, and saw the plumes of white tear gas weave into the pillar of black smoke from the burning tires. We heard the sirens of an ambulance, then another, and another, more and more. … Six Israelis, quietly sitting near an orchard and a dirt road, we sipped our tea solemnly as we watched our own military shoot the trapped demonstrators. … Unlike the soldiers, we were invited to be there. We were invited by the Palestinian organizers to share tea with them, to signify our solidarity and our joint hope for a day without fences and killing, a day when all the refugees could return home, to Palestine. …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bezGmQsKtuY [b]- Tea for Return

… Only six of us on that hill, where there should have been thousands. Media crews standing right next to us ignored us completely. We raised high flags, hoping to be seen by the demonstrators. On the phone, they said they could see us, and for a moment, this ludicrous tea party felt absolutely right. ... There were 210 demonstrators injured that day near that fence, including 15 children, and 45 of them by live gunfire. Two teens from the city of Rafah were killed by Israeli snipers: Belal Mustafa Khafaja, 17, and Ahmad Masbah Abu Tuyur, only 16, who succumbed to his wounds on Saturday. May their memory be a blessing. ...
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