Y Repwblic
Conversations with Wales' Republicans : Poblachiaethwyr - Repwbligwyr - Gweriniaethwyr

When did you start beating your wife?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Y Repwblic Forum Index -> Seiat Gwragedd - Women's Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject: gr Reply with quote

Richard Grannon the Spartan life coach, has many helpful things to say. But he does hold people responsible for becoming and remaining the victims of narcissistic abusers.

It's as if abusers are powerless against you if you stand up to them. This is not always true. They can use other people as 'flying monkeys' to attack you.

Richard Grannon himself said that they will attack what they see as weakness, but they will also attack strength. As wise as we are, we can't always remain unscathed.

Do you think people in Zimbabwe, Russia and the USA are able to avoid the diktats of their narcissistic leaders simply by having the right mental attitude? No, of course they can't.

I remember it used to be fashionable for people to deflect moaning about the difficulties of life with the cliche, ''Life is what you make it.''

But this is only partly true. You can take reasonable precautions, but you can't control the course even of your own life. You may feel you are in control but something can always come along and knock you sideways.


Last edited by marianneh on Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: gemma Reply with quote

I glumly looked up instances of people who had been murdered by those they thought were their friends. I found an article which mentioned five people who had suffered this fate. One was a university lecturer.

The case that really stood out was that of Gemma Hayter who had a rare congenital condition that meant she was cross eyed and had learning difficulties. She did look quite nice. She loved animals.

She had so called friends who ripped her off. She would tell people she had a boyfriend in prison. At least one neighbour thought this was a fantasy, but then Gemma said she had to give him money all the time so they could set up a house together. This was a real person who was ripping her off.

She had her boyfriend's name tattooed on her arm followed by 'STD.' She thought it was part of his name. She didn't understand when people were taking the mickey.

Five people who had been ripping her off, under the guise of friendship, turned on her, forced her to drink urine, killed her and left her body on
unused railway lines.

At the trial they were larking around and laughing. They called her 'that thing.'

On the message board, somebody commented that a mother had been reduced to tears when somebody said her autistic son should be in an institution so normal people wouldn't have to look at him.

Everyone was disgusted, but one contributor actually thought Gemma should have been in an institution for her own good, declaring that this case proved that care in the community doesn't work.

But, as Katherine Quarmsby said, institutions were mostly places where disabled people were abused by the staff. In any case, you might as well say children should be locked up to protect them from paedophiles. It is the guilty who should be locked up.

Care in the community hasn't worked because, in reality, it means no care in the community.


Last edited by marianneh on Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: hate crime mate crime Reply with quote

A group of young people with Aspergers, spoke of their 'Tuesday friends.' They didn't see them on any other day. Tuesday was the day they had their benefits.

Their 'mates' would march them to the cashpoint to withdraw what had gone into their accounts. Then they would frog march them to the pub where they helped them spend it.

I don't understand how these abusers of the vulnerable can live with themselves. But I can't understand how Damian Green can live with himself either.

Disability hate crime now often takes the form of mate crime. I'm especially thinking of Steven Hoskins who had learning difficulties. His mates marched him to a viaduct, made him hang off it and then stamped on his fingers so that he had to let go and fell 100 feet to his death.


Last edited by marianneh on Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject: Della and Sian Reply with quote

So what point am I trying to make? Is it that I am the victim of mate crime as a variant on disability hate crime? No, actually. I am a bit disabled and have some vulnerabilities, but I don't think that was a relevant factor at all.

On the other hand I have heard how Della and Sian have a bit of fun with a pub mate I have been calling Debbie. Debbie has cerebral palsy so she has very little control over her body. I've heard that Della and Sian enjoy getting her drunk until she is even more floppy and helpless than usual.

They are taking the Mickey Bliss. They find it amusing to see her head flop forward. Debbie is all there. She knows what they're doing and has no illusions about them. But if she's already a bit merry when she meets them, her defences are down.

This is not a trivial thing. I remember Christy Brown who wrote 'My Left Foot.' He had the same condition, and he choked to death on food because of his lack of bodily control, and that was when he was sober.

How could I ever have thought of Della as a friend? I don't know, but I didn't find out about the Debbie scenario - assuming it is accurate - until I had already split up with Della.

I wouldn't advise anyone to get drunk in Della's presence. You won't be on guard!


Last edited by marianneh on Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:11 pm    Post subject: ano Reply with quote

When the medical problem is in the head, it is sometimes the 'afflicted' person who is dangerous. I've just read an article by a woman who had always looked out for her best friend at university who had emotional problems and an eating disorder.

On at least one occasion, the 'best friend' became verbally abusive and tried to cut her throat with an electric gadget. I wasn't too surprised. I had big problems too, at university, with a detrimetnal student who had an eating disorder. Perhaps this is a common experience.


Last edited by marianneh on Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:40 pm; edited 5 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: insurance Reply with quote

We're quite used to the idea of domestic violence and murder between spouses and partners. We're wrong footed when it happens in a platonic 'friendship.'

In fact, disabled people are particularly at risk in romantic relationships. I am not Jac o' the North. I don't object to disabled people having girlfriends or boyfriends or sex or marrying. But the level of risk of abuse may be as high as 50%.

And people so often think you must be a saint if you have a disabled partner! I have heard that disabled women are not permitted in women's refuges to this day, and it is on the hoary old grounds that it would breach the insurance terms and conditions. Perhaps someone can let me know if the situation has changed.


Last edited by marianneh on Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: rod landman Reply with quote

A woman with learning disabilities might think a man who is abusing her is her boyfriend. He might say,''We're in a relationship. If you have sex with other men, we'll be able to buy stuff.''

The situation is going to worsen now that the government is taking all disabled people's money away from them on the grounds that they don't really eixist. Out of desperation they may turn to anyone they think might support them.

People with learning disabilities rarely have many friends. They're not usuallly fussy. Rod Landman says that they will often accept any old crap to be able to say they have friends.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:07 pm    Post subject: dell Reply with quote

On the way to a class last Saturday, I saw one of Della's ex-boyfriends. He said she was busy 'unmaking' friends, and few now had any illusions about her. She was using sex to manipulate men. He thought this 'immoral.'

He mentioned that the nicer you were to her,and the more intimate you became with her, the more she would hurt you and harm you. I pondered that there must be a deep psychological reason for this.

He said it was because 'Daddy left her when she was three' to have an affair with a fifteen year old girl, and never came back. She had been punishing the whole human race ever since.

Once she became intimate with someone, she had to sabotage the other person.She had a fear of abandonment. But she made it inevitable by abandoning the other person first.

As an adult adoptee, suffering from the primal wound, I sometimes do the abandonment thing, but that's as far as I go. I don't knife the other person as well.

It looks as if Della has repetition compulsion but in reverse. Sean said she was her own worst enemy. ''Not while I'm alive, she isn't!'', I joked. But, of course, she is.

Only the other day, another person who has been on terms of sexual intimacy with Della, told me it is still possible for me to resume what I had thought of as my friendship with Della.

I'm not that crazy. I've seen the light.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: compassion my enemy Reply with quote

Until the day before yesterday I thought I would never forgive Wyane Flamenco for savaging Dai and me in the staircase incident, an action on a par with shouting ''Fire!'' in a crowded theatre. Without making physical contact, you are liable to cause mayhem and carnage by chasing people downstairs brandishing your fists.

My partner has generally forgiven those who have ripped him off. Thinking of Wayne, he said to me, ''Have pity on him'', referencing his fantasy world in which he is well in with the Duchess of Devonshire.

The other day, he said, ''Oh darling, I don't think he intended to hit you!'' It is quite remarkable, but yesterday, I was flooded with an immense wave of compassion for Wayne.

I had been thinking that I would forgive my children for this sort of behaviour or any other,because they are my children, but Wayne was not my son, I didn't love him and I didn't feel maternal towards him.

It's really awful but yesterday, I began to feel maternal towards Wayne. I don't see this as a good thing. These feelings are suicidal if you don't keep them under strict control.

I have no reason to think his feelings for me have altered. He is fragile and pitiable but also dangerous. Richard Grannon would say that feeling compassion for him is inappropriate.

You must avoid these people. You have to protect yourself. They need help, but leave that to counsellors. And I have reason to believe that even a counsellor gave up on Wayne in despair.


Last edited by marianneh on Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: mae bys Marianne wedi gwella? Reply with quote

Last Saturday, the Cambria Band stood at the gravesides of our matyred dead in Llanelli, while we sang rather mournfully, ''Mae bys Marianne wedi brifo'' etc, followed by 'Mae Hen Wlad fy Nhadau.' Tim Evans raised his clenched fist in a salute as we sang, ''Gwlad! Gwlad!'

There has never been an apology for the Llanelli democide. John Lowles MBE tried to justify it in 2011.

It was his primitive pride speaking. So it is with Jac o' the North. If you point out his mistakes, however politely, he goes ballistic and calls you names. If Della wrongs you, she has to follow up her attack with character assassination, thus seeking to displace the responsibility from her to yourself.

I had spoken about Wayne Flamenco to an old friend. I also recounted the story in a conversation in Welsh with somebody who adjudicates at eisteddfodau.

I was concentrating so hard on my grammar that I didn't even notice that he looked deeply shocked. Other people had to tell me that later.

Both these men knew Wayne Flamenco of old, and would not have thought him capable of this act of savagery. But they knew he was still feeling badly about his ex wife and that he had to look after his mother who now had Alzheimer's Disease. I had not been aware of that.

Wayne does have some self knowledge. He says himself that he is not a natural carer. Also on his 65th birthday, just hours before the notorious incident, he remarked on Facebook that he could hardly believe that he was now of pensionable age. He still felt like a naive 20 year old.

The two gentlemen met him to tackle him about his heavy drinking mixed with anti-depressants and other prescription drugs. They had a word in his 'shell-like' as they put it about how he should cut down, as drugs made him lose control, with special reference to how I had been terrified his punches were going to catapult me down the stairs.

As they saw it, I had 'been in the wrong place at the wrong time.' I was told in a pizza restaurant on Friday that he had said, ''I'm sorry I did that.''

You might say that that was the least he could say. But it is more than Tristan would ever have said. He is famous for never apologising in his life. Dafydd would say, ''Never apologise. It's a sign of weakness.''

I don't know about that. Foreigners do find it irritating that a Briton will apologise if you stand on his foot. But sometimes, accepting responsibility confers a gift of grace on the other person.

I feel as if a cloud has lifted. Can I even say, ''Mae bys Marianne wedi gwella''?* I can't literally forget.

Evolution will not allow you to forget extremely dangerous incidents as you need to be primed agaisnt danger. The event is imprinted on my mind with fear's juices. But there is no bitterness in the memory now.

When Wayne was bragging, no one admired him. But with a little humility, he has gone some way to redeeming himself in my eyes.

Perhaps he does have a soul after all, and is not just a bundle of narcissistic defences. Desmond Tutu was on to something with his Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

*A quote from Sosban Fach, the anthem of Llanelli: 'Marianne's finger is better.' It would be more to the point if it was 'mae enaid Marianne wedi gwella' ie Mrianne's soul is better, but that's not what the song says.


Last edited by marianneh on Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:17 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject: man hands on miery to man Reply with quote

I had dark suspicions about Wayne Flamenco as a husband, in the light of my traumatic encounter. I had suspected that he had been a hypocrite in playing the martyr after his marriage came to an end.

I thought his ex wife was most probably telling the truth about his abusive behaviour after all. I saw my experience as part of a pattern. But perhaps I was wrong. He didn't deny what had happened in my case, at least with friends.

So maybe it really was a one off, fuelled by anti-depressants, tranquilizers and alcohol. Even he would say that his marriage was violent, but he would see himself as the sole victim. He also said to me that his ex wife had been brought up in a home where the children were battered relentlessly.

He said this as if that was part of the explanation. But he also let out in a moment of carelessness to a friend that when he was a boy, his aunt used to beat him.

I made impatient gestures when this was repeated to me. Certain psycho-historians such as Alice Miller tell us that Hitler and Stalin were both beaten nearly to death by their fathers and this was a regular thing. It may even explain what caused Stalin's permanently fractured left arm, about which there have been many confliciting accounts.

But what did it mean in Wayne Flamenco's case? It could have been anything from a single slap that didn't even hurt to sustained life threatening physical abuse. We didn't have enough information.

I remarked that hitting children is wrong, but almost all parents did it in the past. Why should Wayne be singled out for pity? I was told that in this case, it was 'systematic.'

I had the impression that the aunt was long dead or at least that they were not on speaking terms. But a little surfing of the Facebook world showed me that she is not only still alive, but that she and Wayne are outwardly on the best of terms.

Some remarks on genealogy by her husband have convinced me that she must be the aunt in question. Wayne's wicked aunt 'Roxanna' has a comparitvely unusual first name. And lo and behold, Wayne's ex wife is also called 'Roxanna'!

On some subliminal level, did he choose her in the way that Pavlov's dog scratched off a scab so that it could feel the pain again? Think of C S Lewis who was the second son of a mother who died of cancer when he was eight. In late middle age, he married a woman who had two young sons and was dying of cancer.

Roxanna's son Baptiste also has a Facebook page. He uses it to express soppy sentimentality about his children. But Baptiste also used his page to publicise a stupid boastful meme which I have already critiqued on the Aberfan thread.

It involves bragging about how 'I survived lead paint, asbestos in walls, spanking, bullying and all the other stuff that kids of our generation took for granted - yes, even drinking water from a hose pipe. It was the making of us.' He invited readers to click if they agreed.

How stupid can you get? Of course you survived physically or you wouldn't be here to brag about it! Aren't you lucky?

Other kids were not so fortunate. I remember a story in the paper about a boy who committed suicide in the 70s because he was so afraid of facing a caning session he believed he was in for.

Then there was the nine year old boy whose first name, I remember, was Lester. He kept running away from home in the late 70s, and was found dead of hypothermia. Why did he feel the need to do it?

A doctor had written that he had injuries that would have been considered criminal, even GBH, had they not been caused by a mother chastising her son. In that context, the doctor found them acceptable.

Baptiste is using the most ridiculous arse about face reasoning. I think of the exponent of extreme sports who said he had gone sky diving 50 times and had never been hurt. The very next weekend, he crashed to his death.

I heard a group of old sailors outside a pub making stupid and bigoted remarks about foreigners. They went on to lamet how teachers couldn't give children a good belting these days. You weren't even supposed to say anything nasty in case you upset them.

The air was full of exclamations such as ''I agree with you!'' They all agreed that we should upset the little shits. If not brutalised by their upbringing, they were well desensitised.

I read an exceptionally distressing story in the Metro paper recently, about a five year old boy who was beaten to death by his stepfather for losing one of his trainers in the park. It was a detailed, harrowing account, and I am sorry I read it.

In the past, some thought wife beating acceptable; others opposed it partly on the grounds that it is ungentlemanly. Women are generally compartaively small with less magnificent musculature. Is it not cowardly to pick on them?

I did feel a cold chill when looking at Wayne Flamenco's picture on his Facebook page. I wouldn't describe him as burly but he is quite strongly made with a pronounced Adam's apple - and me? Even as women go, I am exceptionaly small and delicate.

No one seems to apply the same argument in the case of children. But in general, children are much smaller and weaker than adults. The awful story about the five year old boy continues to haunt me.

This has convinced me that the state needs to send a clear message to benighted adults that child beating is not acceptable either.


Last edited by marianneh on Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: sosban fach Reply with quote

My adoptive father came out with a lot of nonsense about how schoolboys were treated when he was growing up in Llanelli in the 1920s and 30s. If they saw a teacher in the street and didn't touch their caps in respect, they would be for it when they next went to school.

They knew there was always a cane in pickle for them. He ranted ''We had it all the time, and backhanders too! It didn't do us any harm!'' I wanted to say, ''Yes it has, you stupid wanker! You just can't see the harm it's done you, but the rest of us can.''

Schoolboys must have changed a lot in Llanelli in one generation. In 1911, two weeks after the railway strike and democide, the schoolboys of Llanelli went on strike.

They came back from the summer holidays to find their hours of work extended and their breaks curtailed. The last straw was when some of them 'were caned rather severely' as John Edwards put it. They walked out of school, marched round the town singing 'Sosban Fach' and making speeches.

They spoke to their friends in other schools and brought them out as well. One boy was saying, ''I have to organise the revolution.''

The school strikes were put down brutally in Llanelli itself, but spread like a flame through the UK and jumped the Irish Sea. By the time they reached Hull, the children were demanding wages for schoolwork and free pencils. I have heard that a school in Norfolk stayed out until 1939!


Last edited by marianneh on Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:48 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: a true diamond Reply with quote

One problem with banning parents form hitting their children at all is that children can indeed be exceptionally annoying and irritating and even cruel. John Diamond wrote that he had signed a petition in favour of protecting children form parental violence. Almost immediately afterwards, he hit his son Bruno. Bruno had been bullying his sister.

'' Am I signing a petition against people like me?'', he wondered. But there is a difference between a decent person who loses his temper, and the kind of people who wrote to John Diamond with pornographic accounts of how they beat their children. For them it was a hobby, like sampling fine wines.

Good people who sometimes lash out in frustration should be treated with leniency, but they shouldn't be given the message that they are actually doing something good or that violence is a valuable disciplinary tool. I would make an analogy with working in a mental hospital.

I've heard forensic psychiatric nurses recount how they had no choice but to hit or restrain a dangerous or confrontational patient. It sounded plausible. I tended to sympathise.

But when you read of the systematic abuse of patients by mental nurses and other staff in the NHS, it is sobering. It changes your perspective.


One obvious analogy with how children are treated is the following. Children are often told that they are being locked in a dark cupboard or whatever the case may be, for their own good. This is, of course, not true.

Similarly, mental patients are told that they are being pumped full of mind numbing drugs for their own good. As Richard Grannon points out, this is not true either.

If the mental nurse was telling the truth it would sound like this: ''We're pumping you full of toxic psychiatric drugs for our own convenience, because you're a pain in the arse when you're jumping on the table, screaming.''


Last edited by marianneh on Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2637

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder what your thoughts on mental cruelty are given that in relationships within the workplace as well as in the family this usually involves merely the threat of violence after a single instance of it. I would remind you that women are not strangers to the use of violence either and not just against children - my opinion of domestic violence is that it is a pattern of behaviour which many compulsively choose to recreate and yet complain about. People are excited by partners who resemble their parents and they do not know how to not behave in these ways - one reason to fear Donald Trump who provides encouragement to others to act upon their impulses - a reason to fear Monocrats because they believe that coercion is the way to obtain what they want which is to rule others and make them do their will indeed every irrstional whim.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: si Reply with quote

I'm afraid Donald Trump is like one of the demagogues who became dictators in the 30s, someone who encourages people to release their most primitive and dangerous urges, instead of controlling them as civilised people have to do.

I've heard that Jim Morrisson who sang 'Light my Fire' was brought up by parents who abjured physical violence as a child rearing tool. Instead they bawled verbal abuse in his face.

How did he turn out? He was one of those celebrities who are members of the 27 Club. That's the age at which he checked out.

Mostly, it's an unrewarding task, trying to work out if verbal and emotional abuse is worse than the physical kind. They tend to go together.

When I was in the first year at university I read in a book on education about a woman who felt the need to address her two year old son thus:

''You're a miserable useless little bugger aren't you John? ''

I can't bring myself to reconstruct more than a line but it was the beginning of a monologue that went on in the same vein interminably.

I was surprised that anyone thought it worthy of note. I thought ''Isn't that how all mothers talk to their infant children then? It was how mine spoke to me! I thought that that's what they were supposed to do!''

My adoptive mother was still at it when I was ten, telling me I was the worst person in the world. Just in case it hadn't sunk in she said, ''There's no one worse than you!'' I was quite confident that this couldn't be true while Idi Amin was alive, but it was wearing.

On one occasion, she was telling me how horrible I was, and I riposted, ''Well, I don't think I am all that bad actually. After all, I'm quite tolerant. I'm not against anyone.'' ''You're against people who are against the Blacks!'', she said accusingly.

I recounted stories about my adoptive parents to Liz Jones Ukip when we were both undergraduates. I just thought they were typical parents. It was she who broke it to me, ''They don't seem to like you much.''

It's obviously not true what kids say to bullies in the playground, ''Sticks and stones may break my bones/But words can never hurt me.'' Of course, words can hurt. But you can get so used to the 'dark sarcasm' in the classroom and at home that you fail to notice.

One of my sons said he would have preferred to have gone to school at the time that teachers were allowed to hit children. It wouldn't be as bad as it is now when they use hurtful words instead.

''They didn't use physical violence instead of insulting us, you fool!'', I burst out impatiently, ''They did both!'' Then I had to feel bad for calling him a fool.

I certainly don't think insults from teachers should be minimised. I heard of a girl whose heart's desire was to go on to the sixth form. A teacher told her she was too stupid for the sixth form. She took this not as a grouchy or sadistic remark from a bad teacher.

To her it was a fact set in stone. She hanged herself before the end of the day.

I can't remember any details now but I remember remembering that my adoptive parents were always picking quarrels- or fights in fact. Any
subject - the most innocuous remark - could be taken by them as the excuse for a major row which often turned violent. If an excuse didn't exist, they would make one up.

Their public personnae were that butter wouldn't melt in their mouths - they were like yearling lambs - but underneath it all, they were a bit crazy. I think one of the reasons they kicked off so much was frustration because they found things difficult to understand.

It was like the terrible twos. But you sometimes had the impression that they were wilfully misunderstanding you.

We do look out for partners who remind us of our parents. So if you get off to a bad start, you will probably have a bad middle and a bad ending too, unless your eyes are opened to the truth.


Last edited by marianneh on Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject: sensitivity and sentimentality Reply with quote

My adoptive parents were sentimentalists. My adoptive mother was the kind of person who boasted of how many times she had watched 'The Sound of Music.'

I recounted at home a story told to me by another student's mother. She had had rheumatic fever as a child and through lack of exercise had gained more weight than she wanted.

She went back to school and found that a nun was taking the class. She told the kids about sobriquets, nicknames that come after the name that monarchs bore in history such as Richard the Lionheart.

She then asked each kid in turn to come up with a sobriquet to describe himself or herself.If they couldn't manage it, she bestowed a sobriquet on them.

The girl who had just returned form illness was too tongue tied to say anything. The nun said, ''Well I can think of a sobriquet for you: Margaret the Fat.''

The upshot was that she cried and cried and never wanted to go back to that school.

When my father heard this, he burst out laughing. He thought it was a good joke.

It sounds harsh but those who are sentimental about childhood can be expected to be cruel to children.

Wayne Flamenco's aunt sends him sentimental messages full of her supposed love. No wonder he made such a bad job at picking a wife.

As for her son, Wayne's cousin Baptiste, he puts up posts that are so fulsome in their luxuriant sentimentality about his children, you could almost think he is protesting too much.

But he's not enlightened about how children should be treated. He's put up some very nasty and cold posts about foreigners, scroungers and social justice.

Baptiste is obviously angry about something. If it's his parents, he can't tell them about it as that would be departing from the happy families script. So he has to look for scapegoats.

I may not be very sensitive to others but even I could see that Wayne was very unhappy about something on the night of his birthday, and I didn't think it had all that much to do with me.

Philip Larkin said:

Man hands on misery to man
It deepens like a coastal shelf
Get out as early as you can
And don't have any kids yourself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:16 am    Post subject: tangent and pause Reply with quote

I could pause here on the subject of Wayne Flamenco. Perhaps Dafydd is right in a sense that you shouldn't apologise. Why abase yourself?

And I'm not at all sure it was an apology anyway. Perhaps all he meant was that he regretted that he'd shown himself up.

If I can make a pedantic semantic distinction between grovelling self abasement and a dignified expression of remorse, the latter is an essential gift after serious wrong doing, and I don't think healing is really possible without it.

Most people who have done seriously bad things don't express regret or if they do, it's insincere and instrumental. The personalities which are sufficiently disordered to make them behave so despicably also make it impossible for them to feel or express remorse.

To speak of forgiveness in the Flamenco context is perhaps a bit overblown. What he did was really dangerous and uncalled for.

I won't put the label forgiveness on what I feel. But I do feel as if I've been given an intangible but valuable gift. It is like healing balm.

Rabbi Jonathan Romain had an article in the Independent expounding that forgiveness has to be earned. Otherwise it is meaningless. In Christianity, we have this awful moral tyranny where forgiveness is held to be compulsory. But if it is not voluntary, it is of no value.

Dafydd turned to me at the end of a science fiction programme and said, ''There's someone who forgave a being who destroyed an entire planet. You can't even forgive someone who yelled at you thousands of years ago.''

He meant the rabid chairman of 'Credo Cymru', who was also the warden of a hall of residence I had the misfortune to be in. I replied that it was a mistake to speak of forgiveness as something you can choose to do. It either happens naturally and spontaneously or it doesn't. It can't be forced.

The Credo Cymru chairwoman had never taken any responsibility. She had lied and lied again, and tried to put pressure on me to say I had been making it up.

When she was wearing her pious hat, she was strongly in favour of compulsory forgiveness for others, but she never practised it. She was a virulent persecutor.

I put it to my adoptive parents that I would not be seeing them again as they had behaved badly once too often. I had been thinking of divorcing them since my adoptive mother said she wasn't going to suppport me if I defended myself against an abusive partner in their house, and then had the cheek to add ''Think about me!''

This was very bad of her as she knew I had had to call the police to restrain his violence more than once. When confronted, she burst into tears, saying ''You hate me then!'' My adoptive father then accused me of making it up and went on to say that I was always doing that.

This was the opposite of the truth. I had just received a letter from an admirer which said how much he admired my 'transparent honesty and the impartial way in which you judge people.' I walked out, and that was that.

In the case of Della, she rejected me and humiliated me, but I didn't feel too bad about it. I thought reconciliation was a possibility. But it was when I heard that she had put around a story that I had dissed her and she was feeling very hurt but hoped it could be resolved, that reconciliation became impossible.

I understand from other people that if she treats people badly, she always has to follow it up with putting them in the wrong. This may be related to bipolar.

When she was in better mental health, she did take responsibilty for hitting my partner in the face. She confessed this, thinking I was not going to speak to her again, but I was quite genial about it.

She's not able to take responsibility now, and this is what puts her beyond the pale. Some psychologists say that happiness depends on having mature human relationships. Immature relationships are just going to leave you frustrated and with an overwhelming sense of exploitation.


Last edited by marianneh on Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:48 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marianneh



Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 1933

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:44 am    Post subject: bulger Reply with quote

I feel furious that moral tyrants told the parents of James Bulger that they 'must' forgive the two ten year old boys who had murdered their two year old son in a particularly sadistic way. I also think that James Bulger's uncle who said they should be executed, should not even be criticised. Isn't that what we would all say in his place?

But it was disturbing to see the virulent hatred expressed for the boys by adults who were not personally involved. In Liverpool, adults turned out to greet the police van, chanting that they would kill them.

This is what we mean when we say that people who are sentimental about childhood are cruel to children. These boys had punctured the bubble in which the foolish adults existed. They proved that children are not invariably cute angelic, delightful little things.

People seriously seemed to think that it was an aggravating factor that the culprits were children, rather than going to mitigation. Yet logically, it would have been much worse if adults had done it. They would have been old enough to know better.

The boys were tried by a jury of adults which was wrong. You are supposed to be tried by a jury of your peers. If children are mature enough to be put on trial, why not have children on the jury?

Adults who have endured a good upbringing in which they were kept firmly in line, feel hostile to children in general. If they are asked what should be done to delinquent kids, they often seriously say, ''Hang them!''

When it became fashionable to say that hitting children was a very bad form of discipline, somebody wrote to the papers to condemn this stance as irrational. It is necessary to use force to defeat badness.

If we had had this wishy washy attitude in the 30s, we wouldn't have been able to resist the Nazis.

This individual saw children not as inexperienced and vulnerable people who needed guidance but as repositories of evil, on a par with Nazis. The memes about original sin and imps of Satan have been muted to a degree, but they are still with us.


Last edited by marianneh on Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dai



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 2637

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots to think about there and I think that it speaks to me that warning about our mostly being unaware of the consequences of our own thoughts and behaviour : this has serious implications in political systems such as Democracy which invites its participants to act thoughtlessly and whose electors and elected representatives are not held to be responsible for their actions. In a real political system such as those proposed by various Republicanisms those who make decisions must encounter the facts and arguments about them and be held responsible for their actions. The Revolution takes place in our consciousnesses as we develop our understandings of our society and the lives lived within it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Y Repwblic Forum Index -> Seiat Gwragedd - Women's Forum All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
Page 9 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


© 2007-2008 Informe.com. Get Free Forum Hosting
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
 :: 
PurplePearl_C 1.02 Theme was programmed by DEVPPL JavaScript Forum
Images were made by DEVPPL Flash Games